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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 07:37 pm
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kargol



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Cos there are people here who have admitted changing their teams.  And what happened when the Dodgers moved to California?  The equivalent here saw fans create a new team and they're now one step away from the League.  Aldershot and Accrington both went bust but fans founded new teams and they are both now back in the League (it took Accrington over 40 years to get back).  Fans do not desert their teams.  Some may stop going, but they still follow them, and get back when the economy/team takes an upturn. 

Rugby has some areas where it is the dominant team sport, but they're pretty limited - south-west (union) and between Liverpool and Manchester/around York (league).  But there are a number of people who follow football and cricket in particular as the seasons are not contiguous, just look at the next England tour and see how many flags pay tribute to football teams.  You'd be surprised how many watch one-day matches in cricket, and Tests are often sold out for all five days.  The problem with county cricket is that people won't take 4 days off work to watch a national match.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 07:44 pm
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srossi

 

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kargol wrote: Cos there are people here who have admitted changing their teams.  And what happened when the Dodgers moved to California?  The equivalent here saw fans create a new team and they're now one step away from the League.  Aldershot and Accrington both went bust but fans founded new teams and they are both now back in the League (it took Accrington over 40 years to get back).  Fans do not desert their teams.  Some may stop going, but they still follow them, and get back when the economy/team takes an upturn. 

The Mets eventually replaced the Dodgers and Giants as the N.L. representative in NY and a lot of those old fans became Mets fans.  And if you're basing your entire perception of American sports fans on what 3 people on a wrestling message said about switching allegiances, then your sample is flawed to say the least.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 07:50 pm
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Count Grog
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I have changed allegncies for various reasons.

Pirates fan tell death (please sell them and relocate them to Charlotte)

Vikings fan till death but follow the local Carolina Panthers some.  Steelers sucked when I started watching football, Vikings were good so thats where I made my choice and grew up in Western Pennsylvania in the 1970's holding my guns and getting my ass kicked over it.

Hockey grew up a Blackhawks fan-The Pens like the Steelers sucked when I started to watch so made the Blackhawks my team  but when they started to really suck the Hurricanes moved here so easy transition (plus working at the arena helps)  team.

Basketball I really don't follow- no Pittsburgh team (Condors never counted) So first a Atlanta Hawks fan because of pete Maravich, then a 76ers Fan because of DR J when Charles Barkley joined them I quit following them.  Was a luke warm Charlotte Hornets fan same with  Bobcats.  I check the standings and box scores and watch 3-5 minutes here and there.

College Sports grew up a Pitt Fan but visited campus and hated it while lo ved WVU so wemnt theer and changed my allegence.  WVU not condusive to graduating so after moving down here I finished at NC State and support them unless they play WVU.  They are so mediocre at everything its hard to be hard core but over time I have seen way more State Football and basketball games than WVU.  Also got another degree from Appalachain State and pull for them.

 

Last edited on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 07:52 pm by Count Grog



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 08:32 pm
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kargol



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srossi wrote: kargol wrote: Cos there are people here who have admitted changing their teams.  And what happened when the Dodgers moved to California?  The equivalent here saw fans create a new team and they're now one step away from the League.  Aldershot and Accrington both went bust but fans founded new teams and they are both now back in the League (it took Accrington over 40 years to get back).  Fans do not desert their teams.  Some may stop going, but they still follow them, and get back when the economy/team takes an upturn. 

The Mets eventually replaced the Dodgers and Giants as the N.L. representative in NY and a lot of those old fans became Mets fans.  And if you're basing your entire perception of American sports fans on what 3 people on a wrestling message said about switching allegiances, then your sample is flawed to say the least.


Amazingly enough, I do know some Americans who are not wrestling fans.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 09:50 pm
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2. Niners (going for the 3-peat) running out clock vs the Giants . Roger Craig fumbles .Giants kick FG and knock Niners out of playoffs. 

