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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2012 05:29 pm
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Hymie Itsu



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srossi wrote:
TerryWWWF wrote:
srossi wrote: TerryWWWF wrote: Ultimark wrote: I really liked how he called a match. By the book without the hyperbole associated with today's announcers. Called it as a serious sport.That's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do. You're there to get over the angles and wrestlers, not dazzle everyone with your knowledge of holds. The announcer doesn't have to be over the top, but his job is to sell tickets.

Well damn, he was doing it wrong all those years and everyone was too nice to tell him?  Amazing the business survived.
First, fuck you and your attitude, but you already knew that.

There were a lot of horseshit wrestling announcers back in the day, including guys who were assigned to the show by a TV station. Some of them didn't know fuckall about what the job was supposed to be, and some of them were more concerned with being funny or trying to get themselves over. Bill Cardille was an example of that, aside from his slobbering worship of all things Bruno.

When you're doing "play-by-play" on TV, you shouldn't be describing what people are seeing because, well, they're fucking seeing it. The idea is to enhance what they're seeing with other information. In baseball or football, that usually means setting up the analyst.

Nobody gives a shit about the names of holds except for Meltzer and his disciples, and that's not the audience. The bottom line is to convince the marks that Dusty hates his opponent and there might be a riot when the two of them get together Friday at the Crapatorium, tickets on sale right fucking now. That's the idea, not correctly identifying a counter cross crotch crab.


Then you never listened to Solie. He didn't call the names of all the moves like Joey Styles or someone like that. He described in great detail how the moves felt and the pressure points it affected, etc. and that got tons of guys over and made them seem like bad-asses, i.e. wrestlers who fans wanted to pay to see. It had nothing to do with calling names. Like already mentioned, maybe that wouldn't work today but it's absurd to suggest it didn't work for the 30 or so years that we know it did work.


This.

The way I see it, the announcer's job is to get the wrestlers over and he had a knack of even getting jobbers over, atleast to a degree to make the match more entertaining. Russell was ok at this but nothing like Solie.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2012 06:16 pm
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Ultimark



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Hymie Itsu wrote:
srossi wrote:
TerryWWWF wrote:
srossi wrote: TerryWWWF wrote: Ultimark wrote: I really liked how he called a match. By the book without the hyperbole associated with today's announcers. Called it as a serious sport.That's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do. You're there to get over the angles and wrestlers, not dazzle everyone with your knowledge of holds. The announcer doesn't have to be over the top, but his job is to sell tickets.

Well damn, he was doing it wrong all those years and everyone was too nice to tell him?  Amazing the business survived.
First, fuck you and your attitude, but you already knew that.

There were a lot of horseshit wrestling announcers back in the day, including guys who were assigned to the show by a TV station. Some of them didn't know fuckall about what the job was supposed to be, and some of them were more concerned with being funny or trying to get themselves over. Bill Cardille was an example of that, aside from his slobbering worship of all things Bruno.

When you're doing "play-by-play" on TV, you shouldn't be describing what people are seeing because, well, they're fucking seeing it. The idea is to enhance what they're seeing with other information. In baseball or football, that usually means setting up the analyst.

Nobody gives a shit about the names of holds except for Meltzer and his disciples, and that's not the audience. The bottom line is to convince the marks that Dusty hates his opponent and there might be a riot when the two of them get together Friday at the Crapatorium, tickets on sale right fucking now. That's the idea, not correctly identifying a counter cross crotch crab.


Then you never listened to Solie. He didn't call the names of all the moves like Joey Styles or someone like that. He described in great detail how the moves felt and the pressure points it affected, etc. and that got tons of guys over and made them seem like bad-asses, i.e. wrestlers who fans wanted to pay to see. It had nothing to do with calling names. Like already mentioned, maybe that wouldn't work today but it's absurd to suggest it didn't work for the 30 or so years that we know it did work.


This.

The way I see it, the announcer's job is to get the wrestlers over and he had a knack of even getting jobbers over, atleast to a degree to make the match more entertaining. Russell was ok at this but nothing like Solie.


He even made Mike Jackson seem interesting.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2012 07:41 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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srossi wrote: TerryWWWF wrote:
srossi wrote: TerryWWWF wrote: Ultimark wrote: I really liked how he called a match. By the book without the hyperbole associated with today's announcers. Called it as a serious sport.That's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do. You're there to get over the angles and wrestlers, not dazzle everyone with your knowledge of holds. The announcer doesn't have to be over the top, but his job is to sell tickets.

Well damn, he was doing it wrong all those years and everyone was too nice to tell him?  Amazing the business survived.
First, fuck you and your attitude, but you already knew that.

There were a lot of horseshit wrestling announcers back in the day, including guys who were assigned to the show by a TV station. Some of them didn't know fuckall about what the job was supposed to be, and some of them were more concerned with being funny or trying to get themselves over. Bill Cardille was an example of that, aside from his slobbering worship of all things Bruno.

