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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:04 am
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WongLee
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So Herb gives me a vote every year. It's not a super secret Illuminati ballot like in our presidential elections so it's cool to put it up on the beej board. I know Matt Farmer has a vote, not sure about anyone else on this board. Here's the whole list of candidates followed by who I voted for. Agree? Disagree? Let it all hang out.



It's time for the 2017 Hall of Fame elections.   This ballot is being sent out to major wrestling stars, past and present, major management figures in the industry, writers and historians.   If you are getting this, you are being asked your opinion on who should be inducted into this year's Hall of Fame class.  The criteria for the Hall of Fame is a combination of drawing power, being a great in-ring performer or excelling in ones field in pro wrestling, as well as having historical significance in a positive manner.  A candidate should either have something to offer in all three categories, or be someone so outstanding in one or two of those categories that they deserve inclusion.   The names listed below are those under consideration for this year.  To be eligible, a performer must have reached their 35th birthday and completed ten years since their debut as a full-time performer, or be someone who has been a full-time pro wrestler for at least 15 years.   Longevity should be a prime consideration rather than a hot two or three year run, unless someone is so significant as a trend-setter or a historical figure in the business, or valuable to the industry, that they need to be included.  However, just longevity without being either a long-term main eventer, a top draw and/or a top caliber in-ring performer should be seen as relatively meaningless.   The election is broken down into a number of categories.  You should check each category for wrestlers that you feel you are familiar enough with based on geography that you've either traveled or are familiar with, and based on the time you have followed pro wrestling.  You do not have to vote for a wrestler in every category you've checked.   The ballot is also broken down to wrestlers and those who are not pro wrestlers but have been valuable parts of the industry.   The maximum number of wrestlers that you can vote for all the categories is ten.  You can pick as few as zero if you don't believe anyone on this list deserves inclusion.   For wrestling executives, managers, announcers and other outside the ring performers, you can vote for them and they are not counted against the ten.  You can vote for as many as five of them.   All responses are confidential.  There is nothing to worry about politically about any involvement in this process.  Your selections will not be revealed unless you choose to do so yourself.   Anyone who receives mention on 60% of the ballots from the geographical region and time frame (broken down as Continental United States & Canada; Mexico; Japan; and the rest of the world) will be added to the Hall of Fame in the class of 2017.   If you are unfamiliar with any of the candidates due to geography of having never seen them, that is fine.  Ballots are sent to many people from all over the world and from different wrestling cultures so that everyone has as fair a shot at possible.   The breakdown for modern and historical performers is 30 years ago, or 1987.  So if the last year the person was a headliner, or was a key figure in the industry, was prior to 1987, they would be in the historical class.   All performers who receive mention on 10% to 59.9% of the ballots from their geographical region or era will remain on the ballot for consideration next year.  All those who receive less than 10% of the vote will be dropped from next year's ballot.  They can return in two years based on if there is significant feedback from voters who say they will vote for them.  This is mostly for wrestlers who are still active who may improve their career legacy, but can be for retired wrestlers if voters believe they should be put on or returned to the ballot.   In addition, in following the lead of the baseball Hall of Fame, which is the model here, starting this year we have a 15-year-rule.  The following candidates have been on the ballot since 2003.  In baseball, this would be their last year of eligibility.  Here, if they don't get at least 50% of the votes in this year's election they will be removed from the ballot.  If they are modern candidates, they can be brought back in the historical performers era in two years if it is more than 30 years since their career as a Hall Fame level performer is up:   The following candidates will be dropped from next year's ballot unless they are elected in or garner 50% of the vote:    Curt Hennig Yuji Nagata Don Owen Tim Woods   

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Red Bastien
June Byers
Wild Bull Curry
Cowboy Bob Ellis
Don Fargo
Pepper Gomez
Archie "Mongolian Stomper" Gouldie
Chavo Guerrero Sr.
Dick Hutton
Rocky Johnson
Sputnik Monroe
Pedro Morales
Blackjack Mulligan
George Steele
John Tolos
Enrique Torres
Von Brauners & Saul Weingeroff
Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker
Tim "Mr. Wrestling" Woods
Bearcat Wright

