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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 09:38 pm
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beejmi
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An interesting bag of tricks.

Now I personally only saw him live in the mid-70s (WWWF) and everything else through the magic of videotape.

I saw him as more of an "International Star". Didn't care for his style of wrestling. Oh but he has his (rabid) supporters. Part of me thinks his death and his relationship with Meltzer has made him remembered as more of an influence than he was. I can be debated on that though -- it's just an overall feeling , right or wrong.

Certainly a Hall of Famer -- but I am looking for your opinion on Bruiser Brody...

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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 11:07 pm
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khawk
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I like Brody's work. The fact he refused to lose so much in so many places puts a blemish on his work for me, though.

Jerry Blackwell never pinned him in their long-running feud, for example...there was no way that feud could end sensibly without at least one pinfall win for Blackwell. I'm sure there are other feuds that ended without Brody dropping a fall.

Don't get me wrong, pro wrestlers are supposed to look out for number one. I understand that. Maybe reading how a lickspittle like Larry Matysik looked up to him for being like that, going out his way to justify that in his (Bad) book just colours my judgement of his actions.

Matysik spends many pages of his book telling us how Brody was always looking long-term and wouldn't lose baceuse he had vision in how a feud should play out for maximum return. Reality: The promoters would ask him to lose by pin and he wouldn't (save for the odd spot show in some hick town that nobody ever heard about).

Really, how would taking the odd pinfall loss when it mattered really have hurt Brody in the long-term? Not at all, I don't think.

This is a funny argument because it is derived from what I have become educated on through the years regarding how Brody did business. In the mid-80's, from a mark perspective, I enjoyed the chaos and brutality his appearances brought, wherever I saw him.

Even then, though, it always surprised me that he never lost clean, especially when he was in as a heel. :?



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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 11:35 pm
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I was always a fan.  Growing up, I mainly saw Brody in WCCW.   I am from the St. Louis area, but  missed out on Wrestling at the Chase because I started watching wrestling around '84-85. 

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 Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 11:46 pm
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clawmaster
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I was a huge Brody fan but more for the character he played in the ring barking and such than the great athleticism he displayed. I saw him wrestle live once in Corpus Christi, TX when I was on vacation in June of 1982. He wrestled the Mongolian Stomper. The match was only so so. Gino Hernandez & Tully Blanchard vs Ken Lucas & Ricky Morton, the semi main, was much better. Corpus was a fun town. Drinking age was 18 in Texas then so I was shitfaced most of my vacation there.

The Brody apologists are still out in full force. Kevin mentioned Larry Matysik but you can also add Dave Meltzer and fanboy Matt Farmer to the list. Brody was a prick that did what was best for himself at any cost. No shock that somebody killed him. Despite his flaws, Brody to this day remains one of my favorite wrestlers.




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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:03 am
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carpetbeggar
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One of my favorites alltime too. Loved his style of brawling with Abbie and then semi-technical wrestling he could do too with the likes of Flair and a mixture of both with the likes of Terry Funk. I just found him to be very versatile and athletic in the ring. His backroom politics aside you got to enjoy the hell out of him. Great on the stick too IMHO.

Is there a small list of guys Brody had no probnlem doing the honours for? Did he ever let Abbie pin him clean and vice-versa? How about the former N.W.A. champs like Race and Brisco, did they get clean wins over him?

That could almost be a topic unto itself:Wrestlers who Brody jobbed clean too.:)

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:03 am by carpetbeggar

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:31 am
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AbbyDaBuccher



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From the 12/88 issue of PWI...cool article on Brody and photos from his last match!








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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:31 am
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srossi

 

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I love watching old Brody matches.  He played the wildman character perfectly and it's a lot of fun to see fans, especially the Japanese, run away from him in legit sheer terror.  He was a great brawler who could also wrestle and was athletic for the time.  Unlike Abby, Sheik, etc. he could wrestle more than one style and adapt to his opponents.  He knew how to have good big man vs. little man matches too, at least with smaller guys that he respected and was willing to sell for. 

The smart mark stuff that you later learn, and the ridiculous fan boy hand jobs that Matysik and Meltzer give him, are a turn off and I think he was quite frankly a prick in real life who would've been skewered if there had been an Internet back then, but in the ring when he was willing to work (and that was only about half the time) he was extremely good and certainly would've been money today too. 

Brody vs. Undertaker is one of my personal all-time dream matches.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:53 am
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The Ultimate Sin
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srossi wrote:  

The smart mark stuff that you later learn, and the ridiculous fan boy hand jobs that Matysik and Meltzer give him, are a turn off and I think he was quite frankly a prick in real life who would've been skewered if there had been an Internet back then, but in the ring when he was willing to work (and that was only about half the time) he was extremely good and certainly would've been money today too. 


My thoughts too.  Everyone bitches about Hogan and HHH not jobbing, and using politics, and looking out for themselves over the best interest of the bizness.  For some reason Brody gets a free pass.  Maybe it's the martyr effect.

I liked him in the ring.  I only saw him in the AWA and a bit in World Class.  I was always disapointed, because he seemed to come into the territory and leave too quickly.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 04:31 am
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srossi

 

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It's a little bit different though in all 3 cases. 

Brody was in business forn himself.  His value in Japan, at least in his mind, was based strictly on his unbeatable image.  And his big paydays were all in Japan, so for him, losing in America 3 weeks before a huge Japan tour where he was main eventing against Baba and Tsuruta would be the equivalent of Hogan jobbing to Muraco 3 weeks before Wrestemania III.  It kills the mystique of a more hyped match and he gets paid less.  Part of it was an excuse never to job, part of it probably had some basis in truth.  So since he was basically booking himself and not affiliated with a company per se, he had lots of conflicts with promoters who were concerned with THEIR business while Brody was concerned with HIS business. 

