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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 04:33 pm
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clawmaster
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1 The 1984 Cubs with Cy Young award winner Rick Sutcliffe on the mound losing game 5 of the NLCS to the San Diego Padres.

2 Fuck you Alex Gonzales. The Cubs losing the NLCS to The Florida Marlins. Forget the year. I don't wanna remember anything more about it.

3 The DePaul Blue Demons losing in the first round of the NCAA basketball tourney in 1982.

4 It wasn't a playoff loss or this would be number one. The Cubs choking in 1969.

5 The Hawks losing in the Stanley Cup Finals to Montreal in 1971.

Please note DePaul is no longer my team. I tossed them on the woodpile a long time ago.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 04:39 pm
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kargol



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clawmaster wrote: Please note DePaul is no longer my team. I tossed them on the woodpile a long time ago.

See, this is perhaps why Americans don't "get" football.  It's easier to change sex than change your team.  You won't come across ANYone at a match who said they used to support Arsenal but changed to Chelsea cos they liked the colours better or something.  And you can't up and move a team across the country - it's only ever happened once and there was such an outcry about it the rules were changed to stop it happening again; and the team formed to replace the original is now (in league position terms) back to where they were when they were moved.  Supporter culture in the States is very different to the rest of the world. 



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 04:50 pm
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srossi

 

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kargol wrote: clawmaster wrote: Please note DePaul is no longer my team. I tossed them on the woodpile a long time ago.

See, this is perhaps why Americans don't "get" football.  It's easier to change sex than change your team.  You won't come across ANYone at a match who said they used to support Arsenal but changed to Chelsea cos they liked the colours better or something.  And you can't up and move a team across the country - it's only ever happened once and there was such an outcry about it the rules were changed to stop it happening again; and the team formed to replace the original is now (in league position terms) back to where they were when they were moved.  Supporter culture in the States is very different to the rest of the world. 

That's another ridiculous generality.  Most Americans live and die by their teams even in the bad times too.  And I bet some brits abandon their teams from time to time. 



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 04:56 pm
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1- Games 4-7 of the 2004 ALCS when Boston beat the Yankess. It was one, giant, painful few days.

2 - Game 7 of the 2001 World Series when Arizona beat the Yankees in the bottom of the 9th to win the series.

3 - Game 7 1985 NBA Finals - Lakers def. Celtics. I was really into the Celtics then, and the freaking Celts just didn't lose series at home.

4 - Game 6 2003 World Series - Yankees lose the series to the freaking Florida Marlins.

5 - 1990 NCAA Regional Finals - Duke beats UConn after Christian Laetner hits a buzzer beater.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 04:57 pm
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Walk through certain areas of Manchester, where the United team shirt is the only thing being worn by about 75% of the population, and you might change your mind. If the mega-rich (American) owners did say they wanted to move the club, Manchester would riot. Without a shadow of a doubt.

But back on topic. The Cardinals being dumped out of the playoffs last year by the Dodgers was very very disappointing.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 04:57 pm
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srossi wrote: kargol wrote: clawmaster wrote: Please note DePaul is no longer my team. I tossed them on the woodpile a long time ago.

See, this is perhaps why Americans don't "get" football.  It's easier to change sex than change your team.  You won't come across ANYone at a match who said they used to support Arsenal but changed to Chelsea cos they liked the colours better or something.  And you can't up and move a team across the country - it's only ever happened once and there was such an outcry about it the rules were changed to stop it happening again; and the team formed to replace the original is now (in league position terms) back to where they were when they were moved.  Supporter culture in the States is very different to the rest of the world. 

That's another ridiculous generality.  Most Americans live and die by their teams even in the bad times too.  And I bet some brits abandon their teams from time to time. 


Agreed.  I switched my college teams when I decided on what university I wanted to go to.  I switched NFL and NBA teams when Charlotte got the Panthers and Hornets, and I actually got a "home team" to root for.

And I find it hard to believe the relegation in English futbol doesn't lead to at least temporary shifts in allegiances.  And to defend clawmaster, DePaul was a power in the 1970s and through a good part of the 1980s, and have mostly toiled in basketball purgatory since, despite their presence in good conferences.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 05:08 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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retroken wrote: 5. Marvin Hagler loses split decision (robbed of middleweight title) to Sugar Ray Leonard  1987  *I know this is not a team loss but Hagler was adored by the Boston faithful and I personally wept at the injustice of this decision*




This is a great one.  It's why to this day I can't stand Leonard.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 05:15 pm
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tofu, it really doesn't. There's a team called Sheffield Wednesday, and they've dropped two divisions in recent years. Their attendance has stayed roughly the same - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheffield_Wednesday_F.C. (go to the support section).

