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WCW leaves the NWA  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 12:05 pm
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HBKperfect23

 

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I need some help understanding the WCWs departure from the NWA and the way the titles worked.

The way I understand it is Mid Atlantic became WCW. WCW was still apart of the NWA. The WCW title and the NWA title were the same? So Shane Douglous threw down the WCW title??? How did the WCW international title come in to play?, Was that title the new WCW title after they departed from the NWA?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 12:18 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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From KKklasics:

Did the NWA title become the WCW title?

NO.

July 7, 1990 - Sting (Steve Borden) pins "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) to win the NWA World title in the main event of the Turner Home Entertainment PPV called Great American Bash '90 from the Arena in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. The match is presented by World Championship Wrestling.

January 11, 1991 - "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) pins Sting (Steve Borden) at the Meadowlands' Brendan Byrne Arena in East Rutherford, New Jersey, USA. In doing so, Flair captures the NWA World title for the eighth time. Also, it is during this reign that Flair is recognized by World Championship Wrestling (a member of the NWA) as the WCW World heavyweight champion, although the NWA World title and WCW World title remain two separate championships. This makes Flair a nine-time World champion overall. The match is presented by World Championship Wrestling.

March 21, 1991 - Tatsumi Fujinami pins "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) at the Egg Dome in Tokyo, Japan. Flair loses the NWA World title, but retains the WCW crown. This match is televised via tape delay on PPV from Turner Home Entertainment and has involvement from two referees, Bill Alphonso and Masa Hatori. The match is presented by New Japan Pro Wrestling.

May 19, 1991 - "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) pins Tatsumi Fujinami at the Bayfront Center in St. Petersburg, Florida, USA to win the NWA World title for the ninth time, thus making him a 10-time World champion. This bout is the main event on a Turner Home Entertainment PPV called WCW SuperBrawl I. The match is presented by World Championship Wrestling.

July 1, 1991 - "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) is stripped of the WCW World heavyweight championship by WCW, Inc.

September 8, 1991 - "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) is stripped by the National Wrestling Alliance of the NWA World title after signing a contract with Titan Sports Inc. (the parent company of the World Wrestling Federation).

August 12, 1992 - Masahiro Chono pins Ravishing Rick Rude (Richard Rood) in the finals of a tournament at Sumo Hall in Tokyo, Japan to capture the NWA World title. The match and tournament are presented by New Japan Pro Wrestling.

January 4, 1993 - The Great Muta (Keiji Mutoh) pins Masahiro Chono at the Egg Dome in Tokyo, Japan to take the NWA World title. This bout is televised via tape delay on a Turner Home Entertainment PPV called the WCW Japan Supershow. The match is presented by New Japan Pro Wrestling.

February 21, 1993 - Barry Windham pins The Great Muta (Keiji Mutoh) to garner the NWA World title at the Civic Center in Asheville, North Carolina, USA as part of a Turner Home Entertainment PPV known as SuperBrawl III. The match is presented by World Championship Wrestling.

July 18, 1993 - "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) pins Barry Windham in Biloxi, Mississippi, USA at a Turner Home Entertainment PPV called Beach Blast '93. In doing so, Flair becomes a ten-time NWA World champion and a 13-time World champion overall (having been recognized as WCW World champion in 1991 and having won the WWF World title on two occasions in 1992). The match is presented by World Championship Wrestling.

1993 - After a legal dispute between the National Wrestling Alliance and member promotion World Championship Wrestling ends in a Charlotte, North Carolina, USA courtroom (with the NWA prevailing over WCW), "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) is stripped of the NWA World title. However, WCW keeps the physical belt which had represented the NWA World title since 1986 and uses it to launch a new brand new title, totally unrelated to the NWA World title, called the WCWI World heavyweight championship.

September 19, 1993 - Ravishing Rick Rude (Richard Rood) pins "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) in Houston, Texas, USA in a match originally scheduled as being for Flair's NWA World heavyweight championship. However, the NWA refuses to sanction this match after a legal dispute with the bout's promoter, World Championship Wrestling (at the time an NWA member). The matter is resolved in a Charlotte, North Carolina, USA courtroom prior to the match with the NWA prevailing over WCW. The NWA then strips Flair of its World title and WCW, after dropping out of the NWA, creates a new title out of thin air, billing it as "the World heavyweight championship as recognized by WCW International." The match is televised on a Turner Home Entertainment PPV and is presented by World Championship Wrestling.

March 16, 1994 - Hiroshi Hase pins Ravishing Rick Rude (Richard Rood) at the Egg Dome in Tokyo, Japan to win the WCWI World title. The match is presented by New Japan Pro Wrestling.

