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 Posted: Tue Aug 10th, 2010 07:57 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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I'm just thinking about locks or near locks towards the end of their careers, because too many guys still have a long way to go based on speculation

Pitchers:

Mariano Rivera
Trevor Hoffman

Is that it? I can't think of any starters who are near the end of their career who are locks. Moyer's just not a HOFer, and Pettite's still iffy.

DH: Vlad Guerrero. Jim Thome probably if he gets to 600 hr

1b: I'll contend that if Pujols retired at season's end he'd get into the HOF so even though he's not near the end of his career, to me he's already done enough

2b: No one

SS: Derek Jeter

3b: Alex Rodriguez. Close but probably not there is Chipper Jones

OF: Manny Ramirez

I'll Include Griffey since he retired during this season



So is this pretty much it for the classes who retire in the next 5 or so years?

Last edited on Tue Aug 10th, 2010 07:58 pm by Principal_Raditch

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 Posted: Tue Aug 10th, 2010 09:36 pm
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silentkiller



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Principal_Raditch wrote: I'm just thinking about locks or near locks towards the end of their careers, because too many guys still have a long way to go based on speculation

Pitchers:

Mariano Rivera
Trevor Hoffman

Is that it? I can't think of any starters who are near the end of their career who are locks. Moyer's just not a HOFer, and Pettite's still iffy.

DH: Vlad Guerrero. Jim Thome probably if he gets to 600 hr

1b: I'll contend that if Pujols retired at season's end he'd get into the HOF so even though he's not near the end of his career, to me he's already done enough

2b: No one

SS: Derek Jeter

3b: Alex Rodriguez. Close but probably not there is Chipper Jones

OF: Manny Ramirez

I'll Include Griffey since he retired during this season



So is this pretty much it for the classes who retire in the next 5 or so years?

Chipper Jones is definitely making it to the Hall Of Fame and has been a lock for 3 years now. Jim Thome if he retired now at this moment also should definitely be going into the Hall. You don't put up numbers for as many years as Thome has and don't make it to the Hall. Ichiro has also clinched a spot in the Hall in my opinion.



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 Posted: Tue Aug 10th, 2010 09:46 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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How about Ivan Rodriguez?  He'll be an interesting case, I think, since he's at a position that's not very well represented in the Hall, yet he was juiced to the gills during his most formative years.



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 Posted: Tue Aug 10th, 2010 10:15 pm
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PeteF3

 

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Mariano Rivera
Trevor Hoffman

I'm a bigger-Hall guy but I in no way think Hoffman belongs.  He's the all-time leader in a junk stat, the guy he displaced isn't going into the HOF, and his pitching in "big games" is absolutely abysmal--I hold closers to a higher standard in that particular regard than everyday players or pitchers.  There are very, very few HOF-caliber closers, but as far as active guys I think Wagner may end up with a better resume when all is said and done.

Is that it? I can't think of any starters who are near the end of their career who are locks. Moyer's just not a HOFer, and Pettite's still iffy.
I wasn't sold on Pettitte for awhile but the guy keeps on pitching and pitching well.  I may have to reconsider.

He retired last year but Mike Mussina should go in.  I would say Johan, Halladay, CC, and Tim Hudson are building strong cases.  Chris Carpenter is a longer way off but I could see him building an eventual case.

In addition to CC and Halladay, Mark Buehrle strikes me as the active guy most likely to reach 300 wins.  It would be a Don Sutton-esque career but with a no-hitter, a perfect game, and postseason heroics it should be enough to get him in easily should he pull it off.

DH: Vlad Guerrero. Jim Thome probably if he gets to 600 hr

1b: I'll contend that if Pujols retired at season's end he'd get into the HOF so even though he's not near the end of his career, to me he's already done enough

Agreed.  He's reached the 10-year threshold.

Two guys on the cusp would be Todd Helton and Carlos Delgado (technically still active, or will be very soon)

2b: No one

Not that he passes the Bus Test yet, but if I had to pick a Most Likely HOFer among current 2B it would be Chase Utley.

SS: Derek Jeter

Overrated but still a Hall of Famer.  The Nolan Ryan of position players, though Jeter was a far better player than Ryan was a pitcher.  It really looked like we had a trio of HOF shortstops going all at once with Nomar and Tejada.  I wouldn't say no just yet on either of those guys but they may not make it.

I'm an Indians fan and I find the idea of Omar Vizquel being a Hall of Famer to be ludicrous, but I have a sneaky feeling he's going to get in because he was supposedly "pure" and stuff in a steroid era.

3b: Alex Rodriguez. Close but probably not there is Chipper Jones

Jones isn't close--he punched his ticket awhile ago.

