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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 01:34 pm
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yellowdog



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srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: Somehow I doubt the people who object to this felt the same way over the handful of athletes who refused to meet with Bush over the years.  They were right then, and Thomas is right now.  This is a non-story.  He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go and he doesn't even have to respect anyone he doesn't want to respect.  I seem to recall this country being founded on a shocking lack of respect for certain members of royalty.
I would have had the same reaction regardless of political affiliation.  I think I said that in my first post about this.  The first time this pissed me off was when some members of the Ryder Cup team were whining about meeting with Clinton.  It has become a tradition in this country that championship teams get invited to the White House.  It's about respect... respect for the office, respect for the country and respect for the President.  So Rossi, you're suggesting we're on the verge of a revolution like in 1776?  Tim Thomas not going to the White House is like our founders signing the Declaration of Independence and going to war with England? See how silly that looks when you read it?  You have the "right" to do a lot of things.  That doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I see how silly it is when smart people suddenly act dumb to try to prove their point.  This isn't about being on the verge of a revolution, this is about the presidency not being a God-bestowed monarchy and the office not being treated as such in this country, a principle deeply rooted in the very foundation of this country and driven home by George Washington in all of his early speeches after becoming our first president.  This "respect the office" cry is a joke when no one respects the office when it's held by the "other team".  I'd love to see how respectful you'll be to the office if any of this GOP crop actually were elected after all of the "batshit crazy" comments on this board about them.  To betray your opinions and shake the hand of some of these morons just because they have a title is not what this country is about.  I for one wouldn't have been able to look myself in the mirror if I ever shook Bush's hand for a photo op after everything he did, he was nothing short of a monster and a despicable human.  My opinions aren't as strong about Obama but the principle remains the same for his detractors.  So you're either not as principled as you'd like to be or you're lying.  I actually think it's the latter.  This is where the super-partisans run into trouble on this board, the lack of consistency can never be reconciled.  


you're wrong about my respecting the other team.  The only person I called batshit crazy was Michelle Bachmann and I stand by that statement.  I believe professional athletes represent teams, cities, regions and as champions, our country.  Jesus, this isn't a war.  Maybe that's why Dems and GOPs can't get anything done, because they are the mortal enemy and can't even shake the hand of their "enemy."  This "standing up for my rights and principles" is a load. 

Not sure how you got to "not as principled as you'd like to be or lying" Even though I don't consider myself super-partisan, I think I've been extremely consistent in my views and positions here. 



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 01:36 pm
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yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: Somehow I doubt the people who object to this felt the same way over the handful of athletes who refused to meet with Bush over the years.  They were right then, and Thomas is right now.  This is a non-story.  He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go and he doesn't even have to respect anyone he doesn't want to respect.  I seem to recall this country being founded on a shocking lack of respect for certain members of royalty.
I would have had the same reaction regardless of political affiliation.  I think I said that in my first post about this.  The first time this pissed me off was when some members of the Ryder Cup team were whining about meeting with Clinton.  It has become a tradition in this country that championship teams get invited to the White House.  It's about respect... respect for the office, respect for the country and respect for the President.  So Rossi, you're suggesting we're on the verge of a revolution like in 1776?  Tim Thomas not going to the White House is like our founders signing the Declaration of Independence and going to war with England? See how silly that looks when you read it?  You have the "right" to do a lot of things.  That doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I see how silly it is when smart people suddenly act dumb to try to prove their point.  This isn't about being on the verge of a revolution, this is about the presidency not being a God-bestowed monarchy and the office not being treated as such in this country, a principle deeply rooted in the very foundation of this country and driven home by George Washington in all of his early speeches after becoming our first president.  This "respect the office" cry is a joke when no one respects the office when it's held by the "other team".  I'd love to see how respectful you'll be to the office if any of this GOP crop actually were elected after all of the "batshit crazy" comments on this board about them.  To betray your opinions and shake the hand of some of these morons just because they have a title is not what this country is about.  I for one wouldn't have been able to look myself in the mirror if I ever shook Bush's hand for a photo op after everything he did, he was nothing short of a monster and a despicable human.  My opinions aren't as strong about Obama but the principle remains the same for his detractors.  So you're either not as principled as you'd like to be or you're lying.  I actually think it's the latter.  This is where the super-partisans run into trouble on this board, the lack of consistency can never be reconciled.  


you're wrong about my respecting the other team.  The only person I called batshit crazy was Michelle Bachmann and I stand by that statement.  I believe professional athletes represent teams, cities, regions and as champions, our country.  Jesus, this isn't a war.  Maybe that's why Dems and GOPs can't get anything done, because they are the mortal enemy and can't even shake the hand of their "enemy."  This "standing up for my rights and principles" is a load. 

