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Fit just hit the shan for the Saints  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 07:57 pm
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stingmark



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mike3775 wrote:
Many are saying they will get hit harder because Goodell stopped the spygate investigation to soon because he wanted the season to play out without that cloud over the league.  I never understood why it stopped almost as soon as it began either.

This one, has the unfortunate timing of happening in the offseason where there is plenty of time for the NFL to ponder punishment and to get further facts before rendering the punishment.


You really believe that first part Mike? I dont. He "stopped it early" bc he didnt want one of the marquee teams to look bad imo. He gave them a slap on the wrist, he took away a few draft picks, and fined the team $500K, which Kraft was happy to pay. The first rd pick he took from them was pointless, had he reallY wanted to punish them, he shouldve taken away BOTH 1st rders & fined them like $5mill, THATS a punishment.

Have a feeling the Saints will get the same kind of punishment, hardly anything. Williams did this in Washington too, so Im sure the league knew atleast something about it & chose to ignore it.

Also, love the weak apology Williams has been using. He knew it was wrong, yet continued doing it. Only AFTER he gets caught, does he "suddenly" apologise? Too funny. Imo, Williams should be fired, 1st rd picks taken away & both Williams & the team should get a fat fine. Lets not kid ourselves though, the Saints are one of the leagues "darling" teams, not much will happen to them imo.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 08:28 pm
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Quattro

 

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stingmark wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
Many are saying they will get hit harder because Goodell stopped the spygate investigation to soon because he wanted the season to play out without that cloud over the league.  I never understood why it stopped almost as soon as it began either.

This one, has the unfortunate timing of happening in the offseason where there is plenty of time for the NFL to ponder punishment and to get further facts before rendering the punishment.


You really believe that first part Mike? I dont. He "stopped it early" bc he didnt want one of the marquee teams to look bad imo. He gave them a slap on the wrist, he took away a few draft picks, and fined the team $500K, which Kraft was happy to pay. The first rd pick he took from them was pointless, had he reallY wanted to punish them, he shouldve taken away BOTH 1st rders & fined them like $5mill, THATS a punishment.

Have a feeling the Saints will get the same kind of punishment, hardly anything. Williams did this in Washington too, so Im sure the league knew atleast something about it & chose to ignore it.

Also, love the weak apology Williams has been using. He knew it was wrong, yet continued doing it. Only AFTER he gets caught, does he "suddenly" apologise? Too funny. Imo, Williams should be fired, 1st rd picks taken away & both Williams & the team should get a fat fine. Lets not kid ourselves though, the Saints are one of the leagues "darling" teams, not much will happen to them imo.



Hard to fire someone who is now at another team.

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 08:45 pm
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mike3775



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stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
Many are saying they will get hit harder because Goodell stopped the spygate investigation to soon because he wanted the season to play out without that cloud over the league.  I never understood why it stopped almost as soon as it began either.

This one, has the unfortunate timing of happening in the offseason where there is plenty of time for the NFL to ponder punishment and to get further facts before rendering the punishment.


You really believe that first part Mike? I dont. He "stopped it early" bc he didnt want one of the marquee teams to look bad imo. He gave them a slap on the wrist, he took away a few draft picks, and fined the team $500K, which Kraft was happy to pay. The first rd pick he took from them was pointless, had he reallY wanted to punish them, he shouldve taken away BOTH 1st rders & fined them like $5mill, THATS a punishment.

Have a feeling the Saints will get the same kind of punishment, hardly anything. Williams did this in Washington too, so Im sure the league knew atleast something about it & chose to ignore it.

Also, love the weak apology Williams has been using. He knew it was wrong, yet continued doing it. Only AFTER he gets caught, does he "suddenly" apologise? Too funny. Imo, Williams should be fired, 1st rd picks taken away & both Williams & the team should get a fat fine. Lets not kid ourselves though, the Saints are one of the leagues "darling" teams, not much will happen to them imo.
I really think if it had been the Bears who got caught, Tampa Bay who got caught, The Jets, or the lowly St. Louis Rams who got caught, Goodell would have reacted and acted the same exact way and finished the investigation as early and fast as possible to avoid having it be in the news all season long.  Look how fast the NFL reacts to stuff during the season, and look how they react when its the off season.  If this broke after week 2 of the season, the punishment would already have been known and carried out(pending appeals). 

Williams said exactly what the NFL wanted him to say, which will more than likely lesson the punishment on him(as many experts say Payton and the GM should do as well), but they have to do it before the NFL hands out punishment

Do I think the punishment they may get warrants it?  No, I do agree with others who say this should not be a big deal like spygate was, but I can see the NFL making an example out of the Saints as well, to make it clear the NFL never wants to hear about something like this again

IMO, Payton should be suspended at least 1-2 games and fined a good chunk of money, and the GM should also be fined a huge chunk of money.  Should they lose draft picks?  Yes, but only a first rounder and maybe a couple second rounders for the next couple years, thats it.  Should Payton and Loomis be fired?   No they shouldn't.  But that part is up to Benson, and the only one of the two I could see being fired is Loomis, and thats because he lied to Benson about putting a stop to it.

