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 Posted: Fri Jan 28th, 2011 09:32 pm
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Papa Voo



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Borrowed this from a Steelers site:

Three most innovative and best all-around coordinators.

Bud Carson: Inventor of the "Cover Two" defense
Buddy Ryan: Inventor of the "46" defense
Dick LeBeau: Inventor of the "Zone Blitz" defense



Surprisingly, Belichick is getting a lot of feedback in the discussion on the board. Others think Buddy Ryan's "46" was overrated and gimmicky as a system, because it fizzled out so fast.

I like Buddy Ryan. I thought the Eagles and the Bears put up some great defenses.

How about LeBeau?  His defenses were anything but great with his long tenure with the Bengals. Does he belong here? 

Feel free to add.

Last edited on Fri Jan 28th, 2011 09:34 pm by Papa Voo



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 Posted: Fri Jan 28th, 2011 09:36 pm
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HBF



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Bud Carson-better as a tape dealer of illegal WWWF footage.:D

Belichick is less "innovative" than the one's you've mentioned but I would take him over any of them. Just my opinion.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 28th, 2011 11:11 pm
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thunderbolt
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Tom Landry's 'flex' defense and Bum Phillips' 3-4 were both innovative as hell and totally unique back in the day.  These were complete systems with innovative blitz packages and tons of stunts up front, and you can still see their influence today.

It may just be me, but the cover two and zone blitz strike me more as situational options within a grander scheme, not defensive systems in and of themselves.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 29th, 2011 11:20 pm
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The Ultimate Sin
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Ryan's 4-6 to me was a great scheme, but he had tremendous personnel. I think it was more a case of a being innovative with a bunch of pro-bowlers than inventing a great scheme. That's why is disappeared. No one had the personnel to run that shit.

I heard it had no terminology. One blitz was called "cheeseburger" because the guy who blitzed liked cheeseburgers. Because it was so random it was hard to adapt to new players and teams. If cheeseburger was hurt then a new blitz name had to be developed for his back up.

Jeff Fisher and someone eventually took all of Buddy's eccentric names and developed a "proper" football terminology for the system.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 29th, 2011 11:31 pm
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stingmark



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The Ultimate Sin wrote: Ryan's 4-6 to me was a great scheme, but he had tremendous personnel. I think it was more a case of a being innovative with a bunch of pro-bowlers than inventing a great scheme. That's why is disappeared. No one had the personnel to run that shit.

I heard it had no terminology. One blitz was called "cheeseburger" because the guy who blitzed liked cheeseburgers. Because it was so random it was hard to adapt to new players and teams. If cheeseburger was hurt then a new blitz name had to be developed for his back up.

Jeff Fisher and someone eventually took all of Buddy's eccentric names and developed a "proper" football terminology for the system.


He ran that defense for 3-4 yrs  in Chicago didnt he? then another version of it in Philly w/Reggie White/Seth Joyner/Jerome Brown? They might not have run the exact scheme they did in Chicago, But Philly had some pretty good defensive guys ther4e, who could run a hybrid version of it?

People forget that the Bears D was very good for 2-3-4 yrs w/Ryan there.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 30th, 2011 12:35 am
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BayouBoogie



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stingmark wrote:

People forget that the Bears D was very good for 2-3-4 yrs w/Ryan there.


If they forget that, they forget the cornerstone of Ryan's legacy.  And that of the great mid-80s Bears team.


Last edited on Sun Jan 30th, 2011 12:35 am by BayouBoogie

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 Posted: Sun Jan 30th, 2011 07:17 am
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I think LeBeau's record with the Bengals stands up better than people think, they got to the Super Bowl twice and won a couple of division titles while he was there. His time as head coach wasn't great, but then it's hard to fault him since no one else has had much success as a head coach with that team either.

What's more impressive to me is he went to a team with a strong history of great defense and managed to make it even better. The second year into his current run they won a championship and are in their third Super Bowl in 6 years.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 31st, 2011 01:29 am
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freebirdsforever2001
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Jim Johnson and Monte Kiffin were pretty good.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 31st, 2011 09:59 am
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stingmark



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BayouBoogie wrote: stingmark wrote:

People forget that the Bears D was very good for 2-3-4 yrs w/Ryan there.


If they forget that, they forget the cornerstone of Ryan's legacy.  And that of the great mid-80s Bears team.


I agree..most people think that bears D was just one season, but thats not true.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 31st, 2011 01:38 pm
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DaNkinator



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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: Jim Johnson and Monte Kiffin were pretty good.
They were.  I bitch about the Tampa Two that Kiffin and Dungy came up with, because it's not currently working all that well for the Colts.  But when Dungy was there to run it, it was great.


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 Posted: Mon Jan 31st, 2011 01:53 pm
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BayouBoogie



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stingmark wrote: BayouBoogie wrote: stingmark wrote:

People forget that the Bears D was very good for 2-3-4 yrs w/Ryan there.


If they forget that, they forget the cornerstone of Ryan's legacy.  And that of the great mid-80s Bears team.


I agree..most people think that bears D was just one season, but thats not true.

Do you really think people think that? That is the primary legacy of Buddy Ryan, Mike Ditka, and the 80s Bears.  I think that is the number one thing people think of when they think of Ryan and/or the 80s Bears. 

Last edited on Mon Jan 31st, 2011 01:54 pm by BayouBoogie

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 Posted: Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 09:55 pm
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stingmark



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BayouBoogie wrote: stingmark wrote: BayouBoogie wrote: stingmark wrote:

People forget that the Bears D was very good for 2-3-4 yrs w/Ryan there.


If they forget that, they forget the cornerstone of Ryan's legacy.  And that of the great mid-80s Bears team.


I agree..most people think that bears D was just one season, but thats not true.

Do you really think people think that? That is the primary legacy of Buddy Ryan, Mike Ditka, and the 80s Bears.  I think that is the number one thing people think of when they think of Ryan and/or the 80s Bears. 

Somewhat, yeah. They talked about it when the Bears/Packers met in the NFC title game. One of the hosts on thge radiop, kept calling it the "one and done Bears Defense"w, which annoyed me. Called tried pointing out that Yes, the Bears did only win 1 SB with that defense, but it was still vg.....but, they didnt get it. A few callers then sided with the dude about it only beaing a 1 yr wonder...I couldnt believe it. Ive even heard them say it on ESPN a few times, which of course, means nothing. But it is being said. It's stupid IMO, but, some people have said it

Last edited on Wed Feb 2nd, 2011 09:56 pm by stingmark



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