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson w/J.J. Dillon
Junkyard Dog
Edge
Bill Goldberg
Curt Hennig
Randy Orton
C.M. Punk
Sgt. Slaughter
Trish Stratus
A.J. Styles
Kerry Von Erich
Ultimate Warrior

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES
Jun Akiyama
Yoshiaki Fujiwara
Hayabusa
Kota Ibushi
Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan
Yuji Nagata
Tetsuya Naito
Mike & Ben Sharpe
Minoru Suzuki
Kiyoshi Tamura
Akira Taue

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES
Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo
Caristico/Mistico Sangre
Chicana
Cien Caras
Ultimo Guerrero
Ruben Juarez
Karloff Lagarde
Blue Panther
L.A. Park
Huracan Ramirez
El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro
Vampiro
Villano III
Dr. Wagner Jr.

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND/PACIFIC ISLANDS/AFRICA CANDIDATES
Spyros Arion
Johnny Barend
Domenic DeNucci
Killer Karl Kox
Mark Lewin
Mario Milano
Steve Rickard
Otto Wanz

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE
Big Daddy
Horst Hoffman
Billy Joyce
Kendo Nagasaki
Rollerball Mark Rocco
Johny Saint
Ricky Starr
Otto Wanz

NON-WRESTLERS
Bill Apter
Lord James Blears
Dave Brown
Chyna
Jim Crockett Jr.
Jim Crockett Sr.
Gary Hart
Jimmy Hart
Howard Finkel
Ed Francis
Jerry Jarrett
Larry Matysik
Don Owen
George Scott
Stanley Weston


Ok so now here's the WongLee vote: Remember, you're only allowed ten total for in-ring performers. Of course I'm going with only the areas I know something about. For example, I know nothing about the Mexican tumbling scene so I won't vote on it.

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Pedro Morales
John Tolos
Enrique Torres

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
A.J. Styles

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES
Akira Taue

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND/PACIFIC ISLANDS/AFRICA CANDIDATES
Mark Lewin
Mario Milano

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE
Big Daddy
Billy Joyce
Rollerball Mark Rocco
 
NON-WRESTLERS
Bill Apter
Larry Matysik
Don Owen
Stanley Weston

Last edited on Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:34 am by WongLee



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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 02:24 am
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Superstar



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No beef with your selections but I would add Perfect, Edge, and Stomper. Any reason why you didnt select them?



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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 02:25 am
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Superstar



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Also I’d personally vote for Howard Finkel because he’s a decent guy and really is into this more so than a lot of others. He is totally into slow pitch Industrial League Softball too.



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"Jack Brisco grabbed my testicles once but I told him "Brisco, you have exactly 15 minutes to get your hands off my balls"." -WongLee 7/22/2017
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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 02:32 am
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WongLee
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Edge and Hennig I was very close on. Hennig more so than Edge because he was on top in more places. However to me, AJ has gotten the brass ring both here and in Japan. The Stomper was never on top in a MAJOR territory. A good, reliable hand, but wasn't going to be selling out hockey arenas.



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hello @Paula_Deen you have midget pig dick and dead dog tits I hope I see you I break your fucking fat neck bitch
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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 02:37 am
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freebirdsforever2001



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My selections would be:
Pepper Gomez
JYD
Trish Stratus
Yoshiaki Fujiwara
Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (Tencozy)
Minoru Suzuki
Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo
Dr. Wagner Jr.
Mark Lewin
Rollerball Mark Rocco
Jim Crockett Sr
Gary Hart
Bill Apter
Jimmy Hart
Don Owen



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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 02:41 am
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Superstar



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WongLee wrote: Edge and Hennig I was very close on. Hennig more so than Edge because he was on top in more places. However to me, AJ has gotten the brass ring both here and in Japan. The Stomper was never on top in a MAJOR territory. A good, reliable hand, but wasn't going to be selling out hockey arenas.I agree with Stomper, he’s my “compiler” guy.  I say Edge based not only on the innovation in the TLC matches but also in the fact that he held the WWE strap in a time when we were force fed muscle bloated hand picked guys.  Cena, HHH, and Batista were the ONLY guys of this post Angle/Goldberg/Lesnar era, and Edge forced their hand.  I totally agree with Styles, as winning the WWE title was basically the icing on his cake, but Edge drew and earned more money in his prime than AJ ever will, due to AJ staying so loyal to TNA.



