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Does Cabrera take the triple crown with a few games left?  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 09:32 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:



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 Posted: Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 09:46 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Because Mike Trout is better than Alan Trammell. When Did Trammell hit 30 hr's? Never. When did he score 129 runs ? Never. Steal 48 bases? Never. Have a .564 Slugging? Never. Thus Mike Trout deserves to be MVP.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 10:47 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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Principal_Raditch wrote:
freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Because Mike Trout is better than Alan Trammell. When Did Trammell hit 30 hr's? Never. When did he score 129 runs ? Never. Steal 48 bases? Never. Have a .564 Slugging? Never. Thus Mike Trout deserves to be MVP.


But I thought that Alan Trammell is a HOF'er. Trout can't never ever be better then Him. Trout is the best non-pitching prospect in 25 years and that's a shoot, Brother.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 08:36 am
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Famous Mortimer



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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote:  You do realize he only had 6 RBIs in September right?   83 RBIs so far this Season warrants the AL MVP award? I like the kid, I really do and all I am doing is looking at his numbers.  A case can be made for him being in the hunt but IMO he should not win it. 
RBIs are the least impressive stat of the big ones, because they rely on you having people on base when you come to bat. Leadoff hitters also would have less RBIs, just because they're leadoff guys.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:41 pm
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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Who proclaimed him to be the "best player in the majors", Off one season?

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:54 pm by stingmark



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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:45 pm
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Principal_Raditch wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Because Mike Trout is better than Alan Trammell. When Did Trammell hit 30 hr's? Never. When did he score 129 runs ? Never. Steal 48 bases? Never. Have a .564 Slugging? Never. Thus Mike Trout deserves to be MVP.


(rollseyes), Trout can only hope he has a career for 20+ yrs in the bigs.....you guys are definitely drinking the koolaid. Let's see him do it consistantly for several years.

 

As for MVP, is Trout leading in RBI's/HR's, and so forth? then, NO, he doesn't deserve MVP. Plus, Trout's team didn't make the playoffs, thats hurts his mvp stock IMO. Had they made the playoffs, I'd probably say he had a very good chance to win it.

 

Leyland thinks Cabrera should be not only the first TC winner in 45 yrs, but also a lock for MVP.

 



Counting the four hits he had Monday, Cabrera had hits in six consecutive at-bats and is hitting .331. (Robin Buckson/Detroit News)





Kansas City, Mo. -- While the Tigers wait around to find out who they'll face in the playoffs, they're getting a nice historic diversion. They get to watch a teammate rip apart baseball's record book.

Miguel Cabrera isn't quite unstoppable, but he's about as close as anyone ever gets. He had two more hits and two more RBIs Tuesday night, and the Triple Crown is in his grasp. Not that he needed further confirmation of his greatness, but surely this would do it. Heck, it might even end that relentlessly tiring MVP debate.

Cabrera left after the fifth inning of a 4-2 loss to the Royals, and if he wants to rest today to secure the Triple Crown, there should be no argument. None. Manager Jim Leyland said he'd make the decision whether to play Cabrera, but he also has a bit of a luxury — all of the hitting contenders play before the Tigers game tonight.

If Cabrera has it wrapped up, he's absolutely entitled to watch the finale from the dugout.

"He's got 600-some at-bats, what else you want the kid to do?" Leyland said. "Enough's enough. I think he's proven himself no matter what I do. I'm gonna be in a no-win position in the eyes of some, but if he wants to play, he'll play."

This hasn't been seen in baseball in 45 years, which might explain why it's hard for some to fathom what we're witnessing. But truthfully, you could see it coming for a while, as Cabrera locked in during the tension of the division race. One day after the Tigers clinched, all the game's meaning was packed into three at-bats.

Cabrera blooped a single in the first inning, then lined a two-run single in the third, his sixth consecutive hit over two games. After he lofted a foul fly to right, he left with an AL-leading .331 batting average. His RBI total of 139 is way ahead. His 44 home runs were one ahead of Josh Hamilton.

