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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 01:29 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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I guess I didn't consider the 1993 season him getting a ring since he didn't actually contribute in the playoffs as he was left off the playing roster because he sucked so badly during the regular season.

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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 01:42 pm
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HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Those are tools used for measuring Hall Of Fame candidacy.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 03:42 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 03:44 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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As much of a Douchebag Schilling is/was, He was a better pitcher then Morris.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 03:51 pm
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freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 05:13 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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silentkiller wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?


Exactly.  I'm no Sabermatrician, but Sabermetrics has completely revolutionized the game and the business of the game.  You only have to quicly peruse "Moneyball" to see how much influence Sabermetrics has.  Teams who are following the traditional AVG./HR/RBI formula for evaluating their talent are the teams that are getting left in the dust.

And to answer HBF's question, I'm too lazy to look up the precise definition at the moment, but IIRC grey ink/black ink refers to how many times a particular player led his league/finished in the top ten in his league in a particular offensive category, and then it's applied against a formula.  The theory is that traditional HoFers will be amongst the leaders in offensive categories. 



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 06:40 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: silentkiller wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?


Exactly.  I'm no Sabermatrician, but Sabermetrics has completely revolutionized the game and the business of the game.  You only have to quicly peruse "Moneyball" to see how much influence Sabermetrics has.  Teams who are following the traditional AVG./HR/RBI formula for evaluating their talent are the teams that are getting left in the dust.

And we've seen how successful the A's have been in the playoffs. 

Sabermetrics is like anything else, fine in moderation but when overused or used in place of common sense it'll kill you.  If the A's used MIT geeks during the '70s and '80s, they would've never brought Rickey Henderson to the team.  The A's would've had just as much success consulting with 95-year old scouts.  Zero World Series wins and a whopping 1 playoff series victory.  Go Sabermetrics!

By the way, this is nothing new.  Using this type of statistical analysis to track things that are illogical have been around for more than 50 years.  These same people used the same type of formulas to try to track the stock market.  That worked out well for them too.  If they had been successful there, they wouldn't have resorted to trying it on baseball.  Like they're gonna have a better chance of figuring out Manny Ramirez than Enron.

Last edited on Sat Jan 9th, 2010 06:45 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 07:52 pm
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silentkiller



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srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: silentkiller wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?


Exactly.  I'm no Sabermatrician, but Sabermetrics has completely revolutionized the game and the business of the game.  You only have to quicly peruse "Moneyball" to see how much influence Sabermetrics has.  Teams who are following the traditional AVG./HR/RBI formula for evaluating their talent are the teams that are getting left in the dust.

And we've seen how successful the A's have been in the playoffs. 

Sabermetrics is like anything else, fine in moderation but when overused or used in place of common sense it'll kill you.  If the A's used MIT geeks during the '70s and '80s, they would've never brought Rickey Henderson to the team.  The A's would've had just as much success consulting with 95-year old scouts.  Zero World Series wins and a whopping 1 playoff series victory.  Go Sabermetrics!

By the way, this is nothing new.  Using this type of statistical analysis to track things that are illogical have been around for more than 50 years.  These same people used the same type of formulas to try to track the stock market.  That worked out well for them too.  If they had been successful there, they wouldn't have resorted to trying it on baseball.  Like they're gonna have a better chance of figuring out Manny Ramirez than Enron.

Rickey Henderson's value is actually much higher among sabermetricians than non-sabermetricians so you're wrong in that stating that.

With an ownership that doesn't spend to keep players and a payroll that's usually among the bottom teams in the league, the A's are a sabermetrics success story. If they had $100 million more to spend on payroll every year and had the ability to keep their best players like the Yankees do, then the A's would have a lot more than one playoff series.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 08:13 pm
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silentkiller wrote: srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: silentkiller wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?


Exactly.  I'm no Sabermatrician, but Sabermetrics has completely revolutionized the game and the business of the game.  You only have to quicly peruse "Moneyball" to see how much influence Sabermetrics has.  Teams who are following the traditional AVG./HR/RBI formula for evaluating their talent are the teams that are getting left in the dust.

And we've seen how successful the A's have been in the playoffs. 

Sabermetrics is like anything else, fine in moderation but when overused or used in place of common sense it'll kill you.  If the A's used MIT geeks during the '70s and '80s, they would've never brought Rickey Henderson to the team.  The A's would've had just as much success consulting with 95-year old scouts.  Zero World Series wins and a whopping 1 playoff series victory.  Go Sabermetrics!

By the way, this is nothing new.  Using this type of statistical analysis to track things that are illogical have been around for more than 50 years.  These same people used the same type of formulas to try to track the stock market.  That worked out well for them too.  If they had been successful there, they wouldn't have resorted to trying it on baseball.  Like they're gonna have a better chance of figuring out Manny Ramirez than Enron.

Rickey Henderson's value is actually much higher among sabermetricians than non-sabermetricians so you're wrong in that stating that.

Sabermeticians don't even believe in stealing bases and have a seizure at the idea of EVER trying to steal third, a Henderson specialty, so I have no idea what you base that on.  The idea of his value being any higher is ridiculous because every scout and casual fan is in love with him and his traditional scouts.  His value can't get any higher.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 08:15 pm
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silentkiller wrote: victhestick wrote: I'd take Jack Morris any day of the week, big game pitcher.
Curt Schilling's postseason numbers blow away Morris and Schilling was better in big games than Morris. I think Schilling was better than Morris by a wide margin.

