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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 07:44 pm
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Franchise



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The Clippers started out in San Diego



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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 07:49 pm
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kargol



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In British football this is just not a thing. Local loyalties are hardboiled and immutable. If someone did the equivalent of the Brooklyn Dodgers thing - probably transferring Newcastle United to south London - they would be assassinated. And you'd never find a jury to convict.

As it is, such wholesale moves are against the rules of the football leagues.

The only major franchise-esque manoeuvres in England have been:

-Arsenal - moved from Woolwich (south-east London) to Highbury (north-central London) in 1906. A deliberate move to undercut Tottenham Hotspur, who were doing well in the Southern League, and the Football League needed a competitor;

-MK Dons - moved from Wimbledon (south London) to Milton Keynes (sort of east Midlands-ish), a total travesty about 15 years ago that means people still refer to MK as Franchise FC. The original Wimbledon was run into the ground by bent owners. Fans re-formed the club and got promoted the seven or so divisions to get back into the League - and as I type AFC Wimbledon are above MK Dons in the third tier;

-Gateshead - moved 10 miles from South Shields in the 1920s. Went bust in 1960 and have since re-formed. Were only ever a very minor player.

In rugby, Wasps moved from London to Coventry a couple of years back when they ran out of money and had to sell their ground. That's about 100 miles.

There are a few more in Scottish football. Meadowbank Thistle quit Edinburgh to become Livingston, Clydebank by a complex series of manoeuvres became a phoenix club to Airdrie, and Clyde are known as the Gypsy Army because they've not had a permanent ground since they were evicted from Rutherglen. But at those lower levels in Scots football we're talking about a few hundred rather than a few thousand fans. Plus the League there was more like a US league in that there was no way into it. It has changed in the last couple of years so teams can earn their way into it.



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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 07:56 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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Franchise wrote: The Clippers started out in San Diego
Started out as the Buffalo Braves. I actually saw a few games as a child at Maple Leaf Gardens as a young kid, since they'd play a few each year early on in the franchise. 

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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 08:03 pm
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Franchise



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Damn it, that's what I get for talking about a sport I've never followed.



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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 08:48 pm
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LAF



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The Buffalo Braves were originally to be moved to Miami in 1976. Owner Paul Snyder, whose daughter would later be a cokehead DJ dating Eddie Money turned religious family values mommy, had a plan to sell the team to interests there. This fell through when the city of Buffalo filed a lawsuit. Snyder sold the team instead to Kentucky Governor John Y. Brown, best known for marrying Phyllis George.

As part of the lawsuit, a provision was added to the team's lease with Memorial Auditorium that they could break the lease if season ticket aales fell below 5,000. Well this POS deliberately dismantled the team in a manner similar to the Cleveland Indians owner in Major League. League MVP and 2-time scoring leader Bob McAdoo was "traded" to the Knicks for cash and a backup player. Moses Malone was jettisoned after 2 games. Screwy moves abounded. 

The Boston Celtics owner wanted to move closer to California. But hey, you can't move the Celtics! So a NBA attorney/weasel named David Stern stepped in and orchestrated a franchise trade. Braves owner John Y. Brown got the Celtics and the Boston owner got the Braves and the ability yo move them to San Diego. They also swapped many of the team's players. It could be argued that the Braves are really now the Celtics.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 03:28 am
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Mysterious



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Benlen wrote: San Diego Rockets move to Houston
Philadelphia Warriors to San Francisco to Golden State/Oakland

And back to San Francisco in a couple of years.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 03:30 am
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Mysterious



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srossi wrote: LAF wrote: beejmi wrote: Are the 'Winnipeg Jets' that were the 'Atlanta Thrashers' the same Winnipeg Jets that are now the 'Arizona Coyotes'?

The Coyotes all-time records include the original Jets.

The current Jets all-time records include the Thrashers.

That's more complicated than the lineage of the WWE titles post-2001.

There's not much history with either franchise pre-Zona post Atlanta.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 03:49 am
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LAF



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The USFLs Breakers played in a different city each season. 1983 in Boston, 1984 in New Orleans, and 1985 in Portland. 

The Philadelphia Stars moved to Baltimore.

The Washington Federals became the Orlando Renegades.

Others merged or outright traded franchises.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 03:59 am
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LAF



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Raditch mentioned the St. Louis Hawks moving to Atlanta in the NBA. Well they started off as the Tri-City Blackhawks in Illinois. They moved to Milwaukee and then to St. Louis.

The CFL had the Sacramento Gold Miners become the San Antonio Texans and the Baltimore Stallions become the new Montreal Alouettes but not before winning a Grey Cup for the US.