March 24, 1994 - Ravishing Rick Rude (Richard Rood) pins Hiroshi Hase in Kyoto, Japan to capture the WCWI World title for the second time. The match is presented by New Japan Pro Wrestling.

April 17, 1994 - Sting (Steve Borden) pins Ravishing Rick Rude (Richard Rood) at the Rosemont Horizon in Rosemont, Illinois, USA to take the WCWI World title. This makes Sting a four-time World champion (having already held the NWA World title once and the WCW World title twice). The match is presented on a Turner Home Entertainment PPV by World Championship Wrestling.

April 24, 1994 - "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr) pins Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (Richard Blood) at Center Stage in Atlanta, Georgia, USA to win the vacant WCW World title for the third time. This makes him a 15-time World champion, as he had previously held the separate NWA World heavyweight championship ten times and the WWF World heavyweight championship twice. The match is taped for broadcast on WCW Saturday Night, shown on TBS.

May 1, 1994 - Ravishing Rick Rude (Richard Rood) pins Sting (Steve Borden) at the Fukuoka Dome in Fukuoka, Japan to seemingly regain the WCWI World title. However, the title is declared vacant after officials review the tape, which shows Rude knocking Sting out with the title belt to get the pin. The match is presented by New Japan Pro Wrestling.

May 22, 1994 - Sting (Steve Borden) pins Vader (Leon White) to win the vacant WCWI World title for the second time, thus making Sting a five-time World champion overall. The match is shown on a Turner Home Entertainment PPV and is presented by World Championship Wrestling.

June 23, 1994 - "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (Richard Morgan Fliehr), accompanied by Sherri Martel, pins Sting (Steve Borden) in the main event of Clash of Champions in Charleston, South Carolina, USA to retain the WCW World title and win the WCWI World heavyweight championship, thus officially unifying the two titles. This gives Flair 16 World titles, as he had previously held the separate NWA World heavyweight championship ten times and the WWF World heavyweight championship twice. Contrary to popular belief, this match is in no way, shape, or form sanctioned by the National Wrestling Alliance, nor does it have anything to do with the NWA World title. The match is presented by World Championship Wrestling

August 27, 1994 - Shane Douglas (Troy Martin) pins Too Cold Scorpio (Charles Skaggs) in the finals of a one-night tournament at the ECW Arena in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA to win the NWA World title. After the match, Douglas relinquishes the championship, declaring himself the ECW World heavyweight champion. The match and tournament are presented by Extreme Championship Wrestling.


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posted 02-03-2012 04:48 PM                       The NWA now recognizes Douglas as a former champion, but at the time all this was happening they voided the tournament and the "official" lineage went from Flair to Candido.

WCW taped footage of both Flair and Rude as NWA champion at Disney MGM for TV to air several months down the road without getting approval from the NWA board. At the time, Barry Windham was still the official NWA champion. In the midst of the tapings, the NWA sent them a letter informing them that they were not to advertise Flair or anybody else as NWA champion unless they cleared it with the board first and essentially threatened legal action if they did it again. They did approve the title change from Windham to Flair, but refused to approve the title change from Flair to Rude unless WCW agreed to certain conditions, such as allowing Rude to drop the belt (reportedly back to Flair) on a non-WCW show. After receving the letter, WCW continued to have Rude come out with the belt at the Disney tapings, but announced him as only "world heavyweight champion" and not the "NWA champion". They also informed the cable companies carrying the Fall Brawl PPV that they were to advertise the match between Flair and Rude as only a "world heavyweight title" bout and not an "NWA title" bout.

At the beginning of September, WCW officially ceased to be a member of the NWA and on TV went from calling it the "NWA heavyweight title" to just the "world heavyweight title". Even so, the NWA still hoped to reach a settlement with them where they would agree to transition the title from Rude to a wrestler selected by the NWA board on an NWA show. Some of the names thrown around were Road Warrior Hawk, Ted DiBiase, and Terry Funk. If WCW refused to play ball, they had already scheduled a court date where they would look to obtain a restraining order blocking them from promoting the match between Flair and Rude as any kind of title bout on the premise that the belt was synonymous with the NWA title, so even if WCW didn't use the NWA name to advertise it, the perception was that it was still an NWA world heavyweight title match (and it was still billed as an "NWA" world title match in certain segments on their TV up to a week before the PPV due to poor post production that was typical for the promotion).

WCW initially agreed in principle to the NWA's conditions, but then told them that they were afraid that Rude wouldn't agree to do a clean job (one of the conditions was that Rude had to lose the title clean or WCW would have to pay the NWA $100,000 a day in damages). As a counteroffer, WCW told them they would advertise the match as just a "world heavyweight title" bout with Rude winning as planned, but said they would read a disclaimer on the broadcast stating that the match wasn't sanctioned or authorized by the NWA.