Not sure how you got to "not as principled as you'd like to be or lying" Even though I don't consider myself super-partisan, I think I've been extremely consistent in my views and positions here. 

So if Michelle Bachmann had been elected President and you were in a position to shake her hand and take a picture with her, would you do it? 



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 01:44 pm
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yellowdog



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srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: Somehow I doubt the people who object to this felt the same way over the handful of athletes who refused to meet with Bush over the years.  They were right then, and Thomas is right now.  This is a non-story.  He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go and he doesn't even have to respect anyone he doesn't want to respect.  I seem to recall this country being founded on a shocking lack of respect for certain members of royalty.
I would have had the same reaction regardless of political affiliation.  I think I said that in my first post about this.  The first time this pissed me off was when some members of the Ryder Cup team were whining about meeting with Clinton.  It has become a tradition in this country that championship teams get invited to the White House.  It's about respect... respect for the office, respect for the country and respect for the President.  So Rossi, you're suggesting we're on the verge of a revolution like in 1776?  Tim Thomas not going to the White House is like our founders signing the Declaration of Independence and going to war with England? See how silly that looks when you read it?  You have the "right" to do a lot of things.  That doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I see how silly it is when smart people suddenly act dumb to try to prove their point.  This isn't about being on the verge of a revolution, this is about the presidency not being a God-bestowed monarchy and the office not being treated as such in this country, a principle deeply rooted in the very foundation of this country and driven home by George Washington in all of his early speeches after becoming our first president.  This "respect the office" cry is a joke when no one respects the office when it's held by the "other team".  I'd love to see how respectful you'll be to the office if any of this GOP crop actually were elected after all of the "batshit crazy" comments on this board about them.  To betray your opinions and shake the hand of some of these morons just because they have a title is not what this country is about.  I for one wouldn't have been able to look myself in the mirror if I ever shook Bush's hand for a photo op after everything he did, he was nothing short of a monster and a despicable human.  My opinions aren't as strong about Obama but the principle remains the same for his detractors.  So you're either not as principled as you'd like to be or you're lying.  I actually think it's the latter.  This is where the super-partisans run into trouble on this board, the lack of consistency can never be reconciled.  


you're wrong about my respecting the other team.  The only person I called batshit crazy was Michelle Bachmann and I stand by that statement.  I believe professional athletes represent teams, cities, regions and as champions, our country.  Jesus, this isn't a war.  Maybe that's why Dems and GOPs can't get anything done, because they are the mortal enemy and can't even shake the hand of their "enemy."  This "standing up for my rights and principles" is a load. 

Not sure how you got to "not as principled as you'd like to be or lying" Even though I don't consider myself super-partisan, I think I've been extremely consistent in my views and positions here. 

So if Michelle Bachmann had been elected President and you were in a position to shake her hand and take a picture with her, would you do it? 


yes, for all the reasons I stated. 



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 01:50 pm
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yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: Somehow I doubt the people who object to this felt the same way over the handful of athletes who refused to meet with Bush over the years.  They were right then, and Thomas is right now.  This is a non-story.  He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go and he doesn't even have to respect anyone he doesn't want to respect.  I seem to recall this country being founded on a shocking lack of respect for certain members of royalty.
I would have had the same reaction regardless of political affiliation.  I think I said that in my first post about this.  The first time this pissed me off was when some members of the Ryder Cup team were whining about meeting with Clinton.  It has become a tradition in this country that championship teams get invited to the White House.  It's about respect... respect for the office, respect for the country and respect for the President.  So Rossi, you're suggesting we're on the verge of a revolution like in 1776?  Tim Thomas not going to the White House is like our founders signing the Declaration of Independence and going to war with England? See how silly that looks when you read it?  You have the "right" to do a lot of things.  That doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I see how silly it is when smart people suddenly act dumb to try to prove their point.  This isn't about being on the verge of a revolution, this is about the presidency not being a God-bestowed monarchy and the office not being treated as such in this country, a principle deeply rooted in the very foundation of this country and driven home by George Washington in all of his early speeches after becoming our first president.  This "respect the office" cry is a joke when no one respects the office when it's held by the "other team".  I'd love to see how respectful you'll be to the office if any of this GOP crop actually were elected after all of the "batshit crazy" comments on this board about them.  To betray your opinions and shake the hand of some of these morons just because they have a title is not what this country is about.  I for one wouldn't have been able to look myself in the mirror if I ever shook Bush's hand for a photo op after everything he did, he was nothing short of a monster and a despicable human.  My opinions aren't as strong about Obama but the principle remains the same for his detractors.  So you're either not as principled as you'd like to be or you're lying.  I actually think it's the latter.  This is where the super-partisans run into trouble on this board, the lack of consistency can never be reconciled.  