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"Jack Brisco grabbed my testicles once but I told him "Brisco, you have exactly 15 minutes to get your hands off my balls"." -WongLee 7/22/2017
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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:09 pm
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srossi

 

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This would be my ballot:

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Pedro Morales
Dick Hutton
June Byers

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Edge
Curt Hennig
Trish Stratus

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES
Yuji Nagata
Mike & Ben Sharpe

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES
Dr. Wagner, Jr.

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE
Big Daddy
Johnny Saint
Rollerball Mark Rocco
 
NON-WRESTLERS
Bill Apter
Jimmy Hart
Howard Finkel
Don Owen
Stanley Weston

Regarding A.J. Styles, I think it's way too soon.  The way I see it, you can't put in a guy who was exclusively an indy wrestler up until a few years ago (and yes, TNA is indy).  I think his HOF case rests so far on good workrate, a really big run in a red-hot NJPW that lasted less than 2 years, and a 4 month WWE World title reign (but mostly a mid-carder since then).  That's a start, but that's not a HOF career yet.  It's 2 1/2 years out of 20 years where he was Hall-worthy.  Give him some more time.  I don't know how anyone could justify Styles as a HOFer but not an old-timer like Dick Hutton, who got a year with the NWA World title when that meant EVERYTHING and was basically the only belt that counted (not to mention Hutton had the workrate for his era too and the amateur credentials).  I know comparing eras is apples to oranges, but you sort of have to for this exercise, even if they're in different categories. 

I also think it's a joke that Jimmy Hart never gets any support for this.  If you assume Heenan and Cornette as the best managers of all-time (and that seems a given), then you're left with a fairly slim group that is probably headed by Jimmy Hart, Grand Wizard, Lou Albano, and Paul E. Dangerously as the next best with guys like Oliver Humperdink and Gary Hart in a 3rd class behind them.  Hart's Memphis stuff is gold and he was all over WWF and WCW for more than 10 years after that.  I'm not sure what more he could've done to cement himself as an elite manager in a sport that really only had managers in the '70s and '80s, and many weren't that good.        


Last edited on Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:23 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:19 pm
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martini
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Yeah, I'd vote Curt Hennig before A.J. Styles. A.J. will have plenty of time to get in.

If I had a ballot, I'd go with...

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Sputnik Monroe
Pedro Morales
Tim "Mr. Wrestling" Woods
Pepper Gomez

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson w/J.J. Dillon
Edge
Curt Hennig
Trish Stratus
C.M. Punk (seeing as though his career in pro wrestling may be over)

NON-WRESTLERS
Bill Apter
Dave Brown
Gary Hart
Jimmy Hart
Don Owen



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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:22 pm
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WongLee
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Interesting historical picks Rossi with Hutton and Byers. If the sport was a shoot they would both be no brainers. However, Hutton couldn't draw at all as NWA champion and came across as bland on those new fangled TV's. Byers is kind of lost in these types of conversations because she came in between two such dominant champions in Burke and Moolah.



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hello @Paula_Deen you have midget pig dick and dead dog tits I hope I see you I break your fucking fat neck bitch
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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:28 pm
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srossi

 

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WongLee wrote: Interesting historical picks Rossi with Hutton and Byers. If the sport was a shoot they would both be no brainers. However, Hutton couldn't draw at all as NWA champion and came across as bland on those new fangled TV's. Byers is kind of lost in these types of conversations because she came in between two such dominant champions in Burke and Moolah.
My line of reasoning with Byers isn't all that different from my reasoning with Jimmy Hart.  There are so few elite women wrestlers, why exclude one of the top ones?  To rush in an A.J. Styles who will make it within the next few years anyway (and I'm not picking on your selection of Styles, I keep mentioning him because I really think he's going to easily make it this year and be on most ballots, whereas Byers never gets support).  Byers probably makes most lists for top 5 women's wrestlers of all-time, certainly before the modern era, and is right behind Moolah and Burke and on par with Grable in terms of impact.  I think she deserves it finally.  I'd rather see some of the oversights from the past rectified before worrying about Styles, Punk, etc.  And Tetsuya Naito and Kota Ibushi are on the ballot?  WTF?  I think of them as the present and future of NJPW, not legends.  They've just started decent runs within the past YEAR!   