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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 05:29 pm
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I don't think this is really as big a disagreement as it appears it might become.  Americans tend to be more transient and the allegiances usually travel with the individual.  I was a Cubs fane, but within I few years of moving to SoCal I adopted the Angels.  Likewise the Chargers. 




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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 05:36 pm
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I grew up liking the Oakland Raiders of all things. Most of my friends were Steelers and Cowboys fans and the Eagles sucked. This was all pre-internet so as time wore on the Eagles were much easier to follow and keep track of than the Raiders.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 06:04 pm
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clawmaster
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Re: college sports in the Chicago area

I'm not catholic. There's no way I'd ever root for Notre Dame. I'd never root for the Fighting Illini. Really I enjoy rooting against Notre Dame and Illinois.

As for DePaul, this is a you had to be there at the time thing. They had a good run of recruiting getting Dave Corzine, Mark Aguirre, Terry Cummings, Tyrone Corbin etc etc. Then they started sucking again. So I jumped off the bandwagon.

When it comes to college football and college basketball these days, I don't have a specific favorite team. Northwestern football once in a while when they are good.

In pro sports, I do have favorite teams and yes they are local. Cubs. Bulls. Bears. Hawks.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 06:11 pm
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tofu_chipmunk wrote: srossi wrote: kargol wrote: clawmaster wrote: Please note DePaul is no longer my team. I tossed them on the woodpile a long time ago.

See, this is perhaps why Americans don't "get" football.  It's easier to change sex than change your team.  You won't come across ANYone at a match who said they used to support Arsenal but changed to Chelsea cos they liked the colours better or something.  And you can't up and move a team across the country - it's only ever happened once and there was such an outcry about it the rules were changed to stop it happening again; and the team formed to replace the original is now (in league position terms) back to where they were when they were moved.  Supporter culture in the States is very different to the rest of the world. 

That's another ridiculous generality.  Most Americans live and die by their teams even in the bad times too.  And I bet some brits abandon their teams from time to time. 


Agreed.  I switched my college teams when I decided on what university I wanted to go to.  I switched NFL and NBA teams when Charlotte got the Panthers and Hornets, and I actually got a "home team" to root for.

So your evidence that Rossi is right is to provide evidence that I am right?

Some people stop going if their team descends down the divisions.  True enough.  But that's usually cos it's expensive to watch rubbish.  Leeds were getting 30,000 last year in the third division.  Imagine someone in AAA or whatever it would be baseball getting 180,000.  Our average attendance has been over 20,000 for about 15 years even though we've never won anything and have three much more successful teams within 15 miles.   And if people stop going, they do NOT support anyone else.  It's inhuman.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 06:22 pm
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5. 2006 Sugar Bowl. Can I count this? West Virginia rips UGA's offense in the first half. Bad officiating nips Georgia's comeback short in the second half.

4. Division II playoffs, 2001. Valdosta State is undefeated and averaging 49 points per game (and giving up an average of 13). This includes a 70-12 blowout on the road of #1 ranked Delta State. They host Catawba College. VSU's defense collapses after a big lead and Catawba wins in overtime, 37-34. One of those instances where a team was just too good during the regular season and faced no competition until the playoffs, where they weren't prepared. As Division II television coverage was even more primitive than it is now, I got to see this thing in person.

3. Game 7 of the 1997 NLCS. Screw you, Eric Gregg.

2. Game 4 of the 1996 World Series. It's worse in retrospect because Jim Leyritz's homer effectively ended Mark Wohlers' career. He was never the same after that, though he did have a statistically good 1997. Yankees would win the next two as Atlanta was completely deflated.

1. Game 7 of the 1991 World Series. I have two Braves highlight tapes from 1991. I still can't watch anything after Game 5 on either one.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 06:29 pm
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kargol wrote: tofu_chipmunk wrote: srossi wrote: kargol wrote: clawmaster wrote: Please note DePaul is no longer my team. I tossed them on the woodpile a long time ago.

See, this is perhaps why Americans don't "get" football.  It's easier to change sex than change your team.  You won't come across ANYone at a match who said they used to support Arsenal but changed to Chelsea cos they liked the colours better or something.  And you can't up and move a team across the country - it's only ever happened once and there was such an outcry about it the rules were changed to stop it happening again; and the team formed to replace the original is now (in league position terms) back to where they were when they were moved.  Supporter culture in the States is very different to the rest of the world. 