you're wrong about my respecting the other team.  The only person I called batshit crazy was Michelle Bachmann and I stand by that statement.  I believe professional athletes represent teams, cities, regions and as champions, our country.  Jesus, this isn't a war.  Maybe that's why Dems and GOPs can't get anything done, because they are the mortal enemy and can't even shake the hand of their "enemy."  This "standing up for my rights and principles" is a load. 

Not sure how you got to "not as principled as you'd like to be or lying" Even though I don't consider myself super-partisan, I think I've been extremely consistent in my views and positions here. 

So if Michelle Bachmann had been elected President and you were in a position to shake her hand and take a picture with her, would you do it? 


yes, for all the reasons I stated. 

We need to sticky this thread for posterity for the next time a Republican is in the White House.  I already know the things said about Bush and the way Republicans used the old "respect the office argmument" then, and now it's been reversed.  Another 5 years and it'll go the other way again.  Will make for fun reading. 

Just for the record, anyone who would smile and pose with Bachmann, whether she's President or dog-catcher, disgusts me.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:06 pm
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yellowdog



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srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: yellowdog wrote: srossi wrote: Somehow I doubt the people who object to this felt the same way over the handful of athletes who refused to meet with Bush over the years.  They were right then, and Thomas is right now.  This is a non-story.  He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go and he doesn't even have to respect anyone he doesn't want to respect.  I seem to recall this country being founded on a shocking lack of respect for certain members of royalty.
I would have had the same reaction regardless of political affiliation.  I think I said that in my first post about this.  The first time this pissed me off was when some members of the Ryder Cup team were whining about meeting with Clinton.  It has become a tradition in this country that championship teams get invited to the White House.  It's about respect... respect for the office, respect for the country and respect for the President.  So Rossi, you're suggesting we're on the verge of a revolution like in 1776?  Tim Thomas not going to the White House is like our founders signing the Declaration of Independence and going to war with England? See how silly that looks when you read it?  You have the "right" to do a lot of things.  That doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I see how silly it is when smart people suddenly act dumb to try to prove their point.  This isn't about being on the verge of a revolution, this is about the presidency not being a God-bestowed monarchy and the office not being treated as such in this country, a principle deeply rooted in the very foundation of this country and driven home by George Washington in all of his early speeches after becoming our first president.  This "respect the office" cry is a joke when no one respects the office when it's held by the "other team".  I'd love to see how respectful you'll be to the office if any of this GOP crop actually were elected after all of the "batshit crazy" comments on this board about them.  To betray your opinions and shake the hand of some of these morons just because they have a title is not what this country is about.  I for one wouldn't have been able to look myself in the mirror if I ever shook Bush's hand for a photo op after everything he did, he was nothing short of a monster and a despicable human.  My opinions aren't as strong about Obama but the principle remains the same for his detractors.  So you're either not as principled as you'd like to be or you're lying.  I actually think it's the latter.  This is where the super-partisans run into trouble on this board, the lack of consistency can never be reconciled.  


you're wrong about my respecting the other team.  The only person I called batshit crazy was Michelle Bachmann and I stand by that statement.  I believe professional athletes represent teams, cities, regions and as champions, our country.  Jesus, this isn't a war.  Maybe that's why Dems and GOPs can't get anything done, because they are the mortal enemy and can't even shake the hand of their "enemy."  This "standing up for my rights and principles" is a load. 

Not sure how you got to "not as principled as you'd like to be or lying" Even though I don't consider myself super-partisan, I think I've been extremely consistent in my views and positions here. 

So if Michelle Bachmann had been elected President and you were in a position to shake her hand and take a picture with her, would you do it? 


yes, for all the reasons I stated. 

We need to sticky this thread for posterity for the next time a Republican is in the White House.  I already know the things said about Bush and the way Republicans used the old "respect the office argmument" then, and now it's been reversed.  Another 5 years and it'll go the other way again.  Will make for fun reading. 

