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Fit just hit the shan for the Saints  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 01:23 pm
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mike3775



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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: PeteF3 wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2007-11-26-nfl-ruling_N.htm

Why did the NFL not throw the book at the Packers?  Where was the discussion of fines, loss of draft picks, and player suspensions for them?  I have zero issue with them trying to stop this, but I have never cared for double standards or inequity when it comes to discipline.  The Packers got not one bit of censure from the NFL.  Under Goodhell's watch.  If they lay the hammer down the Saints need to fight it as there is precedent set by the league and this Commissioner to take no punitive action. 

"ESPN reported that Packers players offered to pay the team's defensive linemen $500 each if they were able to hold Minnesota running back Adrian Peterson to under 100 yards rushing two weeks ago. They offered another $500 for holding Carolina to under 60 yards rushing as a team the next week."

Yeah, that's totally the same fucking thing as what the Saints are doing.
Yeah funny how Petersen got hurt in that same fucking game.  On a blatant low shot at his knees by Al Harris.  No, just a fucking coincidence isn't it?  Seems to be totally the same fucking thing there. 

I never cared for Williams and this does not surprise me, but yeah.  I guess I am just pissed my team got popped for cheating so I am looking for parallels where none exist. 
There was no Bounty for knocking him out though, there was for Favre and Warner. 

Like I said earlier, this goes on in every locker room, I don't care how many trams will deny it until they are blue in the face, it happens, just the Saints got caught. 

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 01:24 pm
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mike3775



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Quattro wrote: Sorry this isn't worse than spygate which was cheating. This was incentivizing hard hits and play. There is a difference.Its much worse because the NFL Cares about player safety, and having a system set up where someone who causes a player to be carted off earns $1K and gets knocked out the game earns $1500 is not going to fly in the NFL.

Peter King brought up a great point as well, it will be interesting to see how much the GM, coach and Coordinator that ran it gets punished, because you know Harrison is going to be paying attention and if these people do not get at least a 6 figure fine and suspension, he has a valid gripe about being singled out as a player while the ringleaders get away with a slap

Last edited on Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 01:27 pm by mike3775

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 01:28 pm
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katook



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I'm just wondering how long it will take before Goodell decides to blame Harrison, even though he isn't even with the Saints.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 02:18 pm
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HBF



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katook wrote:
I'm just wondering how long it will take before Goodell decides to blame Harrison, even though he isn't even with the Saints.

:D

The Eagles did this back in the 80's when that scumbag Ryan offered bounties.

Wanting to knock the QB from the game is normal. Going about it publicly is not. The Giants, for example, are built to knock out the QB. That's why you draft freak defensive linemen and it's certainly their goal. The difference is that they don't have an idiot like Gregg Williams for a coordinator who would put himself (and the organization) in this position. Plus, you have to admit, Williams looks like a stereotypical pedophile.

This is more public relations issues than deep underlying league issues, caused by a very shady-looking, ignorant and vastly overrated coordinator.

Last edited on Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 02:18 pm by HBF



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 03:07 pm
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Quattro wrote: Sorry this isn't worse than spygate which was cheating. This was incentivizing hard hits and play. There is a difference.
This.  Hard hits are always encouraged.  The articles don't mention a single penalty being incurred by anyone "paid" a bounty, and that is probably because it didn't happen. As long as hard play is within the rules, I am slow to see the anguish behind all this.   For once Brett Favre is the voice of reason.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 04:06 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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mike3775 wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: PeteF3 wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2007-11-26-nfl-ruling_N.htm

Why did the NFL not throw the book at the Packers?  Where was the discussion of fines, loss of draft picks, and player suspensions for them?  I have zero issue with them trying to stop this, but I have never cared for double standards or inequity when it comes to discipline.  The Packers got not one bit of censure from the NFL.  Under Goodhell's watch.  If they lay the hammer down the Saints need to fight it as there is precedent set by the league and this Commissioner to take no punitive action. 

"ESPN reported that Packers players offered to pay the team's defensive linemen $500 each if they were able to hold Minnesota running back Adrian Peterson to under 100 yards rushing two weeks ago. They offered another $500 for holding Carolina to under 60 yards rushing as a team the next week."

Yeah, that's totally the same fucking thing as what the Saints are doing.
Yeah funny how Petersen got hurt in that same fucking game.  On a blatant low shot at his knees by Al Harris.  No, just a fucking coincidence isn't it?  Seems to be totally the same fucking thing there. 

I never cared for Williams and this does not surprise me, but yeah.  I guess I am just pissed my team got popped for cheating so I am looking for parallels where none exist. 
There was no Bounty for knocking him out though, there was for Favre and Warner. 