The Edmonton Rush became the Saskatchewan Rush in indoor lacrosse. ;)

Last edited on Fri Mar 31st, 2017 04:01 am by LAF

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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 04:13 am
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tamalie
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LAF wrote: The Buffalo Braves were originally to be moved to Miami in 1976. Owner Paul Snyder, whose daughter would later be a cokehead DJ dating Eddie Money turned religious family values mommy, had a plan to sell the team to interests there. This fell through when the city of Buffalo filed a lawsuit. Snyder sold the team instead to Kentucky Governor John Y. Brown, best known for marrying Phyllis George.

As part of the lawsuit, a provision was added to the team's lease with Memorial Auditorium that they could break the lease if season ticket aales fell below 5,000. Well this POS deliberately dismantled the team in a manner similar to the Cleveland Indians owner in Major League. League MVP and 2-time scoring leader Bob McAdoo was "traded" to the Knicks for cash and a backup player. Moses Malone was jettisoned after 2 games. Screwy moves abounded. 

The Boston Celtics owner wanted to move closer to California. But hey, you can't move the Celtics! So a NBA attorney/weasel named David Stern stepped in and orchestrated a franchise trade. Braves owner John Y. Brown got the Celtics and the Boston owner got the Braves and the ability yo move them to San Diego. They also swapped many of the team's players. It could be argued that the Braves are really now the Celtics.

Not long after taking over the Celtics, John Y. Brown sent three first round draft picks to the Knicks for Bob McAdoo, going behind Red Auerbach's back to make the deal. Red responded by going to Brown and telling him he was accepting a longstanding offer from MSG to become President and GM of the Knicks unless Brown agreed to sell the team. Brown could keep the team, but have a diminished team that was at a low ebb while he would be labeled as the guy who ran Red away from the Celtics, or he could sell out and leave with a profit. He took the second option. After regaining control, Auerbach sent McAdoo to the Pistons for two first round picks and ML Carr. One of the picks wound up being the #1 overall choice in the 1980 draft which was ultimately sent by Auerbach to Golden State for Robert Parish and the #3 overall choice which was used to select Kevin McHale. With Larry Bird already sparking a turnaround, the Celtics' next dynasty was off and running.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 02:41 pm
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LAF



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Funny that McAdoo was given away and then Brown massively overpaid to get him back.

But such was the NBA of the late 70s and early 80s with overmatched owners making horrible decisions and getting ripped off. Ted Stepien comes to mind.

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 Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2017 01:54 am
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cdewar19

 

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beejmi wrote: Are the 'Winnipeg Jets' that were the 'Atlanta Thrashers' the same Winnipeg Jets that are now the 'Arizona Coyotes'?

No. Jets version 1 franchise records belong to the Coyotes, Jets version 2 franchise records are mostly sad numbers held by Ilya Kovalchuk and Marc Savard from the Atlanta days.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2017 03:23 pm
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tamalie
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The amount of money the Buffalo Braves received from the New York Knicks for Bob McAdoo was not insignificant at $3,000,000, which is nearly $13,000,000 in present day dollars. For a team as cash starved as the Braves, that was real money. The Seattle Supersonics offered $2,000,000 plus two players, but got shut down in the bidding war because McAdoo's then wife wouldn't move west and Bob didn't want to be that far from his family.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 05:00 am
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Mysterious



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LAF wrote: Raditch mentioned the St. Louis Hawks moving to Atlanta in the NBA. Well they started off as the Tri-City Blackhawks in Illinois. They moved to Milwaukee and then to St. Louis.

The CFL had the Sacramento Gold Miners become the San Antonio Texans and the Baltimore Stallions become the new Montreal Alouettes but not before winning a Grey Cup for the US.

The Edmonton Rush became the Saskatchewan Rush in indoor lacrosse. ;)

CFL and NLL don't count. We're talking about leagues that make money.

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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 01:18 pm
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LAF



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Mysterious wrote: LAF wrote: Raditch mentioned the St. Louis Hawks moving to Atlanta in the NBA. Well they started off as the Tri-City Blackhawks in Illinois. They moved to Milwaukee and then to St. Louis.

The CFL had the Sacramento Gold Miners become the San Antonio Texans and the Baltimore Stallions become the new Montreal Alouettes but not before winning a Grey Cup for the US.

The Edmonton Rush became the Saskatchewan Rush in indoor lacrosse. ;)

CFL and NLL don't count. We're talking about leagues that make money.

The CFL is doing very well and has a sweetheart TV deal

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