Just for the record, anyone who would smile and pose with Bachmann, whether she's President or dog-catcher, disgusts me.

but you said President and that's pure fiction.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:20 pm
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srossi wrote: Just for the record, anyone who would smile and pose with Bachmann, whether she's President or dog-catcher, disgusts me.
What if that person was giving her the donkey punch?

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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:31 pm
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tofu_chipmunk wrote: srossi wrote: Just for the record, anyone who would smile and pose with Bachmann, whether she's President or dog-catcher, disgusts me.
What if that person was giving her the donkey punch?

That's fine, but her husband would probably enjoy it more.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:33 pm
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srossi wrote: tofu_chipmunk wrote: srossi wrote: Just for the record, anyone who would smile and pose with Bachmann, whether she's President or dog-catcher, disgusts me.
What if that person was giving her the donkey punch?

That's fine, but her husband would probably enjoy it more.

I'm not sure if you mean her husband would enjoy her getting the donkey punch or taking one himself.  I would believe either.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:40 pm
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tofu_chipmunk wrote: srossi wrote: tofu_chipmunk wrote: srossi wrote: Just for the record, anyone who would smile and pose with Bachmann, whether she's President or dog-catcher, disgusts me.
What if that person was giving her the donkey punch?

That's fine, but her husband would probably enjoy it more.

I'm not sure if you mean her husband would enjoy her getting the donkey punch or taking one himself.  I would believe either.

I meant the latter.  These are the Bachmanns we're talking about, not the Gingriches.  No open marriages here, just some closeted gay sex on the side like God intended.

Last edited on Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:42 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:42 pm
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srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote:
Somehow I doubt the people who object to this felt the same way over the handful of athletes who refused to meet with Bush over the years.  They were right then, and Thomas is right now.  This is a non-story.  He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go and he doesn't even have to respect anyone he doesn't want to respect.  I seem to recall this country being founded on a shocking lack of respect for certain members of royalty.
I don't think I remember any athletes blatantly no-showing over the years, much less any no-showing Bush or because of political reasons. Do you really remember any specifically? The only one I can remember not turning up was Manny, but that was because he was a dope and probably overslept. But it certainly wasn't driven by politics.


James Harrison of the Steelers after they won the 2006 Super Bowl.  Joey Porter on that same team reluctantly went, wearing dark sunglasses, and said he intended to tell Bush off, but wound up not doing it.  And sek of all people would know this full well.  That's why he's my first example. 

I also remember when Bush threw out the first pitch before the 2001 World Series, a group of 5 or 6 Yankees kept their distance in the locker room and wouldn't greet him for political reasons, but given the whole 9/11 thing didn't want to make a big deal about it.  It was just done, they wouldn't take part in the glad-handing and went about their business.  No big deal. 

Edit: Also Pedro Martinez claimed he had a "scheduling problem", a ridiculous and vague excuse when invited to the White House, but he no-showed a Bush meeting as well.




Nice Googling job.  I Googled these too, since I sincerely forgot about these examples.  Time to poke some holes in your examples.

Let's start with Pedro.  Come on.  Seriously? Pedro?  Do you really think him no-showing has anything to do with politics?  That's just asinine.  Same with Manny.  Those two doofuses didn't go because they didn't want to.  And I really don't have a problem with that; I have a lot more respect if somebody were to say, "You know what, I'm too lazy/stupid/apathetic/disengaged to go to the White House" rather than turning it political.

I also have more respect for the excuse of Delote West--who's likely certifiably bipolar--rather than Thomas'.  At least West was just listening to the voices in his head, not the voices of the Tea Party.

And then there's your Harrison example.  Twice he didn't go to the WH.  Neither time was it political.  He just didn't "feel the need to go" (an actual quote that conveniently was left out of your example above).

As far as Joey Porter goes, he's the only one that might--MIGHT--fit the criteria.  But at the end of the day, "Porter later said the bravado was taken out of context and that he was excited to meet Bush and visit the White House".  So comparing him to Thomas isn't really fair. 
 
Look, I don't give a shit if Thomas went or not.  I really don't.  But all's he accomplishes by making such a big stink about this is perpetuate disrespect and hostility at a time when disrespect and hostility is at an all time high.  I don't know why he couldn't have just had a "family emergency" and been done with it.  Instead he has to attention whore his way through something which, in retrospect, should have been a positive event.

