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 Posted: Mon Mar 18th, 2013 02:39 pm
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lobo316



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Undo the Michael Young for Estaban Loaiza trade.
If I lived in Chicago, I'd undo the Esposito, Hodge, Stanfield
for Martin, Marotte, Norris trade. 

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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 03:00 pm
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cheapseats



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Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.



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Never said that I could 100 % substantiate it. And convincing you 100 % is not a concern of mine.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 03:52 pm
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mike3775



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cheapseats wrote: Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.like the previous ownership had not already done that

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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 04:28 pm
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cheapseats



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mike3775 wrote:
cheapseats wrote: Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.like the previous ownership had not already done that

I don't think it's fair to lay all the woes of the Astros on Drayton McClane. Granted, he was tight fisted with the payroll, but the Astros enjoyd a resurgence in popularity after he bought the team in 1993.He got them out of the Atrodome and in to thei own facility. Bagwell and Bigio started to flourish and McClane was smart enough to make them his franchise players.The era of the Killer B's, Clemens, Petitte, Oswalt, Lidge, and a World Series ppearance was to follow.

Now in 2007, the wheels came off the bus and within a few years,the free fall began. That's when the order of the day seemed to be to unload any player of value. Not sure why other than McLane saw red or felt it was going in that direction. The last five years was an embarrasment to an otherwise solid ownership tenure.



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Never said that I could 100 % substantiate it. And convincing you 100 % is not a concern of mine.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 05:14 pm
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mike3775



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cheapseats wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
cheapseats wrote: Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.like the previous ownership had not already done that

I don't think it's fair to lay all the woes of the Astros on Drayton McClane. Granted, he was tight fisted with the payroll, but the Astros enjoyd a resurgence in popularity after he bought the team in 1993.He got them out of the Atrodome and in to thei own facility. Bagwell and Bigio started to flourish and McClane was smart enough to make them his franchise players.The era of the Killer B's, Clemens, Petitte, Oswalt, Lidge, and a World Series ppearance was to follow.

Now in 2007, the wheels came off the bus and within a few years,the free fall began. That's when the order of the day seemed to be to unload any player of value. Not sure why other than McLane saw red or felt it was going in that direction. The last five years was an embarrasment to an otherwise solid ownership tenure.


That's just it, those last 5 yrs, it seemed every time it seemed like they were getting some decent players, he shipped them off to continue to keep salary low. They should still be contending after that WS run in 2005, but he nuked the team, and continued to nuke it while getting revenue sharing money and crying poor, especially whenmthemteam didn't pay much for that stadium either

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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 06:22 pm
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Superstar
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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: srossi wrote:
Principal_Raditch wrote:
freebirdsforever2001 wrote: Cory17 wrote:
August 9, 1988.


Non- Hockey people have no clue about this date. You might want to tell Them.

That was the day the Oilers unloaded some dead weight.


Ok based on the team and general timeframe I'll guess. They got rid of Gretsky?


The Guys name is GRETZKY. Just like Gordie Howe is Gordy Howe.

I thought it was GRITZKY.  At least that's what Chris Rock's jersey on Everybody Hates Chris said...



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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 06:31 pm
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Superstar
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cheapseats wrote: mike3775 wrote:
cheapseats wrote: Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.like the previous ownership had not already done that

I don't think it's fair to lay all the woes of the Astros on Drayton McClane. Granted, he was tight fisted with the payroll, but the Astros enjoyd a resurgence in popularity after he bought the team in 1993.He got them out of the Atrodome and in to thei own facility. Bagwell and Bigio started to flourish and McClane was smart enough to make them his franchise players.The era of the Killer B's, Clemens, Petitte, Oswalt, Lidge, and a World Series ppearance was to follow.

Now in 2007, the wheels came off the bus and within a few years,the free fall began. That's when the order of the day seemed to be to unload any player of value. Not sure why other than McLane saw red or felt it was going in that direction. The last five years was an embarrasment to an otherwise solid ownership tenure.

ENRON killed the Astros, not Drayton McClane.  The fan base was damaged beyond repair financially, couldn't justify spending on tickets, and McClane if I'm not mistaken had a financial stake in Enron as well...when the money starts running low, the quality goes down.  I cannot blame McClane because the crowds started dwindling while the Astros were still a division contender.  2007 was the end of a five year stretch of not increasing revenues and paying higher salaries that he couldn't afford.  When the fans came, the salaries worked.  You can't raise ticket prices when your fan base can't pay them as it is. 



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"Jack Brisco grabbed my testicles once but I told him "Brisco, you have exactly 15 minutes to get your hands off my balls"." -WongLee 7/22/2017
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 06:38 pm
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cheapseats



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Superstar wrote: cheapseats wrote: mike3775 wrote:
cheapseats wrote: Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.like the previous ownership had not already done that

I don't think it's fair to lay all the woes of the Astros on Drayton McClane. Granted, he was tight fisted with the payroll, but the Astros enjoyd a resurgence in popularity after he bought the team in 1993.He got them out of the Atrodome and in to thei own facility. Bagwell and Bigio started to flourish and McClane was smart enough to make them his franchise players.The era of the Killer B's, Clemens, Petitte, Oswalt, Lidge, and a World Series ppearance was to follow.