1. Giants 6 outs away from winning World Series vs Angels. Leading 5-0 Starter Russ Ortiz allows the first 2 hitters to reach base. Dusty Baker pulls Ortiz and bullpen gives up 6 runs in the last two innings.

 



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 11:50 pm
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1. 2004 ALCS: NY Yankees lose to the Red Sox
2. 2003 WS: NY Yankees lose to the Florida Marlins. They had NO business losing that one.
3. 2001 WS: NY Yankees lose to the Diamondbacks in a fantastic series.
4. 2000 Super Bowl: NY Giants lose to the Ravens after destroying the Vikings in the NFC title game. Kerry Collins plays the most gutless football I have ever witnessed.
5. 1981 WS: NY Yankees lose to LA Dodgers as Dave Winfield acquires the moniker "Mr. May".



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 Posted: Fri Jun 18th, 2010 11:54 pm
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Chitown Rich

 

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1983 ALCS White Sox lose to Orioles. Jerry Dyb thrown out by a mile to help kill the Sox.

1987 & 88 Bears blow back to back playoff games against Redskins at home. So much for Ditka being a "great" coach.

1971 Black Hawks blow lead and playoff game to Canadiens at home. The local bar had the game on satellite and  the owner let us watch the game there.


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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 01:56 am
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1. The Catch
2. The Seattle Slip
3. Loss to Giants in '07 playoffs
4. Loss to Rams in '79 playoffs (Staubach's last game)
5. I'll say the Ice Bowl even though I was three months old.



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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 02:13 am
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clawmaster
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Chitown Rich wrote:

1987 & 88 Bears blow back to back playoff games against Redskins at home. So much for Ditka being a "great" coach.


Especially the game where the Bears punted the ball to Hall Of Famer Darrell Green. Kick the ball out of bounds you idiots.



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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 02:18 am
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My list is a little bit different than you'd think because the most disappointing Bills Super Bowl moments happened when I was a little kid, so I didn't have a ton invested in it.

1. Game 6 1999 Stanley Cup Finals. Obvious one. Just total incompetence, which I think was a big factor in the NHL becoming a huge joke in the US to a lot of people. It seems that just in this past year as the league started to recover some image.

2. Game 7 2006 Eastern Conference NHL Finals. Sabres probably win the Cup if 5,623 defenseman do not get hurt. Minor league scrub Rory Fitzpatrick blows it in the third period defensively. Raleigh, whose area may have had more Sabres fans than Hurricanes fans lurking around during that series wins the Cup out of it. I'm sure Cory will list Ty Conklin if he comes in here.

3. Music City Miracle because it was yet another blown call. Good job by the NFL having the instant replay machine right next to a huge crowd of Titans fans.

4. Super Bowl 25

5. Week 17 2004 season. Bills vs. the Steelers' third string. Bills make the playoffs with a win, but instead, Drew Bledslow writes his ticket out of town with a disastrously arrogant performance. It all started off bad when he defied the Head Coach on the opening coin toss.

As a Yankees fan, I could have said 2004 ALCS, but I called it on OLC at the time. The Yankees scored 19 runs or whatever in Game 3, and that team always disappeared for a week after having scored a bunch of runs.

 

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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 02:32 am
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1980- Flyers lose to the Islanders on a bogus non-offsides call in 6 games

1997- Flyers get swept by the Red Wings in 4 straight.

2004- Eagles losing the Super Bowl against the Patriots

2008- Eagles loses NFC Championship game to the Cardinals

2002- Eagles lose to Tampa in the NFC Championship game



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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 04:30 am
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tofu_chipmunk



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That's what I get for rushing a reply and not supporting it well before driving my wife to an appointment.

I switched allegiances in my NBA and NFL teams because teams were added in my home market, which was something I always wanted as a North Carolinian, since there were no real local teams.  If that makes me a bandwagon fan, so be it, but I've stuck with the teams in the North Carolina market, despite their lack of success.