Cabrera deferred to Leyland, but obviously, the decision will be his. He said he wants to play, but let's see what happens with Hamilton and Mike Trout beforehand.

"I played 160 games, so I think one more won't affect me," Cabrera said. "Whatever decision (Leyland) makes, I'm good with it."

I bet Cabrera can't wait to get this finished, as the clamor grows ever louder, sometimes too loud for him. If he could chase the Triple Crown in a sensory-free bubble, he would. But for teammates who still watch in amazement, this has become the best seat at baseball's history table.

Unsung achievement
Cabrera downplays the possible ramifications of the Triple Crown, but I wonder if people really grasp what he's doing. He's going for his second straight AL batting title, which would be enough for any star player. Incredibly, it's only a slice of what Cabrera could accomplish.

He never wanted to turn this into an individual quest, but with the Tigers in the playoffs, it's fair to focus on the numbers. Cabrera answers the questions politely, but to belabor it draws more attention and heaps more pressure, and besides, what more is there to say?

His teammates have plenty to say, including the reigning AL MVP and Cy Young winner.

"I think he's been relatively under the radar for what he's doing," Tigers ace Justin Verlander said before the game. "I haven't seen that much attention on him, not like it should be. It kind of annoys me, but it probably doesn't annoy him. The entire baseball world should be here right now."

About 20 feet away, Cabrera sat at his locker, laughing with rookie Avisail Garcia, a fellow Venezuelan who looks and swings like Cabrera. Garcia is Miggy Me, and on this day, he's a great diversion for the big fella.

Teammates behind him
The debate rages whether Trout's all-around game is more impressive than Cabrera's all-world hitting. If Cabrera lands the Triple Crown, I don't see how he could be denied the MVP, but it's no lock. I swear, Tigers players want him to complete the feat even more than he does. Verlander has been wearing his "Keep the MVP in the D" T-shirts, but that issue is up to a vote. The Triple Crown is all Cabrera's to take, and he'd love to do it. He'd just rather be judged on the team's success.

In fact, he's almost embarrassed to be talking about himself.

"The numbers are right there, you can't change that," Cabrera said. "If I change my game, it'll change my whole game for the playoffs. I gotta stay focused. I'll let you focus on all that other stuff, and you tell me."

Cabrera unleashed a gigantic laugh, his preferred antidote to pressure. He's a commanding presence in a playful way, as boisterous as anyone on the Tigers.

It's obvious his teammates appreciate him and are rooting for him, and in some ways, Cabrera is almost too consistent, too humble and too deflecting. He's a 29-year-old superstar who has put up similar numbers for eight consecutive years.

"I don't know what else to say — if he's not the MVP, then there's no such thing as an MVP," Leyland said. "That's with all due respect to Mike Trout, who's been unbelievable. But when people look at the numbers, for some reason they don't really look at RBIs. To me, that's the most important statistic of all."

Cabrera also led his team to the playoffs with stunning clutch hitting. The Angels didn't reach the postseason, although they have a better record than the Tigers. But there's only one guy going for the Triple Crown, and in the Tigers' clubhouse, no further discussion is necessary.

But no one seems overly surprised the feat is so near. Cabrera already has won batting, home run and RBI titles in different seasons. He's putting it all together now, and everyone needs to recognize exactly what we're seeing.

bob.wojnowski@detnews.com

twitter.com/bobwojnowski


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121003/OPINION03/210030361#ixzz28Ft8YEXV
 

(Oh and Trammell will most likely get into the HOF, his votes have gone up every year)

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:47 pm by stingmark



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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:52 pm
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Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

They dont give a player the TC because of defense, as it's an offensive based award, so your argument about his defense, is moot as it pertains to the TC. I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past. He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:53 pm
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stingmark wrote: But when people look at the numbers, for some reason they don't really look at RBIs. To me, that's the most important statistic of all."

In what possible sense are RBIs the most important stat for MVP voting?