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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2012 08:50 pm
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stingmark



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Quattro wrote:
stingmark wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
Many are saying they will get hit harder because Goodell stopped the spygate investigation to soon because he wanted the season to play out without that cloud over the league.  I never understood why it stopped almost as soon as it began either.

This one, has the unfortunate timing of happening in the offseason where there is plenty of time for the NFL to ponder punishment and to get further facts before rendering the punishment.


You really believe that first part Mike? I dont. He "stopped it early" bc he didnt want one of the marquee teams to look bad imo. He gave them a slap on the wrist, he took away a few draft picks, and fined the team $500K, which Kraft was happy to pay. The first rd pick he took from them was pointless, had he reallY wanted to punish them, he shouldve taken away BOTH 1st rders & fined them like $5mill, THATS a punishment.

Have a feeling the Saints will get the same kind of punishment, hardly anything. Williams did this in Washington too, so Im sure the league knew atleast something about it & chose to ignore it.

Also, love the weak apology Williams has been using. He knew it was wrong, yet continued doing it. Only AFTER he gets caught, does he "suddenly" apologise? Too funny. Imo, Williams should be fired, 1st rd picks taken away & both Williams & the team should get a fat fine. Lets not kid ourselves though, the Saints are one of the leagues "darling" teams, not much will happen to them imo.


Hard to fire someone who is now at another team.


How so? If hes still coaching, the league could demand whatever team he coaches for launch him. Or, the league itself could remove him & say he couldnt coach in the NFL for say 5 yrs. Dont be so naive, the league could do alot of things, but will they? Doubtful.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 04:03 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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stingmark wrote: Quattro wrote:
stingmark wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
Many are saying they will get hit harder because Goodell stopped the spygate investigation to soon because he wanted the season to play out without that cloud over the league.  I never understood why it stopped almost as soon as it began either.

This one, has the unfortunate timing of happening in the offseason where there is plenty of time for the NFL to ponder punishment and to get further facts before rendering the punishment.


You really believe that first part Mike? I dont. He "stopped it early" bc he didnt want one of the marquee teams to look bad imo. He gave them a slap on the wrist, he took away a few draft picks, and fined the team $500K, which Kraft was happy to pay. The first rd pick he took from them was pointless, had he reallY wanted to punish them, he shouldve taken away BOTH 1st rders & fined them like $5mill, THATS a punishment.

Have a feeling the Saints will get the same kind of punishment, hardly anything. Williams did this in Washington too, so Im sure the league knew atleast something about it & chose to ignore it.

Also, love the weak apology Williams has been using. He knew it was wrong, yet continued doing it. Only AFTER he gets caught, does he "suddenly" apologise? Too funny. Imo, Williams should be fired, 1st rd picks taken away & both Williams & the team should get a fat fine. Lets not kid ourselves though, the Saints are one of the leagues "darling" teams, not much will happen to them imo.


Hard to fire someone who is now at another team.


How so? If hes still coaching, the league could demand whatever team he coaches for launch him. Or, the league itself could remove him & say he couldnt coach in the NFL for say 5 yrs. Dont be so naive, the league could do alot of things, but will they? Doubtful.
I can see them fining the hell out of him and suspending him.  Williams is going to be a scapegoat even though this has been a longtime practice in the League.  All the moral indignation is ridiculous.  This is nothing new.  The very nature of tackle football has the defenders wanting to put a lick of such force that they try to get the other team's best players out of the game.  I love how it is okay for all time greats like Ronnie Lott, Lawrence Taylor, and Bruce Smith to talk about the fact they went into games with bad intentions to hurt their opponent.  If there had been no bounty fund this would have simply been football. 

Oh, and do any of you truly think offensive players don't try to hurt defenders?  That there are no cheapshots or intentions to hurt?  Look at the bullshit with Suh last year.  Go watch that game and look at all the face mask grabbing and elbows thrown by the Packers O Line.  That was okay though wasn't it?  Them shooting at his knees to try and hurt him is okay right? Where was the moral indignation for that?  Like it or not the NFL is a dirty hard hitting game fueled by testosterone.  It is in a physical game where people get hurt.  To think players are noble enough to not wish harm to opponents is naive and ignorant.  I also want to clarify, even if this were not about one of my teams I would think the whole  hyperbolic aggrandizing would be nauseating.  Sometimes sports fans are the biggest over reactors and easily offended segment of society.  They go off on these tangents that make any political pundit or religious zealot look centered in comparison. 