Last edited on Tue Oct 10th, 2017 01:31 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 11:41 pm
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WongLee
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srossi wrote: WongLee wrote: Interesting historical picks Rossi with Hutton and Byers. If the sport was a shoot they would both be no brainers. However, Hutton couldn't draw at all as NWA champion and came across as bland on those new fangled TV's. Byers is kind of lost in these types of conversations because she came in between two such dominant champions in Burke and Moolah.
My line of reasoning with Byers isn't all that different from my reasoning with Jimmy Hart.  There are so few elite women wrestlers, why exclude one of the top ones?  To rush in an A.J. Styles who will make it within the next few years anyway (and I'm not picking on your selection of Styles, I keep mentioning him because I really think he's going to easily make it this year and be on most ballots, whereas Byers never gets support).  Byers probably makes most lists for top 5 women's wrestlers of all-time, certainly before the modern era, and is right behind Moolah and Burke and on par with Grable in terms of impact.  I think she deserves it finally.  I'd rather see some of the oversights from the past rectified before worrying about Styles, Punk, etc.  And Tetsuya Naito and Kota Ibushi are on the ballot?  WTF?  I think of them as the present and future of NJPW, not legends.  They've just started decent runs within the past YEAR!  
Here's the thing about whether Byers deserves it or not, and make no mistake, I think she would be a fine pick. With the WON HOF, you have all the hardest of the hardcore historians voting. These guys miss nothing. If Byers doesn't go in it's only because there are wrestlers (male and female) who are better. The only ones in danger of being dropped from next years ballot if they don't receive enough votes are Curt Hennig, Yuji Nagata, Don Owen, and Tim Woods.



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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 11:46 pm
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WongLee
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martini wrote: Yeah, I'd vote Curt Hennig before A.J. Styles. A.J. will have plenty of time to get in.

If I had a ballot, I'd go with...

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Sputnik Monroe
Pedro Morales
Tim "Mr. Wrestling" Woods
Pepper Gomez

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson w/J.J. Dillon
Edge
Curt Hennig
Trish Stratus
C.M. Punk (seeing as though his career in pro wrestling may be over)

NON-WRESTLERS
Bill Apter
Dave Brown
Gary Hart
Jimmy Hart
Don Owen
I like the vast majority of your picks. Sputs huh? Well loved by his peers and really helped move race relations ahead in the Deep South as far as wrestling was concerned. But IMO he was limited to just a few areas of the South. Pepper Gomez is an interesting pick. Very, very popular and not just amongst Hispanic fans either. Headlined in San Francisco and Texas. His matches with Ray Stevens were legendary. The blowoff was set for Candlestick Park until Ray got hurt bad in a go-kart accident. I honestly don't think Punk will ever get in.



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hello @Paula_Deen you have midget pig dick and dead dog tits I hope I see you I break your fucking fat neck bitch
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 Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2017 11:48 pm
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WongLee
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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: My selections would be:
Pepper Gomez
JYD
Trish Stratus
Yoshiaki Fujiwara
Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (Tencozy)
Minoru Suzuki
Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo
Dr. Wagner Jr.
Mark Lewin
Rollerball Mark Rocco
Jim Crockett Sr
Gary Hart
Bill Apter
Jimmy Hart
Don Owen
I was really on the fence about Trish and JYD. Trish is arguably the biggest female star of the 21st Century and was able to draw some PPV buys on her name alone. JYD was a godlike figure for Watts and an uppercard guy for Vince in the expansion years.



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hello @Paula_Deen you have midget pig dick and dead dog tits I hope I see you I break your fucking fat neck bitch
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 Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2017 04:04 am
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cdewar19

 

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Tully and Arn teamed less than three full years together. They should not be anywhere near the ballot. Would love to know Dave's reasoning for putting them on the ballot.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2017 03:43 pm
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srossi

 

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WongLee wrote: The blowoff was set for Candlestick Park until Ray got hurt bad in a go-kart accident.

I never want to hear the past generation making fun of today's wrestlers playing video games again.



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