I was a general ACC fan in college sports until I decided I wanted to go to Duke and have supported Duke teams ever since.  Don't call me a bandwagoner when I've put up with Duke football for the last twenty years.  What allegiances I've switched have been due to major changes in the leagues, or in my life.  In pro sports, I've seen "my" team win two championships in all my life, the 1983 76ers and the 1995 Braves.  I've been more fortunate in college basketball.

I don't think allegiance has much to do with why Americans haven't taken to soccer/football/futbol.  I think it's more the American style to take to American things, and while one can debate the origins of baseball, football, and basketball, they were all popularized in the United States.  Soccer was not popularized here, and has had a harder time breaking through.  I personally think soccer is probably a "purer" sport than any of the more popular team sports in the United States.  The objective is so simple.   Eleven players are trying to put the ball into the opponents' goal while trying to prevent their opponents from doing the same.  It truly is beautiful in its simplicity.  I know there are nuances far beyond that, but the objective of the game is so pure.  As I've gotten older, I've grown to have a greater appreciation for just how difficult it is to put that ball in the opponents' goal, and don't mind the low scores a bit.

Most American sports enthusiasts have the impression that the world is calling them stupid or uncultured for not loving the sport as much as those from other countries do.  As a result, many get defensive about that and point out what they see to be shortcomings of the sport, and we get these standoffs over the issue.  People don't like being called uncouth, and people don't like others disparaging the game/sport they love.  Both these things are completely understandable.  I think with demographic shifts in the United State and more youth participation, soccer will continue to slowly gain ground.  I don't see MLS ever being as popular as the NFL, MLB, or the NBA.  In southern states, it probably has a shot as being as popular as the NHL at some point.  It's a more TV-friendly product than the NHL, when those damned horns aren't blowing.

And another thing Americans don't get about soccer are the riots.  We just don't get these stadium riots at all.  The American way is to watch sports at home, and go riot in the streets.

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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 08:19 am
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1991- my beloved Detroit Lions LOSE to the Washington Redskins in the NFC title game(after leading 10-0 @ halftime-Mother fucking shitty Lions)

1988-gm 7 loss to the Lakers in the NBA finals. First chance for a team to "three peat" in a bit of time.

2009-SC finals gm 7-FUCK YOU PITTSBURGH PENGUINS(&Chris Osgood)

2006 WS-my Tigers GAVE THAT FUCKING SERIES AWAY to the Cardinals.

2005-NBA finals-Pistons couldve(and shouldve) repeated here, but Larry fucking Brown, couldnt decide what team he wanted to coach, and that fucked us all up. Fuck you Larry Brown

Last edited on Tue Feb 7th, 2012 06:34 am by stingmark



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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 09:28 am
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kargol



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tofu_chipmunk wrote:
Most American sports enthusiasts have the impression that the world is calling them stupid or uncultured for not loving the sport as much as those from other countries do.  As a result, many get defensive about that and point out what they see to be shortcomings of the sport, and we get these standoffs over the issue.  People don't like being called uncouth, and people don't like others disparaging the game/sport they love.  Both these things are completely understandable.  I think with demographic shifts in the United State and more youth participation, soccer will continue to slowly gain ground.  I don't see MLS ever being as popular as the NFL, MLB, or the NBA.  In southern states, it probably has a shot as being as popular as the NHL at some point.  It's a more TV-friendly product than the NHL, when those damned horns aren't blowing.

And another thing Americans don't get about soccer are the riots.  We just don't get these stadium riots at all.  The American way is to watch sports at home, and go riot in the streets.

The world doesn't really care about American support for American sports, what the world does think is calling a baseball competition played in one country the "World" Series is a bit presumptuous.  Especially when the Cubans are more successful at the Olympics.  Stick the Havana Habaneros or whatever in there and let's see a real world championship.

