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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 01:07 am
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clawmaster
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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: clawmaster wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote: clawmaster wrote: Some slight alterations. Billy Cunningham moved up. Bobby Jones moved down. Chris Mullin moved up. Sam Jones moved down. George Gervin moved down. Clyde Drexler moved up. Reggie Miller moved up. John Stockton moved down. Walt Frazier moved up. Gary Payton moved up. Jason Kidd moved up. Dominque seems fine at number five. Not convinced he was better than Dr. J or Rick Barry. 

What about Bill Walton? I would rather see Mourning in there then Walton.

That very well could happen tonight. Walton is a what if guy. Fact is he did hurt his foot.

Top 50 trumps all arguments.

A Top 50 without Dominique is a joke. It's a reference tool nothing else.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 01:12 am
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clawmaster
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Now speaking of reference.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waltobi01.html

Walton played 10 seasons in the NBA. He averaged 46.8 games per season. The three seasons he was at an All Star Level were with Portland in which he played 51, 65 and 58 regular season games.

3 All Star level seasons out of 10. He makes the top 50 players of all time. WTF!! If anything by making that list, he's the most overrated NBA player of all time.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 04:08 am
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The Ultimate Sin
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clawmaster wrote:
The Ultimate Sin wrote: clawmaster wrote:
Good debate here.

Re: Winning and Karl Malone

Is it Karl Malone's fault he played in the same era as Michael Jordan?


It's not that, though. He has shitty players around him. Greg Ostertag and Mark Eaton at center. I liked Eaton, but he was just a huge guy plugging up the middle.

Hornacek or Jeff Malone at shooting guard were decent.

Stockton was just a passer who scored out of the pick and roll because of Malone's skill.

Who the fuck did they ever haver at the small forward.

Sloan ran a one dimensional offense that was easily shut down in the playoffs when opponents actually started to play defense. The Jazz never attempted to play enough defense to be successful in a tough playoff series.

Malone was a great player on shitty teams.

Duncan had better teammates and a better coach, that's why I'd put him just below Malone.

The Jazz played The Bulls in the finals. So yes it was Jordan that kept Malone from winning. What The Jazz lacked was that third guy to go with Stockton and Malone. Blue Edwards and Jeff Hornacek weren't going to stop Jordan or Pippen in crunch time.

Just like Partick Ewing lacked a great scoring guard to go with him and Oakley. John Starks. Please.


Jordan kept them from winning the title in one of the 10 years they flopped in the playoffs, that was my point. Jordan's Bulls drilled the Ewing, the Cavs, and Barkley's teams regularly, but the Jazz only had one shot, and that year they weren't even the best team in the west.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 04:11 am
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clawmaster wrote:
Now speaking of reference.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waltobi01.html

Walton played 10 seasons in the NBA. He averaged 46.8 games per season. The three seasons he was at an All Star Level were with Portland in which he played 51, 65 and 58 regular season games.

3 All Star level seasons out of 10. He makes the top 50 players of all time. WTF!! If anything by making that list, he's the most overrated NBA player of all time.


I agree. Walton could have been great if he would have been healthy, and Roy Tarpley could have been great if he stayed clean, but...



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 03:50 pm
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new seeds.

Point Guards
1 Magic Johnson
2 Oscar Robertson
3 Isiah Thomas
4 Jason Kidd
5 Gary Payton
6 Walt Frazier
7 John Stockton
8 Bob Cousy
9 Steve Nash
10 Kevin Johnson
11 Nate Archibald
12 Dennis Johnson
13 Lenny Wilkens
14 Mark Price
15 Maurice Cheeks
16 Mark Jackson

Shooting Guards
1 Michael Jordan
2 Kobe Bryant
3 Jerry West
4 Clyde Drexler
5 Reggie Miller
6 George Gervin
7 Allan Iverson
8 Pete Maravich
9 Ray Allen
10 Earl Monroe
11 Joe Dumars
12 Sidney Moncrief
13 Hal Greer
14 Vince Carter
15 Mitch Richmond
16 Dave Bing

Small Forwards
1 Larry Bird
2 Elgin Baylor
3 Julius Erving
4 Rick Barry
5 Dominque Wilkins
6 Scottie Pippen
7 John Havlicek
8 James Worthy
9 Adrian Dantley
10 Paul Pierce
11 Billy Cunningham  
12 Sam Jones 
13 Chris Mullin
14 Bobby Jones  
15 Alex English
16 Mark Aguirre

Power Forwards
1 Tim Duncan
2 Karl Malone
3 Kevin Garnett
4 Bob Pettit
5 Charles Barkley
6 Dirk Nowitzki
7 Elvin Hayes
8  Jerry Lucas
9 Dolph Schayes
10 Kevin McHale
11 Dennis Rodman
12 Chris Webber
13 Larry Nance
14 Connie Hawkins
15 Rasheed Wallace
16 Dan Issel