Now in 2007, the wheels came off the bus and within a few years,the free fall began. That's when the order of the day seemed to be to unload any player of value. Not sure why other than McLane saw red or felt it was going in that direction. The last five years was an embarrasment to an otherwise solid ownership tenure.

ENRON killed the Astros, not Drayton McClane.  The fan base was damaged beyond repair financially, couldn't justify spending on tickets, and McClane if I'm not mistaken had a financial stake in Enron as well...when the money starts running low, the quality goes down.  I cannot blame McClane because the crowds started dwindling while the Astros were still a division contender.  2007 was the end of a five year stretch of not increasing revenues and paying higher salaries that he couldn't afford.  When the fans came, the salaries worked.  You can't raise ticket prices when your fan base can't pay them as it is. 

Enron had a hand in the decline of the local economy's spending power but that was in 2001. Hurricane Ike in 2008 and the national recession that was already in swing did more damage IMO.



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Never said that I could 100 % substantiate it. And convincing you 100 % is not a concern of mine.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 06:39 pm
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Superstar
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I would undo allowing Jack Tatum on the field for the play that he hit Frenchy Fuqua and almost separated his head from his body...if Frenchy catches that ball, the Raiders win that game.  I'd also tell Charles Woodson not to blindside Tom Brady, just try to bat the ball away, so the bogus (and now defunct) Tuck Rule play never happens.   I'd undo trading Jon Gruden to the Buccaneers for four draft picks, since the Raiders may as well pull names out of a hat when they draft.  I'd ban players from going to Tijuana during Super Bowl week so Barret Robbins doesn't lose his mind and fuck us royally, costing us Super Bowl 37.  The Raiders demolish the Bucs if Robbins plays that game - not one defensive player would have even breathed on Rich Gannon, and there would have been no John Lynch knowing the signals because the Raiders wouldn't have been using the prior season line calls with a center that didn't play all season.  I'd undo drafting JaMarcus Russell and pick Adrian Peterson, so that the next season we wouldn't have to draft "the next Adrian Peterson" in Darren McFadden.  And I'd have left Carson Palmer to rot in Cincinnati.  In fact, I can probably come up with ten more bullshit Raiders things over the past 25 years or so, but it's just getting me more pissed off.



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"Jack Brisco grabbed my testicles once but I told him "Brisco, you have exactly 15 minutes to get your hands off my balls"." -WongLee 7/22/2017
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 06:44 pm
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Superstar
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cheapseats wrote: Superstar wrote: cheapseats wrote: mike3775 wrote:
cheapseats wrote: Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.like the previous ownership had not already done that

I don't think it's fair to lay all the woes of the Astros on Drayton McClane. Granted, he was tight fisted with the payroll, but the Astros enjoyd a resurgence in popularity after he bought the team in 1993.He got them out of the Atrodome and in to thei own facility. Bagwell and Bigio started to flourish and McClane was smart enough to make them his franchise players.The era of the Killer B's, Clemens, Petitte, Oswalt, Lidge, and a World Series ppearance was to follow.

Now in 2007, the wheels came off the bus and within a few years,the free fall began. That's when the order of the day seemed to be to unload any player of value. Not sure why other than McLane saw red or felt it was going in that direction. The last five years was an embarrasment to an otherwise solid ownership tenure.

ENRON killed the Astros, not Drayton McClane.  The fan base was damaged beyond repair financially, couldn't justify spending on tickets, and McClane if I'm not mistaken had a financial stake in Enron as well...when the money starts running low, the quality goes down.  I cannot blame McClane because the crowds started dwindling while the Astros were still a division contender.  2007 was the end of a five year stretch of not increasing revenues and paying higher salaries that he couldn't afford.  When the fans came, the salaries worked.  You can't raise ticket prices when your fan base can't pay them as it is. 

Enron had a hand in the decline of the local economy's spending power but that was in 2001. Hurricane Ike in 2008 and the national recession that was already in swing did more damage IMO.

I'll buy Ike completely killing the place as the final bullet, but after Enron, it was a year to year gradual decline that didn't show up at the surface until they hit bottom.  You saw it...I don't have to tell you how it happened.  Very difficult for a market that is hurting financially to support a baseball team.  Look at Pittsburgh - the Steelers play ten games a year including preseason, that's a lot cheaper than 81 Pirates games.  Unless you can deal with nosebleeds at ten bucks a pop and don't have to pay for parking, being a Steelers ticket holder is significantly cheaper.  But back to the Astros...building a young team with a lot of prospects that don't get paid much will work if the ticket prices are low.  Real Astros (and baseball) fans will buy into a team built from the ground up so that they can see the end result when the young guys all mature and start winning.  And from what I understand, the Astros have some decent prospects coming up the next couple of years.