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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:58 pm
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stingmark wrote:
Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

They dont give a player the TC because of defense, as it's an offensive based award,


Pretty sure he's debating the MVP, not the Triple Crown. The MVP is not an "offensive based award." If it was, how the hell did Verlander win it last year?

I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past.

You believe wrong. He's never won nor deserved a GG.

He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.

Maybe they could have tried one of them at DH instead of rolling out Delmon Young, Andy Dirks, and Brennan Boesch at that position.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:00 pm
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Famous Mortimer wrote: stingmark wrote: But when people look at the numbers, for some reason they don't really look at RBIs. To me, that's the most important statistic of all."

In what possible sense are RBIs the most important stat for MVP voting?


I dont know...ask jim Leyland......(you failed to mention who said that-Jim Leyland).

 

I find it kind of weird that it's ok for Yaz to have almost the exact identical stats when he won his TC in '67, yet Cabrera's stats(and their importance for some of the categories) are now being questioned? Get mad @ the people who make the categories eligible/important for the TC in the first place. I notice how folks don't seem to have issues with it before, now "all of a sudden" such and such a category doesn't mean as much, or the same? very strange way of thinking about it.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:04 pm
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It's not that strange. When Yaz won the Triple Crown there was legitimate debate over whether interracial marriage should be allowed and people didn't really know what cigarettes did to you, or at least to what extent. This is called knowledge advancement and is only "strange" in a decidedly anti-intellectualist society.

Interracial marriage is commonplace, cigarettes are bad, and RBI and BA are not the best ways of measuring the skill and value of a hitter.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:11 pm
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PeteF3 wrote: Pretty sure he's debating the MVP, not the Triple Crown. The MVP is not an "offensive based award." If it was, how the hell did Verlander win it last year?

I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past.

You believe wrong. He's never won nor deserved a GG.

He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.

Maybe they could have tried one of them at DH instead of rolling out Delmon Young, Andy Dirks, and Brennan Boesch at that position.


I was under the impression he was talking about the TC.

 

You're right about MVP, but again, thought he was talking TC.

 

I thought he was a gold glover for the Marlins (it was a silver slugger that he has 3 of)

Maybe so, not my call, not the manager, you're not either.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:14 pm
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PeteF3 wrote: It's not that strange. When Yaz won the Triple Crown there was legitimate debate over whether interracial marriage should be allowed and people didn't really know what cigarettes did to you, or at least to what extent. This is called knowledge advancement and is only "strange" in a decidedly anti-intellectualist society.


It is that strange. You're probably right on them not judging a player, but lets not start calling Trout a HOF yet, without seeing what he can do for the next 5-10 yrs? he might never repeat those stats, he might, no one knows. he had a great year, up to the voters, we can speculate all we want. IMO, if Cabrera wins the TC, he wins MVP too.

 

Cabrera's stats are there, he should win the TC, if some stats aren't as important as others claim them to be, then do away with the TC, since stats from 1967 are more important apparently.

But, Trout's numbers are ok for him to win the TC and Cabrera's(who are better) aren't? gotcha.

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:19 pm by stingmark



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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:23 pm
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::scratches head:: Who's calling Trout a HOFer?

Miguel Cabrera is an incredible hitter. Probably will end up in Cooperstown unless he completely collapses or pulls a Pete Rose. But THIS YEAR, Triple Crown or not, Mike Trout is a better overall PLAYER. That's all anyone is saying.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:26 pm
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PeteF3 wrote: ::scratches head:: Who's calling Trout a HOFer?

Miguel Cabrera is an incredible hitter. Probably will end up in Cooperstown unless he completely collapses or pulls a Pete Rose. But THIS YEAR, Triple Crown or not, Mike Trout is a better overall PLAYER. That's all anyone is saying.


(scratches head)Well, some have called him "the best player in the majors".....who said that, why because he had a career year? and act as if they should be ordering his HOF plaque as we speak.

For this one year, maybe he is. AGAIN, lets see how he does over a long period of time.

 

Thats all I'm saying.....

 

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:28 pm by stingmark



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