The problem football has is the US media.  Same as NASCAR.  The latter was seriously ignored for years, I remember on my first visit to the States in the early 1990s I was astounded at the coverage NASCAR got - nothing.  Even though it was already the number 2 spectator sport.  But it didn't register with the ingrained attitudes of the primarily north-east sportswriters.  It's obviously muscled its way in since, but it took time and a gigantic bandwagon.  Why would football get coverage when the writers know, understand and love baseball, gridiron and basketball?  And know their audience?



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 Posted: Sat Jun 19th, 2010 10:27 am
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tofu_chipmunk wrote: That's what I get for rushing a reply and not supporting it well before driving my wife to an appointment.

I switched allegiances in my NBA and NFL teams because teams were added in my home market, which was something I always wanted as a North Carolinian, since there were no real local teams.  If that makes me a bandwagon fan, so be it, but I've stuck with the teams in the North Carolina market, despite their lack of success.

I was a general ACC fan in college sports until I decided I wanted to go to Duke and have supported Duke teams ever since.  Don't call me a bandwagoner when I've put up with Duke football for the last twenty years.  What allegiances I've switched have been due to major changes in the leagues, or in my life.  In pro sports, I've seen "my" team win two championships in all my life, the 1983 76ers and the 1995 Braves.  I've been more fortunate in college basketball.

I don't think allegiance has much to do with why Americans haven't taken to soccer/football/futbol.  I think it's more the American style to take to American things, and while one can debate the origins of baseball, football, and basketball, they were all popularized in the United States.  Soccer was not popularized here, and has had a harder time breaking through.  I personally think soccer is probably a "purer" sport than any of the more popular team sports in the United States.  The objective is so simple.   Eleven players are trying to put the ball into the opponents' goal while trying to prevent their opponents from doing the same.  It truly is beautiful in its simplicity.  I know there are nuances far beyond that, but the objective of the game is so pure.  As I've gotten older, I've grown to have a greater appreciation for just how difficult it is to put that ball in the opponents' goal, and don't mind the low scores a bit.

Most American sports enthusiasts have the impression that the world is calling them stupid or uncultured for not loving the sport as much as those from other countries do.  As a result, many get defensive about that and point out what they see to be shortcomings of the sport, and we get these standoffs over the issue.  People don't like being called uncouth, and people don't like others disparaging the game/sport they love.  Both these things are completely understandable.  I think with demographic shifts in the United State and more youth participation, soccer will continue to slowly gain ground.  I don't see MLS ever being as popular as the NFL, MLB, or the NBA.  In southern states, it probably has a shot as being as popular as the NHL at some point.  It's a more TV-friendly product than the NHL, when those damned horns aren't blowing.

And another thing Americans don't get about soccer are the riots.  We just don't get these stadium riots at all.  The American way is to watch sports at home, and go riot in the streets.

First up, and I know this isn't tofu's point, but other sports in the UK. Rugby is huge, but only in certain areas (South West and North-East-ish). Cricket occasionally (although at non-national level, not all that huge). But yes, football is the biggest thing by a long way. We're more interested in non-localised stuff like Formula 1 (where the last two world champions are English).

Back to the point, changing allegiance in sports teams is incredibly rare. Size of country may make a difference, as people can move to the other side of the country and it's still only a few hours journey to see your team. I don't know. I don't think there's anything unique about British DNA, or anything.

Re: the world calling the USA stupid or uncouth, every single time I've seen this happen, it's been the person from the USA who's started the argument by saying "football's rubbish, why do other people like it?" I'm casting my mind back, and I can't come up with a single example of British people criticising the American attitude to football first...simple explanation is, we just don't care if you like it or not. Much the same as your attitude to us and baseball, basketball, ice hockey and American football, but those arguments never start because we don't start them off in forums like this.

I'm prepared to be proved wrong about this, but look at the World Cup thread - things were fine up to thunderbolt weighing in with "I've yet to meet anyone who gives a shit". Then why fucking post in a World Cup thread???

And we've not rioted for a fair old while. We're quite polite these days.

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