That's another ridiculous generality.  Most Americans live and die by their teams even in the bad times too.  And I bet some brits abandon their teams from time to time. 


Agreed.  I switched my college teams when I decided on what university I wanted to go to.  I switched NFL and NBA teams when Charlotte got the Panthers and Hornets, and I actually got a "home team" to root for.

So your evidence that Rossi is right is to provide evidence that I am right?

Some people stop going if their team descends down the divisions.  True enough.  But that's usually cos it's expensive to watch rubbish.  Leeds were getting 30,000 last year in the third division.  Imagine someone in AAA or whatever it would be baseball getting 180,000.  Our average attendance has been over 20,000 for about 15 years even though we've never won anything and have three much more successful teams within 15 miles.   And if people stop going, they do NOT support anyone else.  It's inhuman.


I agree with your assessment to an extent, but I think the main difference between the American sporting rooting interest and the British one that you're missing is the number of sports for which to root.  Consider the four major American sports.  We're talking about 120 or so major professional franchises spread across...what?...50 or so different cities?  And that's not even taking into account Division 1 college sports.  Then you take that 120 number and quadruple it and take that 50 number and triple or quadruple it.  Now we're talking nearly 500 teams in probably 200 or more cities for whom to root.    

Now let's examine the British alternative.  Besides football, what other sporting event are you going to attend live on a regular basis?  Rugby?  To my knowledge, there's no provincial teams to speak of, nor does it evoke the same passion that football does (whereas in America, the passion one fan has for, say, baseball may be equal to the passion he has for basketball).  Cricket?  Don't make me laugh.  That's even more of a niche event than rugby.  What else do you have?  I know there's some fringe ice hockey and basketball leagues, but those are probably the equivalent of American D leagues and probably even more of a niche thing than cricket. 

So what's the point?  Team sports in America comes with options, especially with different types of sports, thus there's much less of a "pigeonhole".  So your pro baseball team's doing crappy?  Oh well.  There's only two more months until college football starts.  See, knowing that eases the pain of a crappy baseball team quite a bit, and perhaps as a result, you become a bit less "rabid" of a fan in comparison to their British counterpart.  The bottom line is, all team sports in America are in direct competition not only within their own league (think the stink the Baltimore Orioles put up a few years ago when it was announced that the Montreal Expos would be moving 40 miles to the south to DC, in direct competition with thier market) but with all other team sports as well. 

In Britain though, football (soccer) is pretty much it as far as team sports go.  It's an island unto itself, and they have a virtual monopoply on mainstream sporting rooting interests.  On top of that, you add in this ingrained element of rabid provinciality that more often than not finds its roots at the local pub, and viola--you have dedicated, lifelong fans of a team regardless of how well or poorly said team is doing.  Hence the outcome is the perception that the Brits are more "loyal" to their teams; in actuality though, you've few if any other options, and will continue to root for your team regardless not so much out of loyalty, but rather just so you can have something to do during the winter.   

Now please note that I'm not saying the British version of rooting for sports is better than the American version, or vice versa.  I'm just saying they're different, that's all.


Last edited on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 07:15 pm by dogfacedgremlin34



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 06:32 pm
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srossi

 

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kargol wrote: tofu_chipmunk wrote: srossi wrote: kargol wrote: clawmaster wrote: Please note DePaul is no longer my team. I tossed them on the woodpile a long time ago.

See, this is perhaps why Americans don't "get" football.  It's easier to change sex than change your team.  You won't come across ANYone at a match who said they used to support Arsenal but changed to Chelsea cos they liked the colours better or something.  And you can't up and move a team across the country - it's only ever happened once and there was such an outcry about it the rules were changed to stop it happening again; and the team formed to replace the original is now (in league position terms) back to where they were when they were moved.  Supporter culture in the States is very different to the rest of the world. 

That's another ridiculous generality.  Most Americans live and die by their teams even in the bad times too.  And I bet some brits abandon their teams from time to time. 


Agreed.  I switched my college teams when I decided on what university I wanted to go to.  I switched NFL and NBA teams when Charlotte got the Panthers and Hornets, and I actually got a "home team" to root for.

So your evidence that Rossi is right is to provide evidence that I am right?

Some people stop going if their team descends down the divisions.  True enough.  But that's usually cos it's expensive to watch rubbish. 

And that's different from America how exactly?  That's exactly what fans of bad teams say here.  It's not like every Pirates fan suddenly became a Yankees fan in the mid-'90s.  No, they just abndoned their team because it was too expensive and too time-consuming to support one that didn't care, and they abandoned the sport with it.  They poured that money into the Steelers or some other local team in another sport. 



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