With Hogan, his value to himself was his value to the WWF.  Keep Hogan strong, keep the company strong (at least until the fans got tired of him after 6-8 years).  I can't imagine there being much conflict or even politics because everyone was making a fortune.  Sure someone can bitch about not being in his spot, but if you're 3rd on a card he's main eventing compared to 3rd on the B show, that's a huge difference in your paycheck too.  Only a moron would argue with what worked.  Many wrestlers are morons though.

HHH thinks he's Hogan and Austin but he's not.  There's more politics there, or at least there was at first.  And it's a different world now because NO ONE is the draw for WWE, the company itself is or is not the draw.  It's going to be that way for a long time because I don't see another Austin coming along anytime soon.  I think everyone finally realizes that and honestly HHH has been more than generous with keeping himself away from the main event for a good 2+ years now.  And if he put himself back in the title picture at this point, I couldn't blame him because really nothing else is working anyway.  I think other guys have to some degree had an opportunity to step up and they failed, most notably Orton who I think is just boring and wooden as fuck on the mic and not a main eventer.  So any bitching about HHH seems like sour grapes at this point.


Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 04:34 am by srossi



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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 12:48 pm
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WWFfan

 

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I agree with you Srossi, Brody would've been crucified if there was an internet back then.

Each case is different ( as you mentioned) but there is certainly a double standard when it comes to certain people and things. JBL is a prick for potatoing someone but bring us back to the good old days when that great character Johnny Valentine would shit on people in bed.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 09:56 pm
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I've mentioned this before on other boards, but is worth repeating. Brody had a house next door to my maternal grandfather in Indiana. My grandfater was an ailing, frail guy in the 70s and Brody fixed his entire roof, gratis. He may have been a dick to some people in the wrestling business. To ordinary people in real life, he would give the shirt off his back.

My mother had absolutely no use for wrestling, but was genuinely sad to hear about Brody's death, because she was always appreciative of how he had helped out her father.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 09:58 pm
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Heretic



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khawk wrote:
I like Brody's work. The fact he refused to lose so much in so many places puts a blemish on his work for me, though.

Jerry Blackwell never pinned him in their long-running feud, for example...there was no way that feud could end sensibly without at least one pinfall win for Blackwell. I'm sure there are other feuds that ended without Brody dropping a fall.

Don't get me wrong, pro wrestlers are supposed to look out for number one. I understand that. Maybe reading how a lickspittle like Larry Matysik looked up to him for being like that, going out his way to justify that in his (Bad) book just colours my judgement of his actions.

Matysik spends many pages of his book telling us how Brody was always looking long-term and wouldn't lose baceuse he had vision in how a feud should play out for maximum return. Reality: The promoters would ask him to lose by pin and he wouldn't (save for the odd spot show in some hick town that nobody ever heard about).

Really, how would taking the odd pinfall loss when it mattered really have hurt Brody in the long-term? Not at all, I don't think.

This is a funny argument because it is derived from what I have become educated on through the years regarding how Brody did business. In the mid-80's, from a mark perspective, I enjoyed the chaos and brutality his appearances brought, wherever I saw him.

Even then, though, it always surprised me that he never lost clean, especially when he was in as a heel. :?


It does seem like the majority of feuds ended with his being "run off" by the face rather than pinned clean. Or "banned" by the "commissioner" for his brutality.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 10:10 pm
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Franchise
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Brody was in business forn himself.  His value in Japan, at least in his mind, was based strictly on his unbeatable image.  And his big paydays were all in Japan, so for him, losing in America 3 weeks before a huge Japan tour where he was main eventing against Baba and Tsuruta would be the equivalent of Hogan jobbing to Muraco 3 weeks before Wrestemania III.  It kills the mystique of a more hyped match and he gets paid less.  Part of it was an excuse never to job, part of it probably had some basis in truth.  So since he was basically booking himself and not affiliated with a company per se, he had lots of conflicts with promoters who were concerned with THEIR business while Brody was concerned with HIS business. 
I would tend to agree w/ this & what is confusing to me is why would a promoter like Gagne would put Blackwell in a long running program w/ Brody if he already knew Brody's past & unwillingnes to job for whatever reason. As long as Brody was making the bulk of his cash in Japan he should have been booked like a side show freak similar to Andre in America (winning battle royals & beating up jobbers & or a top heel or face who is on the way out of that territory). Maybe it just goes back to what srossi said about most people in wrestling being morons.   

Personally I never cared much for Brody.

 



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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 10:26 pm
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srossi

 

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Well why would Verne give Hansen the belt?  That was even dumber.  These promoters saw dollar signs in pushing these guys to the max and didn't have the foresight to predict the inevitable problems.  Promoters are arrogant pricks who are marks for their own product and their own belts.  They didn't care about or understand Japan.  The wrestlers back then were the true businessmen who wiped their asses with these belts and just wanted to make their money.  Guys like Gagne never gor that.  He's just thinking "Hey, it doesn't get better than being AWA World champion so what's your problem!"  Of course it's probably the opposite now where so many guys are marks for the belt or the push and sacrifice money for it.

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 10:30 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 10:35 pm
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I have to say this, if someone could get away with doing everything on his own terms then they should be admired. Brody did it because he worked himself into that position. If he's not doing it then the promoter is doing it to him.

EDIT: Rossi has kind of alluded to that I see.

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 10:36 pm by WWFfan

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