Like I said earlier, this goes on in every locker room, I don't care how many trams will deny it until they are blue in the face, it happens, just the Saints got caught. 
Are you really naive enough to believe there was no bounty to get him out of the game?  The Pack did a much better job lying, covering their ass, and making it look like they were sorry.  That is the only difference, well that and the Pack at least gave the impression of stopping it.  That is where the Saints fucked up.  Loomis is probably gone, and rightfully so.  My opinion is this, so long as hit were in the confines of the rules, bounty money or not, it is football.  Every defender wants to hit the other team's star players hard enough for them to leave the game.  So long as the hits are not absolutely dirty then this whole fucking scenario is much ado about nothing.  Sports fans are the most sensationalistic tards having to find the next travesty to be outraged by.  The way people are carrying on you would swear the Saints raped a kid on the 50 yard line.  The talk of firing the entire front office, the entire Coaching staff, taking every draft pick this year and next, and fining them millions of dollars  is beyond ludicrous.  I am not saying there should be no censure or punishment but fucking come on.  I find it funny that at WC one of the biggest tards who is most butthurt is the biggest Falcons fan there.  No wonder he is crying like a little bitch and carrying in such a fashion.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 04:14 pm
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mike3775



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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: mike3775 wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: PeteF3 wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2007-11-26-nfl-ruling_N.htm

Why did the NFL not throw the book at the Packers?  Where was the discussion of fines, loss of draft picks, and player suspensions for them?  I have zero issue with them trying to stop this, but I have never cared for double standards or inequity when it comes to discipline.  The Packers got not one bit of censure from the NFL.  Under Goodhell's watch.  If they lay the hammer down the Saints need to fight it as there is precedent set by the league and this Commissioner to take no punitive action. 

"ESPN reported that Packers players offered to pay the team's defensive linemen $500 each if they were able to hold Minnesota running back Adrian Peterson to under 100 yards rushing two weeks ago. They offered another $500 for holding Carolina to under 60 yards rushing as a team the next week."

Yeah, that's totally the same fucking thing as what the Saints are doing.
Yeah funny how Petersen got hurt in that same fucking game.  On a blatant low shot at his knees by Al Harris.  No, just a fucking coincidence isn't it?  Seems to be totally the same fucking thing there. 

I never cared for Williams and this does not surprise me, but yeah.  I guess I am just pissed my team got popped for cheating so I am looking for parallels where none exist. 
There was no Bounty for knocking him out though, there was for Favre and Warner. 

Like I said earlier, this goes on in every locker room, I don't care how many trams will deny it until they are blue in the face, it happens, just the Saints got caught. 
Are you really naive enough to believe there was no bounty to get him out of the game?  The Pack did a much better job lying, covering their ass, and making it look like they were sorry.  That is the only difference, well that and the Pack at least gave the impression of stopping it.  That is where the Saints fucked up.  Loomis is probably gone, and rightfully so.  My opinion is this, so long as hit were in the confines of the rules, bounty money or not, it is football.  Every defender wants to hit the other team's star players hard enough for them to leave the game.  So long as the hits are not absolutely dirty then this whole fucking scenario is much ado about nothing.  Sports fans are the most sensationalistic tards having to find the next travesty to be outraged by.  The way people are carrying on you would swear the Saints raped a kid on the 50 yard line.  The talk of firing the entire front office, the entire Coaching staff, taking every draft pick this year and next, and fining them millions of dollars  is beyond ludicrous.  I am not saying there should be no censure or punishment but fucking come on.  I find it funny that at WC one of the biggest tards who is most butthurt is the biggest Falcons fan there.  No wonder he is crying like a little bitch and carrying in such a fashion.
Did the GM, Coach, and Defensive Coordinator LIE to the NFL about it?  No.  Did the Packers have a player admit that he got paid for taking him out?  No.  Unlike the Saints, who admitted it.

Every article I have read about this, mentions the money paid out for taking out Warner and Favre.  That is why the Packers got away with it, there was not enough proof. 

The NFL started looking into it in 2009, had evidence, then a player recanted, and it was considered closed, until 2011 when someone else(probably a former player) brought it back up to the NFL and they restarted the investigation.  You notice the Defensive Coordinator has pretty much admitted it went on as well, he even already apologized for allowing it to go on, kinda hard to feel sorry for the Saints when the ringleader of it admits it happens don't you think?

Like I said before, this shit is going on and will always go on, just now it will be even more guarded then it used to be.  I bet there will be no talking of it or even any innuendo's about hits on all NFL teams now, and on the days off, they will talk about it in the houses of the players and pay up then, but on NFL property, there will be no talk or innuendo about it ever again.

EDIT:  Show me an article about the Green Bay Packers paying someone for taking out AP.  That is the biggest difference I seen, using Google, all I have seen about the Packers is that they used it for holding players to low numbers, not taking them out of the game.  Sure they probably did pay out on taking him out, but there is ZERO evidence it happened, unlike the Saints, where they have proof that players got paid for taking out Favre and Warner. 

Maybe one day a former Packers player will come forward and admit it, but its doubtful that will happen because of what the NFL is going to do the Saints

Last edited on Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 04:18 pm by mike3775

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 04:44 pm
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Quattro

 

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Matt Bowen who played for the Redskins under Gregg Williams is on ESPN2 right now. Saying it is prevelent and they were rewarded for clean hard hits.

Is this unethical? Yes

Against the NFL rules? Yes, especially for compensation because these are funds outside of the established payscale/salary rules.