Before anything was agreed upon, WCW announced that they were pulling out of negotiations. When the NWA went to court that afternoon and tried to get the restraining order, the judge denied it because WCW provided a bill of sale showing that the rights to the championship belt and goodwill had been transferred from the NWA to WCW. The document also supposedly gave them intellectual rights to use the NWA name, but the judge ruled that they were to refrain from advertising it as such (and poor post prodiction aside, WCW had no intention of doing that. In fact, WCW had sent down a memo to their announcers telling them that they were never to mention the NWA name or letters ever again).

So on the night of the show, Rude won the gold belt and "world heavyweight title", as it was referred to by WCW, but not the NWA title since the NWA didn't sanction or recognize any of this.

A few weeks later, in an odd move, it was announced by Tony Schiavone that WCW recognized WCW titleholder Vader as the sole world heavyweight champion, that the "gold belt" as they began calling it, did not stand for any title recognized by WCW, and that the return match between Flair and Rude at Halloween Havoc would only be for the physical belt itself.

On the night of the PPV, it was announced by Schiavone that they had learned that the gold belt was in fact recognzied as a world title by the "WCW International Board of Directors", designed to be a substitute for/takeoff of the NWA since it was described as a group of international promoters worldwide. After that it came to be described as the "WCW International World title" (since it was recognized by "WCW International") until the belt was finally unified with the proper WCW World title in June 1994.





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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 03:51 pm
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stingmark



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Man that was long & confusing. I have seen Sting listed in places as a 15 time WC. Im obviously not counting his TNA stuff(even though I think he was wc when they were still using the "NWA" in their name initially). I also know he was WWA wc. Ive seen it listed where Sting is listed as a two time "international world champion", the entire thing is completely confusing



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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 04:09 pm
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mike3775



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The problem is, some places recognize the Tatsumi Fujinami title change as an end to one of Flairs reigns, and when he "regained" it, another reign all together, while others do what is listed above, say that they are one and the same as well

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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 04:49 pm
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DJP

 

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HBKperfect23 wrote:
I need some help understanding the WCWs departure from the NWA and the way the titles worked.

The way I understand it is Mid Atlantic became WCW. WCW was still apart of the NWA. The WCW title and the NWA title were the same? So Shane Douglous threw down the WCW title??? How did the WCW international title come in to play?, Was that title the new WCW title after they departed from the NWA?


Shorter, less confusing version.

The NWA was a conglomeration of promoters. Jim Crockett Promotions (Mid-Atlantic) was a member of the NWA.

When Crockett made a push for national expansion, he phased out the Mid-Atlantic name and just began referring to his promotion as "the NWA". With Crockett having control of the NWA championship, combined with the demise of the regional NWA territories, some of which Crockett assimilated into his own company, people began to think that JCP and the NWA were one and the same.

Therefore, when Turner (WCW) bought out Crockett, it was assumed that they also bought the NWA. But they actually didn't because the NWA still had other members besides Crockett, even though they had fallen out of signt.

The remaining members of the NWA eventually resurfaced and informed WCW, which was NOT a member, that they needed to join the organization or else stop using the NWA name and title. To avoid legal action, WCW backed off and joined because they wanted to keep claiming the NWA lineage, but decided that they weren't going to use the name anymore. That's why they started calling it the "WCW" championship because the "NWA" championship was legally controlled by the NWA Board of Directors, and WCW would've had to get the approval of a group of promoters, some of whom were no longer in business, everytime they wanted to change the title. So basically, by calling it the "WCW" title instead of the "NWA" title, they essentially created their own championship that they had full control of.

Fast forward. Flair leaves and is stripped of the WCW title. WCW crowns Lex Luger as the new WCW champion, but the NWA votes to keep Flair as NWA champion. From this point on, the WCW title (with a new belt) is completely separate from the NWA title (whose belt is still in the possesion of Flair because of a dispute with WCW over ownership of the strap)

Flair is eventually stripped of the NWA title when he joins the WWF (where he uses the NWA belt as the "Real World Champion".) The following year, WCW and the other NWA members reach an agreement to resurrect the NWA title and Flair eventually returns the belt to WCW after they reach a settlement.

All the aforementioned stuff happens in 1993. WCW leaves the NWA and creates the WCW International World title with the NWA title belt. The proper WCW World title and the International World title are eventually unified and the NWA title is revived by the remaining members, which include ECW, a few months later.