Remember when Eric Chavez looked like a future HOFer?

OF: Manny Ramirez

Yes. 

I also predict that if Jim Edmonds plays well down the stretch (and he's had a great season so far) and the Reds get into the postseason, that legitimate HOF discussion will come up regarding him.  And I'm not sure there'd be much of a case against him.

Johnny Damon is less than 500 hits away from 3,000.  Hardly a guarantee but it'd be hard to keep him out if he made it.

You didn't list catchers, but Ivan Rodriguez should be past discussion at this point, juice or no juice.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 10th, 2010 10:40 pm
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Benlen



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PeteF3 wrote:
I also predict that if Jim Edmonds plays well down the stretch (and he's had a great season so far) and the Reds get into the postseason, that legitimate HOF discussion will come up regarding him.  And I'm not sure there'd be much of a case against him.

No way Jim Edmonds makes the HOF. He's 40 now and has to play next year to reach 2000 hits. Solid ballplayer but no way. Dale Murphy and Vada Pinson should be mentioned before Edmonds.



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 Posted: Tue Aug 10th, 2010 10:49 pm
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PeteF3

 

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He could also get 400 home runs, too.  Add in that he was an elite defensive CF, a good postseason performer, and a better overall hitter than either Murphy (by a little) or Pinson (by a lot) and he has a case.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 10th, 2010 10:59 pm
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Benlen



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PeteF3 wrote: He could also get 400 home runs, too.  Add in that he was an elite defensive CF, a good postseason performer, and a better overall hitter than either Murphy (by a little) or Pinson (by a lot) and he has a case.

Sorry. I don't see it. You and Edmonds may be waiting a long time.



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 Posted: Wed Aug 11th, 2010 04:43 am
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freebirdsforever2001
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Jamie Moyer



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 Posted: Wed Aug 11th, 2010 05:54 am
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Principal_Raditch



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Moyer's ERA is terrible. He's a career 4.24. Worst ERA in teh HOF is 3.8. There are only 7 pitchers in there with ERA's over 3.5 and none of them even pitched in the last 50 years.

Out of starters who pitched the last 50 years Phil Neikro has the worst era at 3.35.

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 Posted: Wed Aug 11th, 2010 09:09 pm
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stingmark



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Principal_Raditch wrote: Moyer's ERA is terrible. He's a career 4.24. Worst ERA in teh HOF is 3.8. There are only 7 pitchers in there with ERA's over 3.5 and none of them even pitched in the last 50 years.

Out of starters who pitched the last 50 years Phil Neikro has the worst era at 3.35.

"If" Moyer goes in...then Jack Morris has to as well.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 12th, 2010 04:04 am
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PeteF3

 

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If Moyer does in fact make it to age 50 as an effective or even semi-effective pitcher I could be talked into saying, "Fuck all the stats--induct the geezer."  That said, there's a decent chance that Moyer's career is now over.

By the way, Jim Edmonds >>> Jim Rice.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 12th, 2010 05:16 am
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stingmark



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PeteF3 wrote: By the way, Jim Edmonds >>> Jim Rice.

That would mean Edmonds goes into the HOF, since Rice is now in?



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 Posted: Thu Aug 12th, 2010 07:08 am
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silentkiller



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stingmark wrote:
PeteF3 wrote: By the way, Jim Edmonds >>> Jim Rice.

That would mean Edmonds goes into the HOF, since Rice is now in?


Saying someone is better than Jim Rice doesn't exactly equal a HOF selection. There are at least 10 players who were equal to or better than Jim Rice who are not in the HOF.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 12th, 2010 02:36 pm
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PeteF3

 

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I never said Edmonds was a Hall of Famer.  Just that he deserves consideration--moreso than he's going to get unless he has a major renaissance for the rest of the year.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 12th, 2010 03:29 pm
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Count Grog
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its REALLY hard to get in the Hall these days and if guys like Bert Bleyleven and Jack Morris can't get in well they had better careers than Andy Pettite or Tim Hudson or Chris Carpenter.  A few good years isn't enough.  Doug Drabek had a few good years and he has no chance of getting in. 

A Rod and Manny will suffer the steroid curse.  If they get in its a long ways away.

Ken Griffey Jr is a 100% first ballot lock.

Jim Thome will get in but will be Jim Rice/ Andre Dawson like in the time frame.  Vlad Guerrero same think maybe longer.  I think same goes for Chipper Jones its going to take 10 years of trying.

Jeter will get in but I don't think the first ballot, maybe but I think 2nd try hes in.

Mariano Rivera gets in maybe first ballot maybe second.  Hoffman well see Lee Smith.

Puljos is a lock already I think unless the steriod thing catches up to him.



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