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"Jack Brisco grabbed my testicles once but I told him "Brisco, you have exactly 15 minutes to get your hands off my balls"." -WongLee 7/22/2017
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 09:46 pm
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cheapseats



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Superstar wrote: cheapseats wrote: Superstar wrote: cheapseats wrote: mike3775 wrote:
cheapseats wrote: Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.like the previous ownership had not already done that

I don't think it's fair to lay all the woes of the Astros on Drayton McClane. Granted, he was tight fisted with the payroll, but the Astros enjoyd a resurgence in popularity after he bought the team in 1993.He got them out of the Atrodome and in to thei own facility. Bagwell and Bigio started to flourish and McClane was smart enough to make them his franchise players.The era of the Killer B's, Clemens, Petitte, Oswalt, Lidge, and a World Series ppearance was to follow.

Now in 2007, the wheels came off the bus and within a few years,the free fall began. That's when the order of the day seemed to be to unload any player of value. Not sure why other than McLane saw red or felt it was going in that direction. The last five years was an embarrasment to an otherwise solid ownership tenure.

ENRON killed the Astros, not Drayton McClane.  The fan base was damaged beyond repair financially, couldn't justify spending on tickets, and McClane if I'm not mistaken had a financial stake in Enron as well...when the money starts running low, the quality goes down.  I cannot blame McClane because the crowds started dwindling while the Astros were still a division contender.  2007 was the end of a five year stretch of not increasing revenues and paying higher salaries that he couldn't afford.  When the fans came, the salaries worked.  You can't raise ticket prices when your fan base can't pay them as it is. 

Enron had a hand in the decline of the local economy's spending power but that was in 2001. Hurricane Ike in 2008 and the national recession that was already in swing did more damage IMO.

I'll buy Ike completely killing the place as the final bullet, but after Enron, it was a year to year gradual decline that didn't show up at the surface until they hit bottom.  You saw it...I don't have to tell you how it happened.  Very difficult for a market that is hurting financially to support a baseball team.  Look at Pittsburgh - the Steelers play ten games a year including preseason, that's a lot cheaper than 81 Pirates games.  Unless you can deal with nosebleeds at ten bucks a pop and don't have to pay for parking, being a Steelers ticket holder is significantly cheaper.  But back to the Astros...building a young team with a lot of prospects that don't get paid much will work if the ticket prices are low.  Real Astros (and baseball) fans will buy into a team built from the ground up so that they can see the end result when the young guys all mature and start winning.  And from what I understand, the Astros have some decent prospects coming up the next couple of years.

Even more than the finaical ability to go to the game, what has hurt the Astros the most is that Houston is a notorious fair weather fan  city outdside of maybe the Texans. Fair weather fans plus lousy on field has really hurt the attendance at Minute Maid Park. I went to see them play the pirates in July 2011 and you could have fired off a shotgun and nothit anyone. Rather sad.



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Never said that I could 100 % substantiate it. And convincing you 100 % is not a concern of mine.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2013 10:28 pm
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Cory17



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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: Cory17 wrote:
August 9, 1988.


Non- Hockey people have no clue about this date. You might want to tell Them.

I don't even like to mention names!   :(



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 Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2013 12:53 am
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BuddyPSHayes



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cheapseats wrote:
Putting the Astros in the American League...all the late start times for games will kill baseball in Houston.

The Astros were in the NL West for years (for that matter, so were two Eastern time zone teams, Atlanta and Cincy) and it didn't seem to be a factor. I'd say moving the radio broadcasts to a station with a lousy nighttime signal, and the TV broadcasts to a network no one gets, will do more to kill the Astros.



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 Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2013 01:26 am
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BayouBoogie



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Benlen wrote:
HBF wrote:
Benlen wrote:
Undo trading Joe Montana to KC. Montana still had 3 good yrs left in him .

But he wasn't as good as Steve Young at that point. Don't you agree with that? Young was the MVP if I'm not mistaken.

Young won MVP in 1994(superbowl yr).Yes Young had better numbers but Young had Jerry Rice John Taylor and Brent Jones to throw to. Montana had JJ Birden Willie Davis and Hayes.


Splitting hairs. They're as good as any two others, ever, for my money. Young was at the start of his prime. As good as Joe still was, Steve was the best in the game at that time, imo. Elway and the upcoming Favre being the next two.

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 Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2013 01:30 am
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BayouBoogie



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Undo the jazz trading what became the magic Johnson pick two years later. And also undo the move to Utah. At the very least, change the damn name so we can have it back. New Orleans jazz for an nba team is as good a sports name as there is. It fits both the city and the game like a glove. Pelicans... The jury is out.

Undo Jim haslett putting Aaron brooks back in at the end of the 01 (or was it 02?) season despite the facts that brooks was clearly playing with a wounded arm, Jake delhomme played extremely well in his stead at Baltimore and they only needed one win in 3 games to make the playoffs.

Then Jake leaves and promptly delivers one of the alltime great super bowl performances. For a division rival, no less. In fact, it marked the 5th time in 6 years that a division rival made the super bowl. Counting the niners and rams, all of their division rivals had super bowl appearances in the prior decade except the saints. In fact, the one time in that stretch that their division did not win the NFC is the year the saints won the division and knocked off the rams.

Last edited on Thu Mar 21st, 2013 01:49 am by BayouBoogie

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