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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 05:17 pm
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DJP

 

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mike3775 wrote:
The problem is, some places recognize the Tatsumi Fujinami title change as an end to one of Flairs reigns, and when he "regained" it, another reign all together, while others do what is listed above, say that they are one and the same as well


The story in Japan was that Fujinami pinned Flair to win the NWA title (because him winning the "WCW" title wouldn't have meant shit there), but WCW disputed the finish because of a discrepanty in the rules (the dreaded over the top rope DQ rule, which doesn't apply in Japan) and Flair left the country with the belt recognized as WCW world champion. As far as I know, that was the first mention of the "WCW" title in Japan.

WCW's story was that Flair officially retained the WCW title (with no mention of a separate NWA title since they had stopped acknowledging the NWA by that point) by DQ because Fujinami threw him over the top rope, but that the Japanese basically didn't understand the rules and therefore believed that Fujinami wss the rightful WCW champion.

So in Japan, Fujinami is the NWA champion and Flair is the WCW champion. According to WCW, it's a dispute over who is the rightful WCW champion.

When Flair beat Fujinami in the rematch, the Japanese reported that the NWA and WCW titles had been unified. According to WCW, Flair retained the WCW title and ended the dispute over that championship once and for all.

The NWA later announced that they recognized the matches as title changes.

So all in all, it was just a way to give somebody in Japan a brief run with the NWA championship (at least in name since Flair kept the belt) to make the Japanese happy since that title still meant something over there. In the meantime, Flair could keep working as champion in WCW uninterrupted and not mess up the flow of what was happening there.

Last edited on Wed Mar 7th, 2012 05:26 pm by DJP



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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 05:46 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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Maybe long but that was not the least bit confusing to me. 



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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 06:43 pm
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Why r u stupid fagits answering this troll?  y am i responding 2 ur responses?  was DVE gonna be the nwa champ?  did loo thez hav a legit tough rep?  could harly beat loo n a shoot? 



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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 07:50 pm
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HBKperfect23

 

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Thanks guys. I understand it a little better. So WCW had created their title while still apart of the NWA, Flair has both titles and is stripped of both as he leaves for WWF. Did he carry two belts or was it one belt and he was reconized as the champion of each? Big Gold that shows up in WWF is the WCW or NWA belt?

EDIT: Nevermind, read over all of Road Warriors post and I get it. Thanks Road Warrior and those who contributed

Last edited on Wed Mar 7th, 2012 08:01 pm by HBKperfect23

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 Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2012 07:54 pm
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DJP wrote: mike3775 wrote:
The problem is, some places recognize the Tatsumi Fujinami title change as an end to one of Flairs reigns, and when he "regained" it, another reign all together, while others do what is listed above, say that they are one and the same as well


The story in Japan was that Fujinami pinned Flair to win the NWA title (because him winning the "WCW" title wouldn't have meant shit there), but WCW disputed the finish because of a discrepanty in the rules (the dreaded over the top rope DQ rule, which doesn't apply in Japan) and Flair left the country with the belt recognized as WCW world champion. As far as I know, that was the first mention of the "WCW" title in Japan.

WCW's story was that Flair officially retained the WCW title (with no mention of a separate NWA title since they had stopped acknowledging the NWA by that point) by DQ because Fujinami threw him over the top rope, but that the Japanese basically didn't understand the rules and therefore believed that Fujinami wss the rightful WCW champion.

So in Japan, Fujinami is the NWA champion and Flair is the WCW champion. According to WCW, it's a dispute over who is the rightful WCW champion.

When Flair beat Fujinami in the rematch, the Japanese reported that the NWA and WCW titles had been unified. According to WCW, Flair retained the WCW title and ended the dispute over that championship once and for all.

The NWA later announced that they recognized the matches as title changes.

So all in all, it was just a way to give somebody in Japan a brief run with the NWA championship (at least in name since Flair kept the belt) to make the Japanese happy since that title still meant something over there. In the meantime, Flair could keep working as champion in WCW uninterrupted and not mess up the flow of what was happening there.
Thanks. 

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 Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2012 04:05 am
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DJP

 

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HBKperfect23 wrote:
Thanks guys. I understand it a little better. So WCW had created their title while still apart of the NWA, Flair has both titles and is stripped of both as he leaves for WWF. Did he carry two belts or was it one belt and he was reconized as the champion of each? Big Gold that shows up in WWF is the WCW or NWA belt?

EDIT: Nevermind, read over all of Road Warriors post and I get it. Thanks Road Warrior and those who contributed


The big gold was symbolic of both titles until Flair left. Flair refused to return the belt unless he was paid a large sum of money, so WCW had a totally new belt made after they crowned Luger as champion. In the interim, they used an older belt from Dusty's PWF promotion in Florida that they slapped some plates on that read "World Championship Wrestling" and "WCW" to make it the "world" title belt.