When you're doing "play-by-play" on TV, you shouldn't be describing what people are seeing because, well, they're fucking seeing it. The idea is to enhance what they're seeing with other information. In baseball or football, that usually means setting up the analyst.

Nobody gives a shit about the names of holds except for Meltzer and his disciples, and that's not the audience. The bottom line is to convince the marks that Dusty hates his opponent and there might be a riot when the two of them get together Friday at the Crapatorium, tickets on sale right fucking now. That's the idea, not correctly identifying a counter cross crotch crab.


Then you never listened to Solie. He didn't call the names of all the moves like Joey Styles or someone like that. He described in great detail how the moves felt and the pressure points it affected, etc. and that got tons of guys over and made them seem like bad-asses, i.e. wrestlers who fans wanted to pay to see. It had nothing to do with calling names. Like already mentioned, maybe that wouldn't work today but it's absurd to suggest it didn't work for the 30 or so years that we know it did work.
He sucked so badly he was the lead announcer for Florida, Georgia, and Continental at the same flipping time. He did call it like a legitimate sporting event, but do not think he did not discuss angles and the such.  He did, just not at the expense of calling the match.  He would have people come out and call matches with him and that was for no other reason that to talk about angles and feuds.  He let the wrestlers apply holds to him so he could accurately describe what they felt like.  He was such a hack that Leroy McGuirk tearfully told Gordon that he appreciated the way he called matches because he could see them even though he had been blind for over ten years.  I mean different strokes and all, but he was a great commentator. 



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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2012 08:02 pm
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kargol



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TerryWWWF wrote: Ultimark wrote: I really liked how he called a match. By the book without the hyperbole associated with today's announcers. Called it as a serious sport.That's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do. You're there to get over the angles and wrestlers, not dazzle everyone with your knowledge of holds. The announcer doesn't have to be over the top, but his job is to sell tickets.

That's colour's job.  Play-by-play is to tell everyone exactly why Rey Mysterio has a chance against Khali even though it appears obvious he doesn't.  Or why Miz can get out of Ziggler's sleeper as it's not cinched in.

Although I doubt even Einstein could explain how Cena's STF is meant to incapacitate.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2012 09:28 pm
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Ultimark



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I can't believe we are still debating this. Why don't we discuss the great work Gene Okerlund did in the AWA?

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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2012 11:51 pm
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I thought that Solie was outstanding as an announcer in Georgia. I think that he struggled as an announcer when it became expected for the announcers to shill the upcoming PPV at every possible moment, often at the expense of the match going on in the ring. Solie was a wrestling announcer, not a pitchman.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2012 01:37 am
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Blazer
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kargol wrote: TerryWWWF wrote: Ultimark wrote: I really liked how he called a match. By the book without the hyperbole associated with today's announcers. Called it as a serious sport.That's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do. You're there to get over the angles and wrestlers, not dazzle everyone with your knowledge of holds. The announcer doesn't have to be over the top, but his job is to sell tickets.

That's colour's job.  Play-by-play is to tell....
everyone exactly why Rey Mysterio has a chance against Khali even though it appears obvious he doesn't.  Or why Miz can get out of Ziggler's sleeper as it's not cinched in.

Although I doubt even Einstein could explain how Cena's STF is meant to incapacitate.

We're on the same side, but trying to use that logic above is trying to apply 2012 rules to 1970s and 1980s tv.  A lot of wrestling shows back then (in fact, a lot of SPORTING events) did not use the traditional pbp guy and color guy.  That's a somewhat recent (let's say the last two decades) formula in tv that's become the norm.

Trying to squeeze Solie into that equation isn't fair.  Solie was so fucking good, he sort of transcends that concept.  He could call the match AND get the angles over.  

I grew up in the Midwest and saw a lot of AWA and WWF stuff.  Didn't really get exposed to Gordon until I started renting the PWI Lords of the Ring tape and watching Pro Wrestling This Week.  I didn't know what to make of him at first because he had a unique style, but the dude was credible, classy and treated wrestling like it was a real sport.  This is the kinda dude that's been missing from wrestling for, hell, what? 25 years?  Maybe since the Jim Ross WCW period.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2012 02:54 am
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The STF is a legit shoot hold that was once used by Loo Thez.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2012 03:02 am
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Ultimark wrote: Why don't we discuss the great work Gene Okerlund did in the AWA?
Mean Gene was great at interviewing Hulk Hogan in the AWA.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2012 04:28 am
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Ultimark



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I was kidding. I have basically no knowledge of the AWA except for the Apter mags. The stuff on ESPN was crap imo. I probably missed the prime years.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2012 04:10 pm
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Hymie Itsu



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Ultimark wrote:
I was kidding. I have basically no knowledge of the AWA except for the Apter mags. The stuff on ESPN was crap imo. I probably missed the prime years.

Yeah. I kind of feel bad for you. It was a great 3 months to be a rasslin' fan.



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