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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 04:25 pm
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Apples and oranges but more or less on the same level as "spygate". (Q stop staring at me)

I am sure other teams do it (just like other teams videotaped) - in the end the Saints will lose a first round pick over this in my opinion. You really can't do anything to Williams.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 04:29 pm
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mike3775



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beejmi wrote:  You really can't do anything to Williams.
At one point the same was said for players under NCAA sanctions, and look what happened with Tressel and Pryor.

These days, nothing the NFL does surprises me anymore.  I can see the NFL fining Williams, and maybe even suspending him a game, especially since its being reported he had these things in place elsewhere he worked.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 04:33 pm
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I think the difference with Williams is that he is working somewhere else and if you punish him (other than a fine) you are punishing the Rams instead of the Saints. I would fine him though quite heavily.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 04:41 pm
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beejmi wrote: I think the difference with Williams is that he is working somewhere else and if you punish him (other than a fine) you are punishing the Rams instead of the Saints. I would fine him though quite heavily.
Oh I agree, but I could see Goodell using him as an example of "just because you are no longer on the team, you are subject to being punished via suspension" as well.

Not saying it will be done, but if the NFL announces a suspension, I will not be shocked at all.


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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 06:06 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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mike3775 wrote: beejmi wrote: I think the difference with Williams is that he is working somewhere else and if you punish him (other than a fine) you are punishing the Rams instead of the Saints. I would fine him though quite heavily.
Oh I agree, but I could see Goodell using him as an example of "just because you are no longer on the team, you are subject to being punished via suspension" as well.

Not saying it will be done, but if the NFL announces a suspension, I will not be shocked at all.


Yeah what they are saying is that they expect Goodell to make an example of Williams and the Saints to get his point across about player safety.  The Saints and Williams just had the misfortune of being the ones caught with their hands in the cookie jar despite the fact this practice is way more common than the people getting butthurt want to realize. 



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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 06:14 pm
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Well yeah they got caught -- BUT the league (and players union) has been beating the drum of "player safety" so -- as accepted as it may have been in the past and no matter how many others "do it".  because it is happening at a time when the league is making it's best effort ever in terms of protecting the players, they're going to be made an example of.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 06:24 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta



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beejmi wrote: Well yeah they got caught -- BUT the league (and players union) has been beating the drum of "player safety" so -- as accepted as it may have been in the past and no matter how many others "do it".  because it is happening at a time when the league is making it's best effort ever in terms of protecting the players, they're going to be made an example of.
Yeah and I have no problem with that Beej.  I do have a problem with all the fools carrying on like the Saints were like Billy Cole from the Last Boyscout and bringing a gun on the field and shooting people.  They broke league rules, punish them.  I just wish some folks would stop acting like Gregg Williams held down an underage girl as the Saints defense ran a train on her on National TV.  That is how over the top this faux outrage has been.  People dislike the practice, that is fine.  The League wants to stamp it out an will make examples of Williams and the Saints and I am cool with that too.  I just wish folks would stop acting like the Saints and Williams' led defenses are the only ones in the League to employ it. 



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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 06:42 pm
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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: beejmi wrote: Well yeah they got caught -- BUT the league (and players union) has been beating the drum of "player safety" so -- as accepted as it may have been in the past and no matter how many others "do it".  because it is happening at a time when the league is making it's best effort ever in terms of protecting the players, they're going to be made an example of.
I just wish folks would stop acting like the Saints and Williams' led defenses are the only ones in the League to employ it. 
Well the Patriots 5 yrs later, are still the only team to video tape opponents, even though I bet every team did it, and still does it.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 07:31 pm
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beejmi wrote:
You really can't do anything to Williams.


Sure you can, Goodells already said "Severe penalties" are coming. He can banish Williams for "life", then Williams can ask for reinstatement later. Just read an article that Williams had a bounty system when he was HC in Buffalo, that makes it a trifecta. Williams will be used as an example, no way for Goodell to look serious/respectable otherwise.

Imo, Loomis will be saying bye bye, the Saints will get a fine & probably forfeit their 1st rd pick(should be more), Williams will be banned for awhile.

No matter how it plays out, the Saints/Williams come out looking bad.

PS, whoever said that stuff about SUH is right on. Yes, he shouldnt have reacted the way he did BUT, we only heard the poor widdle linemens excuse as to why he did it. It came out LATER that the o linemen were cheap shotting him. Trying to end his career and/or injure him, is just as bad, if not worse than what SUH did.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2012 07:32 pm
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mike3775 wrote:
Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: beejmi wrote: Well yeah they got caught -- BUT the league (and players union) has been beating the drum of "player safety" so -- as accepted as it may have been in the past and no matter how many others "do it".  because it is happening at a time when the league is making it's best effort ever in terms of protecting the players, they're going to be made an example of.
I just wish folks would stop acting like the Saints and Williams' led defenses are the only ones in the League to employ it. 
Well the Patriots 5 yrs later, are still the only team to video tape opponents, even though I bet every team did it, and still does it.


And havent won shit since.



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