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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 01:28 pm
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srossi

 

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khawk wrote: srossi wrote: I don't ever want to hear about wrestling or wrestling fans again after this. Watching the NFL pre-game shows, you'd think this monster died saving kids from a burning building. They acted like he was the victim, every single one of them. One guy said the Chiefs were finally going to win a game for him. Are you fucking kidding me? He murdered a woman and left a 3-month old an orphan. People in the NFL are more deluded than those in the wrestling bubble could ever be. I always suspected that about the NFL, but this drives it home. The Chiefs might retire this guy's number and line up to felate his corpse before the day is over.

In fairness to everyone commentating on this, the separation between the incident and the game was prtty short and people spoke without the benefit of wrapping their head around the big picture. By later in the day on Sunday, most people were recognizing the heinous actions of the player, and the tragedy of the dead girlfriend, and the orphaned kid in their commentary.

I don't compare it to the IWC Benoit thingy because of that. Benoitgate was a whole different level of internet faggetry, IMO.

I have to disagree.  Very comparable IMO.  And if this guy was as good at his job as Benoit was at his, it would've exceeded it by leaps and bounds.  All this was for a player I never even heard of before yesterday.  Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 02:05 pm
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srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 02:51 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?

I just watched the Costas clip.  A couple of things about it...

Firstly, Costas's commentarty was hardly an "anti-gun rant".  He was quoting a Jason Whitlock article inspired by the Belcher tragedy which discussed gun control laws in the US.  Now, if you wanted to call it "an anti-gun opinion piece sneakily disguised as a lengthy quote from a newspaper article" I might agree with you.  But an anti-gun rant of Costas's design it was not.

Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.

And for the record, I wasn't associating this at all with a gun control issue until I read rossi's post and watched the Costas/Whitlock piece myself.  Now, I can see that perspective as well. 



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 03:14 pm
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khawk
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Married Jo wrote: btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that.
One of the pre-game shows on Sunday made special note of it, so someone did.

I guess I look at the comparison to the IWC as off because I believe more football fans are apt to turn around once they think about it and say "fuck that guy", as opposed to the rather large IWC contingent that continued to support Benoit because he was a good werker (or something equally asinine).

I also was not thinking of Costas' commentary from last night, which obviously will/did turn head in the US. He's taking it to a whole other level of argument and outrage with that bit, no doubt.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 03:53 pm
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srossi

 

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khawk wrote: Married Jo wrote: btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that.
One of the pre-game shows on Sunday made special note of it, so someone did.

I guess I look at the comparison to the IWC as off because I believe more football fans are apt to turn around once they think about it and say "fuck that guy", as opposed to the rather large IWC contingent that continued to support Benoit because he was a good werker (or something equally asinine).

I think you're over-estimating the common sense and intelligence of a group of people who usually get piss drunk and sit out in the snow without shirts for 3 hours.

Did anyone see the "moment of silence" yesterday?  I hard some people say it was for Jovan, others said it was for "victims of domestic violence everywhere", some said it was for both.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 04:43 pm
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Saw this, I laughed, shoot me..



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 04:45 pm
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Married Jo wrote:
Saw this, I laughed, shoot me..



Fucking awesome.

So far this week, we have had people killed with a gun, killed with a bow, and killed with rope.

My god, everything unsafe needs to be taken away

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 04:47 pm
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srossi wrote: I think you're over-estimating the common sense and intelligence of a group of people who usually get piss drunk and sit out in the snow without shirts for 3 hours.

Did anyone see the "moment of silence" yesterday?  I hard some people say it was for Jovan, others said it was for "victims of domestic violence everywhere", some said it was for both.


All pre-game talk of it stated it was for victims of domestic violence everywhere.

Perhaps I am over-estimating, but when entering the IWC into a comparative discussion with fans of other sports/entertainment, I tend to do that.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 04:51 pm
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I am a firearms collector, most everything I own is from the Spanish-American War and WWI era. That aside, they all can kill people. 
This episode make me ponder Costas' adoption of Whitlock's analysis.  Is it more applicable to black culture than to mine?  Probably.  Is he right?  Likely. 

It is thought provoking.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 05:56 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 06:02 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 06:36 pm
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tamalie
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I thought the lionization of Belcher was more than a bit over the top yesterday by certain NFL studio guys, indeed glossing over the fact that he killed his wife. I am also fine with the game having gone ahead as scheduled. The whole "getting a win for him" thing was also totally out of place. 

That said, I can understand why some Chiefs players may not have wanted to play or didn't have their hearts and minds 100% in the game. Regardless of what Javon Belcher did, he was still a friend and coworker with whom many Chiefs socialized or whose wives socialized. This isn't someone dying of cancer in which those left behind get some time to come to grips with things in advance or a guy getting arrested and then a trial taking place many months later. This was a lightning bolt and one some of these people will struggle to come to terms with for some time. For instance, some Chiefs must be asking themselves whether it's okay to still consider him a friend and remember good times with him fondly given what occurred and how two different sides of one person are in conflict.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 06:38 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 06:45 pm
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BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

I agree with this.  Heat of the moment is heat of the moment.  If you're capable of this type of violence, you're going to grab the first thing you can.  If you don't have a gun, it'll be a kitchen knife or your bare hands, and this woman is not fighting off a giant pro football player intent on killing her.  Murder has been around for centuries before guns. 

None of this is even taking into account the 800 pound elephant in the room for the NFL, which is that they're players could all be ticking time bombs due to head injuries, destined to kill themselves or others or at least make highly irrational and dangerous decisions.  This could've happened at any time if he had a brain like Benoit's, and Benoit didn't have a gun.  Maybe he was just another thug, but we don't know that.  So assumptions are being made on all sides. 

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 06:51 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 06:56 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

I agree with this.  Heat of the moment is heat of the moment.  If you're capable of this type of violence, you're going to grab the first thing you can.  If you don't have a gun, it'll be a kitchen knife or your bare hands, and this woman is not fighting off a giant pro football player intent on killing her.  Murder has been around for centuries before guns.

Fine.  Just to play Devil's Advocate, let's say he would've murdered her even if he didn't have a gun.  (Which, for the record, I think is an assumption you absolutely, positively CANNOT make; not only because neither one of you know the man or know what was going through his head, but also you have to consider that killing with a gun makes said murder considerably less "personal" and much more "convenient" or "clean".  But whatever.) My question is, would Belcher have killed HIMSELF if he didn't have a gun?  Would he have gone on to Chris Benoit himself, as BT possibly theorized?  Would he perhaps drink a bucket of gasoline?  Maybe he would've taken that proverbial knife that he theoretically killed his girlfriend with and theoretically slit his own throat.

Would he have done any of those things has he not had a gun?  It's possible, I guess, but not probable.  You can't speculate on that.  None of it.



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