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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 02:28 pm
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lobo316



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Cooperstown has grown by four.

Chipper Jones, Vladimir Guerrero, Jim Thome, and Trevor Hoffman were elected into the National Baseball Hall of Fame on Wednesday after securing the required 75 percent of the 422 votes cast by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.


Jones received 410 of 422 votes in his first year on the ballot. The first overall selection in the 1990 MLB Draft, Chipper spent his entire 19-year career with the Atlanta Braves, logging more than 1,900 games at third base. He ranks second in franchise history in games played, hits, doubles, and RBIs behind Hank Aaron. Jones, who retired in 2012, was an eight-time All-Star, two-time Silver Slugger, 1999 NL MVP, 1995 World Series champion, and is the only switch-hitter to finish with at least a .300/.400/.500 slash line with at least 5,000 at-bats.

Thome also lands into the Hall of Fame in his first year on the ballot. The definition of power, Thome belted 612 home runs during his 22-year career and sits eighth on the all-time list. In six different seasons, Thome hit at least 40 home runs and produced nine seasons in which he reached the 100-RBI plateau. A 13th-round pick of the Cleveland Indians in the 1989 draft, Thome also played for the Philadelphia Phillies, Chicago White Sox, Minnesota Twins, Los Angeles Dodgers, and Baltimore Orioles.

After receiving 71.7 percent of the vote in his first year on the ballot, Guerrero landed 92.9 percent in year two to become just the third player from the Dominican Republic to reach the Hall of Fame. Heralded as one of the most feared hitters in the majors, Guerrero was armed with an incredible ability to get on base. He posted four different seasons with an OBP over .400 and never struck out more than 95 times in a single season. Guerrero spent the first eight years of his career with the Montreal Expos, following with stints with the Los Angeles Angels (six seasons), Texas Rangers (one season), and Orioles (one season). He retired in 2011 as a nine-time All-Star, eight-time Silver Slugger, and 2004 AL MVP.

Hoffman needed three turns on the ballot before receiving induction. Originally drafted as a shortstop before converting to a pitcher in the minors, Hoffman was the first reliever to record save No. 500 and No. 600. He was the all-time saves leader until 2011 when Mariano Rivera surpassed him. Hoffman spent 15 seasons with the San Diego Padres while also spending time with the Florida Marlins (28 games) and Milwaukee Brewers (two seasons). He ended his career in 2010 as a seven-time All-Star, two-time NL Reliever of the Year, and two-time NL saves leader.

The four will be inducted into the Hall of Fame on July 29 alongside Jack Morris and Alan Trammell, who were both elected in December by the Modern Era Committee.

Last edited on Thu Jan 25th, 2018 05:48 pm by lobo316

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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 02:42 pm
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srossi
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I guess they all have the stats for it, but I never saw Thome as a HOFer and Guerrero seemed to have a short shelf life of dominance, although I could be misremembering. I haven't looked at any numbers.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 03:02 pm
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LAF



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srossi wrote: I guess they all have the stats for it, but I never saw Thome as a HOFer and Guerrero seemed to have a short shelf life of dominance, although I could be misremembering. I haven't looked at any numbers.
I tend to agree. The one that stands out to me is Hoffman, who totally has the stats but always seemed to choke when it mattered.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 03:38 pm
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srossi
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LAF wrote: srossi wrote: I guess they all have the stats for it, but I never saw Thome as a HOFer and Guerrero seemed to have a short shelf life of dominance, although I could be misremembering. I haven't looked at any numbers.
I tend to agree. The one that stands out to me is Hoffman, who totally has the stats but always seemed to choke when it mattered.

Hoffman is tough to leave out having the 2nd most saves of all-time, but I never saw him as a shutdown closer.  I never had that feeling like when Eckersley came into a game, or how other teams must've felt when they saw Rivera, that oh shit, this one's over.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 03:42 pm
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bpickering
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Thome

HRs 612
LTAVG .276
Hits 2,328
RBI 1,699

Seems like HOF numbers to me



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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 04:16 pm
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The Ghost Of Amerorig Past



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Kind of surprised Scott Rolen (10%) stays on the ballot while Johnny Damon (2%) falls off.  I don't think either is a HoFer, but I think Damon's a lot closer than Rolen.
Also happy to see that Vizquel made a bit of noise.  Hopefully he trends upwards and gets in within the next 5 years or so.  



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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 04:24 pm
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The Ghost Of Amerorig Past



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bpickering wrote: Thome

HRs 612
LTAVG .276
Hits 2,328
RBI 1,699

Seems like HOF numbers to me

And here's Sosa's:
HRs 609 
LTAVG .273 
Hits 2,408 
RBI 1,667 


Pretty damn close, and Sosa did it in 4 less seasons.  Yet Thome gets in on his first try and Sosa still languishes in purgatory.  Why?  Because one it an admitted steroid user, and the other has never been caught.  
It always cracks me up when the innocence of the supposed "clean" guys--Thome, Griffey, Frank Thomas et al--is taken for granted.  How do we know these guys were clean? Just because Thome and Thomas were fat tubs doesn't mean they weren't on the gas.  It just means they were likely able to cover their tracks better.  I say there's a 90% chance they were juicing during a good chunk of their careers.  

