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Can someone explain to me?  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 07:01 pm
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srossi
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schaumburgstew wrote: I've always found it quite interesting that, even in a worked sport like pro wrestling, you can always see when a wrestler is losing his skills. For example, look at Nick Bockwinkle at the end of his career in the AWA. Absolutely dreadful.

I'm not sure exactly what time period you're referring to but I don't think anyone's ever aged as well as maintained such a high level in wrestling as Bockwinkel, including Flair after the early '90s.  Bockwinkel was tremendous up to the very nd, as his 60-minute draw with Curt Hennig in late 1986 illustrates.  He might have lost something at the very, very end, like his last handful of matches in '87, but he was amazing up until almost his last match from what I've seen.



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 Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 07:29 pm
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khawk
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schaumburgstew wrote: This is quite an interesting thread so I thought I'd make a few comments.
 

I've known this guy via e-mail for a few years. He has lots of good information and stories to share.

Good to see you here, Stewart. Welcome aboard.

 

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 Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 07:42 pm
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If his future posts are anything like this one, he has an ally in me. ;)



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 Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 07:45 pm
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freebirdsforever2001

 

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Count Grog wrote: beejmi wrote: Count Grog wrote: Lew Thes = boring
Partially that too that era isn't the best in terms of "action" then you have people fawning all over it

Gorgeous George was colorful, Antonino Rocca was entertaining, the Duseks were a riot.  There were some guys with charisma and flair.  Not all 60 minute arm bar matches.

Nulty & Mask would have a Coronary if They ever heard this.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 10:27 pm
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schaumburgstew

 

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That was a good comment regarding Nick Bockwinkle. He was quite impressive when he wrestled Curt Hennig to a 60 minute draw. But his last AWA run in 1987 wasn't very good. I must admit that he wrestled a good match against Dory Funk Jr. in an old WCW pay per view. I think they went to a 30 minute draw. There was quite an interesting story as to why Lou Thesz never had any use for Buddy Rogers as a wrestler. (Maybe the clawmaster can confirm this, but I believe the only time Rogers ever went over on Thesz was in an early 1950's match that took place in Texas. Rogers regained the Texas title by winning the match.) At any rate, one theory regarding the fact that Thesz didn't like Rogers stems from an event that took place towards the end of WWII. Thesz was in the army and Rogers was the top dog in a wrestling territory at the time. (Sorry, I forgot which territory it was.) Thesz was on furlough and was scheduled to wrestle Rogers over the weekend. Because it was only for one match, Rogers was booked to go over in the match. Rogers picked up Thesz at the train station and they started talked about the forthcoming match. Thesz mentioned that Strangler Lewis was going to be the guest referee. Rogers said something to the effect about why should they have that old has been as the ref. Get rid of him and they'll be more money for us. This infuriated Thesz who told Rogers that, if it hadn't been for wrestlers like Strangler Lewis, Rogers would still be pounding the beat in Camden, N.J. Well Rogers realized that he had made a mistake and told Thesz he was only kidding but Thesz didn't buy the excuse. Thesz had the booker change the outcome to a "broadway" 60 minute draw and during the match, Thesz drove Rogers crazy by wrestling faster and faster and whispering into Roger's ear in German to quicken the pace, etc. I understand that many years later, the two managed to reconcile their differences. Ric Flair may have been a talented wrestler, but he never had the talent and charisma of the original Nature Boy.   

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 Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 10:46 pm
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clawmaster
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Stew,

Thesz disputed that loss to Rogers until the day he died. I kid you not. Newspapers did report Rogers beat Thesz.



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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 12:28 am
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schaumburgstew

 