After Flair took the belt to the WWF, WCW needed to cover as many legal bases as possible to get it back, so they told the NWA they'd be more supportive of them. WCW's Jim Herd was instilled as the NWA President, the board voted to strip Flair of the NWA title, and a lawsuit was filed with WCW paying the expenses.

The ownership of the belt was clouded (Flair claimed Crockett gave it to him while WCW claimed they purchased it in the sale), but the NWA was able to get the WWF to stop using the belt and showing it on TV on the grounds that the belt was a trademark, having been used in commerce as the symbol of the NWA World heavyweight championship since 1986, and for that reason the audience would be confused into thinking that Flair was the NWA champion. That's when they started digitizing the belt on their television.

When they couldn't use the real belt anymore, the WWF had Flair use a copy of the belt that they had made and tried to argue was a reasonable facsimile, basically meaning that people could noticibly tell the difference between it and the real belt, but that didn't last long because it was ruled that the belt and it's likeness was far too similar to the original.

When they were not allowed to use any belt that remotely resembled the big gold, they startd using a WWF tag team style belt (which more or less killed the "Real World Champion" angle in the arenas because the fans could clearly tell that it was a WWF belt and not an "outlaw" belt) that they still pretended was the NWA belt on TV and continued to digitize or black out. Flair continued to carry the belt until he won the WWF title in the Royal Rumble and the "Real World Champion" angle was dropped.

Eventually, Flair reached an agreement with WCW and they paid him a nice piece of change on behalf of the NWA to get the big gold back. The NWA subsequently signed the belt and related rights over to WCW for the amount of money they gave Flair, which is why they were able to keep it after leaving the NWA.

Last edited on Thu Mar 8th, 2012 04:11 am by DJP



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 Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2012 08:31 am
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DJP wrote: Eventually, Flair reached an agreement with WCW and they paid him a nice piece of change on behalf of the NWA to get the big gold back. The NWA subsequently signed the belt and related rights over to WCW for the amount of money they gave Flair, which is why they were able to keep it after leaving the NWA.
Flair spent that nice piece of change on rounds of drinks and lap dances.  And that is... the rest of the story.

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 Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2012 11:20 am
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HBKperfect23

 

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When they couldn't use the real belt anymore, the WWF had Flair use a copy of the belt that they had made and tried to argue was a reasonable facsimile, basically meaning that people could noticibly tell the difference between it and the real belt, but that didn't last long because it was ruled that the belt and it's likeness was far too similar to the original.

When they were not allowed to use any belt that remotely resembled the big gold, they startd using a WWF tag team style belt (which more or less killed the "Real World Champion" angle in the arenas because the fans could clearly tell that it was a WWF belt and not an "outlaw" belt) that they still pretended was the NWA belt on TV and continued to digitize or black out. Flair continued to carry the belt until he won the WWF title in the Royal Rumble and the "Real World Champion" angle was dropped.
quote]

Wonder why they didnt claim they were making fun of the NWA with the "real worlds champion". I always thought parody got rid of the copyright issues for the legal side of it. Even as a little kid I could tell they had the tag belt with that big black censor. Still dont see how WCW could make them stop using that.

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 Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2012 11:21 am
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HBKperfect23

 

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When they couldn't use the real belt anymore, the WWF had Flair use a copy of the belt that they had made and tried to argue was a reasonable facsimile, basically meaning that people could noticibly tell the difference between it and the real belt, but that didn't last long because it was ruled that the belt and it's likeness was far too similar to the original.

When they were not allowed to use any belt that remotely resembled the big gold, they startd using a WWF tag team style belt (which more or less killed the "Real World Champion" angle in the arenas because the fans could clearly tell that it was a WWF belt and not an "outlaw" belt) that they still pretended was the NWA belt on TV and continued to digitize or black out. Flair continued to carry the belt until he won the WWF title in the Royal Rumble and the "Real World Champion" angle was dropped.


Wonder why they didnt claim they were making fun of the NWA with the "real worlds champion". I always thought parody got rid of the copyright issues for the legal side of it. Even as a little kid I could tell they had the tag belt with that big black censor. Still dont see how WCW could make them stop using that

Last edited on Thu Mar 8th, 2012 11:22 am by HBKperfect23

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 Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2012 11:24 am
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Portalesman wrote: was DVE gonna be the nwa champ?  did loo thez hav a legit tough rep?  could harly beat loo n a shoot? 
Yes,yes and no. Hope this helps you out.



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