Last edited on Thu Jan 25th, 2018 04:27 pm by The Ghost Of Amerorig Past



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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 05:18 pm
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srossi
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The Ghost Of Amerorig Past wrote: Also happy to see that Vizquel made a bit of noise.  Hopefully he trends upwards and gets in within the next 5 years or so.  
The writers love them some Vizquel.  Didn't he win the MVP one year with almost no offensive stats?



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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 06:27 pm
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LAF



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srossi wrote: LAF wrote: srossi wrote: I guess they all have the stats for it, but I never saw Thome as a HOFer and Guerrero seemed to have a short shelf life of dominance, although I could be misremembering. I haven't looked at any numbers.
I tend to agree. The one that stands out to me is Hoffman, who totally has the stats but always seemed to choke when it mattered.

Hoffman is tough to leave out having the 2nd most saves of all-time, but I never saw him as a shutdown closer.  I never had that feeling like when Eckersley came into a game, or how other teams must've felt when they saw Rivera, that oh shit, this one's over.

Agreed on the lack of shutdown. There was an article on ESPN a month or so ago that listed and said that Hoffman blew 5 of  the biggest games he played in. 

Last edited on Thu Jan 25th, 2018 06:28 pm by LAF

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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 08:12 pm
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Ultimark



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The Ghost Of Amerorig Past wrote: bpickering wrote: Thome

HRs 612
LTAVG .276
Hits 2,328
RBI 1,699

Seems like HOF numbers to me

And here's Sosa's:
HRs 609 
LTAVG .273 
Hits 2,408 
RBI 1,667 


Pretty damn close, and Sosa did it in 4 less seasons.  Yet Thome gets in on his first try and Sosa still languishes in purgatory.  Why?  Because one it an admitted steroid user, and the other has never been caught.  
It always cracks me up when the innocence of the supposed "clean" guys--Thome, Griffey, Frank Thomas et al--is taken for granted.  How do we know these guys were clean? Just because Thome and Thomas were fat tubs doesn't mean they weren't on the gas.  It just means they were likely able to cover their tracks better.  I say there's a 90% chance they were juicing during a good chunk of their careers.  
Sosa did it with a needle in his ass.  That is the difference. 

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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 08:15 pm
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The Ghost Of Amerorig Past wrote:  It always cracks me up when the innocence of the supposed "clean" guys--Thome, Griffey, Frank Thomas et al--is taken for granted.  How do we know these guys were clean? Just because Thome and Thomas were fat tubs doesn't mean they weren't on the gas.  It just means they were likely able to cover their tracks better.  I say there's a 90% chance they were juicing during a good chunk of their careers. 
I think that when testing was announced in what, 2002/2003? that a lot of guys that had been juicing got off the gas.  No matter what anybody says, the shit changes you and your physical capabilities even after you are off of it.  I don't believe Griffey was on it, because if he was, they would have injected all sorts of shit in his hamstrings to heal them faster so he could play.  His injuries were not the typical steroid ones.  Frank Thomas has always claimed that he was clean from his days at Auburn because he saw what the juice did to people.  With that said, he got the plantar faciitis (a steroid trait), and he probably gained close to 20lbs of muscle during his career (possible, but not normal after age 32).  Thome was a skinny little nothing when he came up with Cleveland, by the time he got to Philly he was jacked. 

Bottom line?  I wouldn't be surprised if 90-95% of the players we all watched from 1988-2003 were on something or another.  Canseco pretty much brought it into the spotlight in 1986 and it didn't take long to catch on.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 08:19 pm
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Of course, pitchers were juicing as well. At some point, I think there needs to be an amnesty for the guys who were clearly using and who would have qualified for the HOF anyway. Thinking of the obvious - Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro and so on. Not yet though. It might take another 10 to 20 years.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 08:23 pm
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lobo316



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Ultimark wrote: Of course, pitchers were juicing as well. At some point, I think there needs to be an amnesty for the guys who were clearly using and who would have qualified for the HOF anyway. Thinking of the obvious - Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro and so on. Not yet though. It might take another 10 to 20 years.

The Veterans' Committee will put them all in eventually.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 08:36 pm
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srossi
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lobo316 wrote: Ultimark wrote: Of course, pitchers were juicing as well. At some point, I think there needs to be an amnesty for the guys who were clearly using and who would have qualified for the HOF anyway. Thinking of the obvious - Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro and so on. Not yet though. It might take another 10 to 20 years.

The Veterans' Committee will put them all in eventually.

I'm so fed up of hearing about this every year.  Put them all in and call it the PED Wing if you want, put scarlet letters on their plaques, I don't give a shit.  Just put them in and let the fans and history decide how they'll be remembered.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 26th, 2018 02:20 am
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srossi wrote: The Ghost Of Amerorig Past wrote: Also happy to see that Vizquel made a bit of noise.  Hopefully he trends upwards and gets in within the next 5 years or so.  
The writers love them some Vizquel.  Didn't he win the MVP one year with almost no offensive stats?

He only received MVP votes 1 year and he wasn't top 10 in that year.



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