Jack Morris didn't need to invent bloody socks to spread his legend. Then there's the fact that Curt Schilling could've been juicing along with the other 75% of major leaguers of his time. I''ll take Jack Morris, the only thing unnatural about Morris was the length of his moustache.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 08:19 pm
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silentkiller



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srossi wrote: silentkiller wrote: srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: silentkiller wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?


Exactly.  I'm no Sabermatrician, but Sabermetrics has completely revolutionized the game and the business of the game.  You only have to quicly peruse "Moneyball" to see how much influence Sabermetrics has.  Teams who are following the traditional AVG./HR/RBI formula for evaluating their talent are the teams that are getting left in the dust.

And we've seen how successful the A's have been in the playoffs. 

Sabermetrics is like anything else, fine in moderation but when overused or used in place of common sense it'll kill you.  If the A's used MIT geeks during the '70s and '80s, they would've never brought Rickey Henderson to the team.  The A's would've had just as much success consulting with 95-year old scouts.  Zero World Series wins and a whopping 1 playoff series victory.  Go Sabermetrics!

By the way, this is nothing new.  Using this type of statistical analysis to track things that are illogical have been around for more than 50 years.  These same people used the same type of formulas to try to track the stock market.  That worked out well for them too.  If they had been successful there, they wouldn't have resorted to trying it on baseball.  Like they're gonna have a better chance of figuring out Manny Ramirez than Enron.

Rickey Henderson's value is actually much higher among sabermetricians than non-sabermetricians so you're wrong in that stating that.

Sabermeticians don't even believe in stealing bases and have a seizure at the idea of EVER trying to steal third, a Henderson specialty, so I have no idea what you base that on.  The idea of his value being any higher is ridiculous because every scout and casual fan is in love with him and his traditional scouts.  His value can't get any higher.
 

I base it on Rickey Henderson generally ranking in the Top 20 of the greatest players ever polls by most sabermetricians. I have never seen him ranked that high in a non-sabermetrics poll. 

Sabermetrics guys are also currently the strongest supporters of the induction of Tim Raines into the Hall.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 08:20 pm
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silentkiller wrote: srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: silentkiller wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?


Exactly.  I'm no Sabermatrician, but Sabermetrics has completely revolutionized the game and the business of the game.  You only have to quicly peruse "Moneyball" to see how much influence Sabermetrics has.  Teams who are following the traditional AVG./HR/RBI formula for evaluating their talent are the teams that are getting left in the dust.

And we've seen how successful the A's have been in the playoffs. 

Sabermetrics is like anything else, fine in moderation but when overused or used in place of common sense it'll kill you.  If the A's used MIT geeks during the '70s and '80s, they would've never brought Rickey Henderson to the team.  The A's would've had just as much success consulting with 95-year old scouts.  Zero World Series wins and a whopping 1 playoff series victory.  Go Sabermetrics!

By the way, this is nothing new.  Using this type of statistical analysis to track things that are illogical have been around for more than 50 years.  These same people used the same type of formulas to try to track the stock market.  That worked out well for them too.  If they had been successful there, they wouldn't have resorted to trying it on baseball.  Like they're gonna have a better chance of figuring out Manny Ramirez than Enron.

With an ownership that doesn't spend to keep players and a payroll that's usually among the bottom teams in the league, the A's are a sabermetrics success story. If they had $100 million more to spend on payroll every year and had the ability to keep their best players like the Yankees do, then the A's would have a lot more than one playoff series.

Money has nothing to do with investing in guys with no heart who roll over and die in the playoffs every year.  That's a poor excuse.  The Yankees had tons of relatively cheap role players who came through in the clutch.  Hell, virtually any contending team could've even afforded Paul O'Neill.  But they didn't want him, the Yankees did.  Enough excuses for getting guys who can't win. 



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 10:04 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: silentkiller wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
HBF wrote: What does gray ink and black ink mean? I've never heard of that.
Sabermetrics crap.


This is completely wrong. Gray ink and Black ink are both based on traditional basic stats. And even if it wasn't what's wrong with sabermetrics?


Exactly.  I'm no Sabermatrician, but Sabermetrics has completely revolutionized the game and the business of the game.  You only have to quicly peruse "Moneyball" to see how much influence Sabermetrics has.  Teams who are following the traditional AVG./HR/RBI formula for evaluating their talent are the teams that are getting left in the dust.

And we've seen how successful the A's have been in the playoffs. 

Sabermetrics is like anything else, fine in moderation but when overused or used in place of common sense it'll kill you.  If the A's used MIT geeks during the '70s and '80s, they would've never brought Rickey Henderson to the team.  The A's would've had just as much success consulting with 95-year old scouts.  Zero World Series wins and a whopping 1 playoff series victory.  Go Sabermetrics!

By the way, this is nothing new.  Using this type of statistical analysis to track things that are illogical have been around for more than 50 years.  These same people used the same type of formulas to try to track the stock market.  That worked out well for them too.  If they had been successful there, they wouldn't have resorted to trying it on baseball.  Like they're gonna have a better chance of figuring out Manny Ramirez than Enron.

Preach on Brother Rossi, preach on.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2010 11:31 pm
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If I was starting a team, I'd take Morris. Schilling is such a humongous douchebag, that I wouldn't want him around or I'd be slitting my wrists.

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 Posted: Sun Jan 10th, 2010 03:55 am
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silentkiller wrote: Morris was terrible in 1993 and his postseason numbers in 1992 were terrible. And besides since when did WS rings determine who was a better pitcher? I guess that must mean Whitey Ford is one of the 5 greatest pitchers ever.
It doesn't...i was just making a case for Morris, as so many people put an emphasis on WS rings and so forth. Morris was a helluva "big game pitcher".



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