Last edited on Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:43 pm by dogfacedgremlin34



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:43 pm
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Basically what I take from this thread now, is that the age old adage of respect is earned, not rewarded does not apply to the title of President of the United States.  I must remember to re-educate my kids on that respect aspect.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:47 pm
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mike3775 wrote: Basically what I take from this thread now, is that the age old adage of respect is earned, not rewarded does not apply to the title of President of the United States.  I must remember to re-educate my kids on that respect aspect.

The point of this thread is that Marcus Bachmann wants the donkey punch.  Please work on your reading comprehension.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:51 pm
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tofu_chipmunk wrote: mike3775 wrote: Basically what I take from this thread now, is that the age old adage of respect is earned, not rewarded does not apply to the title of President of the United States.  I must remember to re-educate my kids on that respect aspect.

The point of this thread is that Marcus Bachmann wants the donkey punch.  Please work on your reading comprehension.
I think she already gets enough of em though

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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:51 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote:
Somehow I doubt the people who object to this felt the same way over the handful of athletes who refused to meet with Bush over the years.  They were right then, and Thomas is right now.  This is a non-story.  He doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go and he doesn't even have to respect anyone he doesn't want to respect.  I seem to recall this country being founded on a shocking lack of respect for certain members of royalty.
I don't think I remember any athletes blatantly no-showing over the years, much less any no-showing Bush or because of political reasons. Do you really remember any specifically? The only one I can remember not turning up was Manny, but that was because he was a dope and probably overslept. But it certainly wasn't driven by politics.


James Harrison of the Steelers after they won the 2006 Super Bowl.  Joey Porter on that same team reluctantly went, wearing dark sunglasses, and said he intended to tell Bush off, but wound up not doing it.  And sek of all people would know this full well.  That's why he's my first example. 

I also remember when Bush threw out the first pitch before the 2001 World Series, a group of 5 or 6 Yankees kept their distance in the locker room and wouldn't greet him for political reasons, but given the whole 9/11 thing didn't want to make a big deal about it.  It was just done, they wouldn't take part in the glad-handing and went about their business.  No big deal. 

Edit: Also Pedro Martinez claimed he had a "scheduling problem", a ridiculous and vague excuse when invited to the White House, but he no-showed a Bush meeting as well.




Nice Googling job.  I Googled these too, since I sincerely forgot about these examples.  Time to poke some holes in your examples.

You asked for examples in what I took as a sincere question because you legitimately didn't know/didn't remember.  I provided some.  You can have your opinions over how political or not the examples were, but they no-showed.  Hundreds of other celebrities publicly trounced Bush too, the man was absolutely reviled especially in celebrity (typically liberal) circles, so I don't get how this is anything new just because it happened to Obama.  The "respect for the office" bit is a Rush Limbaugh talking point from 2002 that he conveniently forgot about in 2008 and it's very disappointing to hear liberals use it now that "their guy" is the one taking some flak.  That's my main point.  



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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:53 pm
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mike3775 wrote: Basically what I take from this thread now, is that the age old adage of respect is earned, not rewarded does not apply to the title of President of the United States.  I must remember to re-educate my kids on that respect aspect.

Oh, bullshit.  Not everything has to be political. Not everybody has to "OMG IMA GONNA MAKE ME A STATEMENT BY GOD!" all the time.  Just fucking suck it up and do it.  By making this political, Thomas is making this something it's not; kind of like how you are as well.   

Here's another example, and I'm going to use the IFC comedy "Todd Margaret" as an example.  In one episode, Todd Margaret, an American transplaned in the UK, is filmed on British televison during a Remembrance Day ceremony pouring a can of an energy drink on the ground.  Unfortunately, because of the camera angle, it looks like he's pissing on a Remembrance Day monument.  Immediately, he becomes the most reviled man in Britian.

Now, let's change that up a bit.  Let's say Todd Margaret really hated wars and, in turn, hates veterans.  Let's say, in an attempt to express his contempt, he really did piss on the Remembrance Day monument.  By your example, that's a perfectly acceptable way to express your displeasure, right?  Because, after all, the veterans didn't "earn" his respect; after all, they're really just hired killers.  So why not piss on this monument?  Because the whole concept of Remembrance Day is bigger than one man or one soldier.  Just as the whole concept of being honored at the White House is bigger than one President or one athlete.  That, and because it's a douche move.

Hate to break it to you, but like it or not, society and peer pressure dictate a lot of what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable.  Thomas isn't making a statement; he's just being a douche.

Last edited on Tue Jan 24th, 2012 02:57 pm by dogfacedgremlin34



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