Centers
1 Wilt Chamberlain
2 Bill Russell
3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Shaquille O'Neal
6 Moses Malone
7 Patrick Ewing
8 David Robinson
9 George Mikan
10 Willis Reed
11 Wes Unseld
12 Robert Parish
13 Walt Bellamy
14 Bob Lanier
15 Dave Cowens
16 Alonzo Mourning



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 03:56 pm
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clawmaster
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Kevin Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

Charles Barkley

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barklch01.html

Dirk Nowitzki

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nowitdi01.html



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 04:01 pm
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clawmaster
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Bob Cousy

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cousybo01.html

Kevin Johnson

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnske02.html

Steve Nash

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html

John Stockton

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html

Nate Tiny Archibald

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/architi01.html

Dennis Johnson

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsde01.html



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 04:04 pm
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clawmaster
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Dr. J Julius Erving

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ervinju01.html

Rick Barry

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barryri01.html

Dominique Wilkins

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wilkido01.html



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 04:05 pm
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clawmaster
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Just posted above the stats for players in the ongoing debates.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 08:29 pm
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clawmaster
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clawmaster wrote: Kevin Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

Charles Barkley

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barklch01.html

Dirk Nowitzki

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nowitdi01.html

Barkley averaged over 20 points and 10 rebounds per game 11 consecutive seasons. He also averaged over 4 assists per game 8 times. One year he had 3.9.

Garnett averaged 20 and 10 nine consecutive times. However in four of those years, he led the league in rebounding. Also a great defender. Blocked shot and steals.

Dirk's career averages are 23 ppg and 8.4 rbg. Both totals would be higher if it wasn't for his rookie season where he averaged 8.2 ppg and 3.4 rpg. A prolific three point shooter in his prime. 87.7% from the free throw line for his career.



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"We are the priests
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 Posted: Sun Oct 16th, 2011 09:56 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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clawmaster wrote: Now speaking of reference.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waltobi01.html

Walton played 10 seasons in the NBA. He averaged 46.8 games per season. The three seasons he was at an All Star Level were with Portland in which he played 51, 65 and 58 regular season games.

3 All Star level seasons out of 10. He makes the top 50 players of all time. WTF!! If anything by making that list, he's the most overrated NBA player of all time.

I've been saying that from the beginning. Walton was a stiff in the Pros after He hurt His Foot.



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 Posted: Sun Oct 16th, 2011 09:57 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: clawmaster wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote: clawmaster wrote: Some slight alterations. Billy Cunningham moved up. Bobby Jones moved down. Chris Mullin moved up. Sam Jones moved down. George Gervin moved down. Clyde Drexler moved up. Reggie Miller moved up. John Stockton moved down. Walt Frazier moved up. Gary Payton moved up. Jason Kidd moved up. Dominque seems fine at number five. Not convinced he was better than Dr. J or Rick Barry. 

What about Bill Walton? I would rather see Mourning in there then Walton.

That very well could happen tonight. Walton is a what if guy. Fact is he did hurt his foot.

Top 50 trumps all arguments.

If He didn't play for Boston, would You still have the same opinion about Fragile Bill?



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 Posted: Sun Oct 16th, 2011 10:37 pm
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clawmaster
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The funny thing is we are arguing about the player that is going to job to Wilt in the first round.



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 Posted: Sun Oct 16th, 2011 11:59 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: clawmaster wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote: clawmaster wrote: Some slight alterations. Billy Cunningham moved up. Bobby Jones moved down. Chris Mullin moved up. Sam Jones moved down. George Gervin moved down. Clyde Drexler moved up. Reggie Miller moved up. John Stockton moved down. Walt Frazier moved up. Gary Payton moved up. Jason Kidd moved up. Dominque seems fine at number five. Not convinced he was better than Dr. J or Rick Barry. 

What about Bill Walton? I would rather see Mourning in there then Walton.

That very well could happen tonight. Walton is a what if guy. Fact is he did hurt his foot.

Top 50 trumps all arguments.

If He didn't play for Boston, would You still have the same opinion about Fragile Bill?

Absolutely. He made his rep in Portland, not Boston.
That's like you saying the only reason I think Tom Seaver was one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived because he played for the Red Sox. Just silly.



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 Posted: Mon Oct 17th, 2011 12:00 am
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dogfacedgremlin34
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clawmaster wrote:
The funny thing is we are arguing about the player that is going to job to Wilt in the first round.

But that's half the fun...the early round matchups.
If I had my druthers, I would've matched him up against Kareem for UCLA supremacy.



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