Does it encourage unsafe hits? Probably but many do not need encouragement (see Harrison).

But it ain't CHEATING. Nothing has yet to be said that they were paid for an illegal hit (though they may have been). I really do not remember too many bad hits on the part of the Saints D over that period. Nothing like the hits Harrison and others put on people. I do not remember any excess penalties. Heck part of the incentive was for interceptions. And it was the players and some coaches putting a pool together not the Saints organization. Payton should have stopped it though.

Heck I do not remember the Saints being a "feared" D during this period.

This was against the established rules so it is unethical and wrong.

But it is not BLATANT CHEATING ala New England where the head coach is an active participant and using it to get an unfair advantage. If you do not think that is worse, then I am going to just stare blankly at you.

There is a huge distinction.

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 04:51 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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I wanted to post this because this play is one people cite as an example of the Saints trying to end careers.  This play is touted as an example of the blatant intent to cripple. 



I am of the opinion that it is dumb that pro needs a(to them)measly sum to get anymore hype to play.  The issue here is two fold to me.  The Saints violated League rules on bounty hunting.  No dispute there.  Lying or feigning ignorance to the league and not stopping the program is another.  I have no problem with them punishing the Saints.  I just feel if the Pats got fined $500,000, lost a 1st round pick, and their Coach got a $250,000 fine with no suspension how can people honestly say they Saints should get 10 times the punishment?  What the Pats did brought the very integrity of their title wins into question and was clearly cheating.  Had there been no bounty fund what the Saints did would have been playing football. 



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 04:54 pm
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Many are saying they will get hit harder because Goodell stopped the spygate investigation to soon because he wanted the season to play out without that cloud over the league.  I never understood why it stopped almost as soon as it began either.

This one, has the unfortunate timing of happening in the offseason where there is plenty of time for the NFL to ponder punishment and to get further facts before rendering the punishment.

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 04:58 pm
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Quattro

 

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That Warner hit was legal. 20 years ago no one would have thought a thing about it. He was chasing the guy with the ball. He wasn't hit low, he wasn't hit helmet to helmet.

Not the Saints fault he was trying to play at 50 and was frail. That is his problem.

Bradshaw took hits worse than that weekly.

Hell he hit with with his shoulder on the shoulder. What else do they want they to do?

Last edited on Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 05:01 pm by Quattro

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 05:02 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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Quattro wrote: That Warner hit was legal. 20 years ago no one would have thought a thing about it. He was chasing the guy with the ball. He wasn't hit low, he wasn't hit helmet to helmet.

Not the Saints fault he was trying to play at 50 and was frail. That is his problem.

Bradshaw took hits worse than that weekly.

Hell he hit with with his shoulder on the shoulder. What else do they want they to do?
But Bobby got paid a bounty so he tried to murder Warner!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 07:26 pm
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HBF



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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote:
Quattro wrote: That Warner hit was legal. 20 years ago no one would have thought a thing about it. He was chasing the guy with the ball. He wasn't hit low, he wasn't hit helmet to helmet.

Not the Saints fault he was trying to play at 50 and was frail. That is his problem.

Bradshaw took hits worse than that weekly.

Hell he hit with with his shoulder on the shoulder. What else do they want they to do?
But Bobby got paid a bounty so he tried to murder Warner!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:


It's obvious that he didn't from that angle and Warner even said so-it was a block on an interception. If Warner and Favre are not complaining it's a non-issue for them.
What is the issue is the resident retard admitting paying a bounty.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 07:47 pm
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mike3775



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HBF wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote:
Quattro wrote: That Warner hit was legal. 20 years ago no one would have thought a thing about it. He was chasing the guy with the ball. He wasn't hit low, he wasn't hit helmet to helmet.

Not the Saints fault he was trying to play at 50 and was frail. That is his problem.

Bradshaw took hits worse than that weekly.

Hell he hit with with his shoulder on the shoulder. What else do they want they to do?
But Bobby got paid a bounty so he tried to murder Warner!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:


What is the issue is the resident retard admitting paying a bounty.
Thats it right there.   Someone went to the NFL(probably a former player) and told them this was still on going

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 08:35 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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mike3775 wrote: HBF wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote:
Quattro wrote: That Warner hit was legal. 20 years ago no one would have thought a thing about it. He was chasing the guy with the ball. He wasn't hit low, he wasn't hit helmet to helmet.

Not the Saints fault he was trying to play at 50 and was frail. That is his problem.

Bradshaw took hits worse than that weekly.

Hell he hit with with his shoulder on the shoulder. What else do they want they to do?
But Bobby got paid a bounty so he tried to murder Warner!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:


What is the issue is the resident retard admitting paying a bounty.
Thats it right there.   Someone went to the NFL(probably a former player) and told them this was still on going
I have no issue with that.  What I have issue is that many that are carrying on in such an over the top manner have cited the Warner hit with the bounty as proof the Saints tried to end his career,  Now it isn't so much here that is happening but other places.  Like I said, punish them.  They broke League rules. I am fine with that.   Saying Payton shoould be fired, that the Saints should forfeit draft picks for two years and be fined millions is what gets my goat. 



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