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Still controversial to this day! When someone asked him about that loss to Buddy Rogers,  he said that it was hard to remember the outcome of all the matches he was in. As some of the other people have reported, Thesz didn't think too much about most of the wrestlers he competed against. Surprisingly, he did say that Gorgeous George was a good wrestler. Indeed, George Wagner did have a strong amateur background. I was surprised when Thesz said that Wilbur Snyder was a great athlete, but not a great wrestler. There used to be a show on in the 50's that was carried by CBS on Saturday afternoons. One wrestling match over the course of the hour show. It was most disappointing that our Chicago affiliate chose not to run the program. Because of the one hour show, the matches were scheduled for a 48 minute time limit. (commercials, etc.) Thesz and Snyder wrestled twice on that show, both times the result was a 48 minute draw. Thesz also wrestled Pat O' Connor to a 48 minute draw on that CBS show. When Wilbur Snyder moved his base of operations from southern California to the Chicago area, he had a famous confrontation with Lou Thesz on the old Dumont wrestling show out of Marigold on Saturday night. The previous night, Thesz had defended his NWA title against Hans Schmidt (Guy La Rose) at the International Amphitheater. The match wound up in a no contest. The next night, at Marigold, Thesz was scheduled to wrestle Ed Farhat (The Sheik) but Farhat was a no show. So Fred Kohler substituted Wilbur Snyder. Thesz at first refused to wrestle Snyder stating that the contract was between him and The Sheik. Then, grudgingly, he agreed to wrestle Snyder but only with a 10 minute time limit instead of 60 minutes. After a few minutes of negotiations, he reluctantly agreed to wrestle Snyder with a 30 minute time limit. And, yes, the match indeed went the distance with a hard fought draw. I remember that Thesz got the "Thesz press" (Thesz simply called the hold a flying body scissors.) on Snyder but Snyder got his shoulder up at the count of two. A few weeks later, in another televised match, Snyder beat Vern Gagne to win the TV title. The end came when Gagne body slammed Snyder several times but Snyder reversed one of them into a small package for the win. Gagne refused to give the belt to Snyder but finally gave it to him in the dressing room. You can watch one of their many rematches on You Tube. Scheduled for one fall 45 minute, it ended in about 32 minutes with a double count out. 32 minutes!!! That's about three weeks of Raw wrestling! (Sorry, guys, I had to throw that one in.) And, by the way, thanks to everyone welcoming me to the board.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 01:52 am
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Portalesman
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wow.  Why has this guy never been invited to the Thez forum?



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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 02:05 am
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clawmaster wrote: Stew,

Thesz disputed that loss to Rogers until the day he died. I kid you not. Newspapers did report Rogers beat Thesz.

I can confirm this. When Thesz was still living in Norfolk, the Virginian-Pilot ran several articles on him and he always denied he ever lost to Buddy Rogers. In one of the articles, the newspaper after another of his denials quipped, "The record books show differently."



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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 03:24 am
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khawk
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Portalesman wrote: wow.  Why has this guy never been invited to the Thez forum?


He probably has been there but his posts in the Thez Forum are buried by Ken Viewers picture threads. Mr. Searchy MIGHT be your friend.

 

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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 03:44 am
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clawmaster
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Stew also posts on the Chicago pro wrestling board. That's the board where I first became acquainted with the Immortal Pete The Pup.



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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 03:47 am
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clawmaster
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As for Thesz, I did see him wrestle for Bruiser during the mid 70s in the Indianapolis based WWA. Lou was collecting a pay check and was putting guys over. His matches were decent.

The best Thesz match I've seen on tape is Lou vs Cyclone Anaya. Track that one down if you can.



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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 08:46 am
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Portalesman wrote: wow.  Why has this guy never been invited to the Thez forum?

The correct question is why other competent Thesz forum users are not here

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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 09:36 am
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freebirdsforever2001

 

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khawk wrote: schaumburgstew wrote: This is quite an interesting thread so I thought I'd make a few comments.
 

I've known this guy via e-mail for a few years. He has lots of good information and stories to share.

Good to see you here, Stewart. Welcome aboard.

 

Just from reading Your posts already, You seem to have a great wealth of knowledge of the old-school. Welcome aboard. It always helps to have the POTY winner backing You up.:tongue:

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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 01:51 pm
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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: khawk wrote: schaumburgstew wrote: This is quite an interesting thread so I thought I'd make a few comments.
 

I've known this guy via e-mail for a few years. He has lots of good information and stories to share.

Good to see you here, Stewart. Welcome aboard.

 

Just from reading Your posts already, You seem to have a great wealth of knowledge of the old-school. Welcome aboard. It always helps to have the POTY winner backing You up.:tongue:

Yeah very interesting stuff indeed.  Welcome x3



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