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Is The Patriot's Dynasty Over?  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 11:55 pm
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beejmi
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That's my question.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 2nd, 2020 04:01 am
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BitterOldMan



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Not till Belicheck retires or is out of the picture and/or Brady leaves/retires. I know, Capt. Obvious checks in.

You have one of the, if not the greatest coach/QB combo's in NFL history, better than Lombardi and Starr, Walsh and Montana and so on. The Pat's might have been able to continue their run if Garropolo was still there to take over from Brady but with him gone there's no replacement ready.

The more likely scenario is Brady retires and Belicheck decides then to exit but the decision of one to leave will cause the other to go.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 2nd, 2020 11:40 am
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retroken



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Hey Beej I think you asked this question last year?
or was it the year before? or the year before that? LOL

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 Posted: Thu Jan 2nd, 2020 04:16 pm
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tamalie
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The dynasty isn't over yet and we can't close the book on it until it's really finished because they went 12-4 this season, are in the playoffs, and could still win it all. However, they have the feeling of the Cowboys near the end of their 1966 to 1985 run. There is a legendary coach and superstars still in place, but the feeling that the rot is setting in still exists.

Let's compare the 1983 Cowboys to the 2019 Patriots. Both teams went 12-4. The Cowboys lost 3 of their last 6 including their last 2 in a row to fall from controlling the NFC East and homefield advantage for the playoffs to a wildcard team. Then they got sent home in the wildcard game by a 9-7 Rams team. The Patriots have lost 3 of their last 5 to go from a likely first round bye and possible homefield advantage for the playoffs to playing on the opening weekend.

Those Cowboys went 9-7 in 1984 and missed the playoffs, losing their last 2 games by one score in each case to superior Redskins and Dolphins teams when a single win would have secured a wildcard spot. In 1985 the Cowboys won the NFC East with a 10-6 record, starting off 5-1, but going 5-5 the rest of the way, including a 44-0 washout against the Bears at Texas Stadium in a major "changing of the guard" game, before going one and done in the playoffs.

This might be the last Patriots team of this run that is close to elite and from here we'll get a gentle settling period with Brady and Belichick hanging around for some 11-5, one and done type playoff seasons. For the Patriots to fight off death will require coming up with another elite QB and being willing to cut ties with Brady before the fall sets in too deeply. Getting that new elite QB is an entirely other matter because they found Brady by accident. He was a midrounder who stepped in when Bledsoe got hurt and they struck gold. Unless they give up big pieces to draft in the Top 5, and they may not have the chips to bargain with, they could be heading for using a journeyman or a used up vet from another team in the near future, something that will end the dynasty once and for all.

Last edited on Thu Jan 2nd, 2020 04:17 pm by tamalie

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 Posted: Fri Jan 3rd, 2020 01:42 am
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Superstar
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Yes, it’s over...

The Pats schedule over the first eight games has been mentioned a lot - “they beat up on a lot of bad teams” I’ve read and heard. Well, the Steelers weren’t too bad, but as we all know, ANYTHING can happen in Week One. And the Bills are a good up and coming team, but the key there is up and coming. You can’t expect the Bills at this stage to beat the Pats. But let’s say that they lose to both? They still absolutely destroy the Jets, Browns, Giants, Fins, Skins, and Browns (no matter what the preseason polls said, none of those teams are worth two shits and havent been in forever). So a good Pats team is at least 6-2; in this case they are 8-0. Then November came, and so did the Ravens - a team that I personally pegged at FIVE wins. It wasn’t Lamar Jackson that worried me, it was his surrounding cast. Turns out he really doesn’t need much...which is why the turning point in the Pats season is actually the turning point in the Pats dynasty. As late as three years ago, Brady was capable of beating teams almost singlehandedly, throwing game winning TD passes to guys that were never starters before or after they caught the balls. Brady had the ability to execute to fractions of inches, virtual perfection. He could do it two years ago too, and while last year he showed that he wasn’t the same gunslinger as in years past, this season he was downright OLD looking. If the Pats put a surrounding cast around him, I think he could still execute. But with the offensive holes that they have - not a single blue chip player at any skill position, what looks to be a miss with Sony Michel, no viable TE on the team (when that position basically won four Super Bowls alone with Gronk and the dead gay murderer), and an offensive line that is just “good” - you now see Brady for what he is...a 40+ year old QB who’s best years are behind him. I will say this without question: Drew Brees is worse physically than Brady, because I saw both of them this year. Brady seems to be more hesitant, but Brees is throwing ducks. The difference is that Brees has massive talent with him; a generational talent at WR, a starting RB that can do everything that the position asks, and an offensive line that gives him the extra half second to throw. Brady has none of that. And he’s way too old for the Pats to develop it. Had Antonio Brown not pulled a classic Antonio Brown, we are talking a totally different team. So unless something incredible happens and Brady gets OBJ or Cooper Kupp or any great #1 from a team that is dumping salary, they are fucked. Robby Anderson doesn’t fix this team. And nothing on the Pats roster is good enough to make a run outside the #1 CB.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 3rd, 2020 12:38 pm
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beejmi
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I don't think it's 'over' but it could be soon. Next year even. I don't see them winning a playoff game in Baltimore or Kansas City this year but it could happen. I suppose.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 3rd, 2020 03:46 pm
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srossi

 

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tamalie wrote: The dynasty isn't over yet and we can't close the book on it until it's really finished because they went 12-4 this season, are in the playoffs, and could still win it all. 
Exactly.  If the Patriots wind up making it to the Super Bowl again this year, that question will seem pretty stupid.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 3rd, 2020 04:51 pm
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Superstar
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srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: The dynasty isn't over yet and we can't close the book on it until it's really finished because they went 12-4 this season, are in the playoffs, and could still win it all. 
Exactly.  If the Patriots wind up making it to the Super Bowl again this year, that question will seem pretty stupid.
If the Patriots make it to the Super Bowl, in my mind, it makes Baltimore and KC both frauds.  I honestly think Tennessee is going to have their way with the Pats and I wouldn't be stunned if Derrick Henry ran for 200 yards.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 3rd, 2020 05:20 pm
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Erick Von Erich

 

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Believe me, I want it to be over, but I don't think they're going away anytime soon.

Seems there was talk about the Patriots fading out, after the 2005 season-- they had lost a divisional round playoff to Jake Plummer and the Broncos in January 2006. Even when they brought in Randy Moss and went 16-0 in 2007, they lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl and it seemed like they were on their last legs. They opened the next season, 2008, by losing Brady in the first game.

The second loss to the Giants after the 2011 season made it seem like they weren't anything special-- almost like they were "playoff fodder".

Their Super Bowl 49 and 51 wins are what probably what really validated the Patriots ---and especially Brady--- as a Big Deal. Before Super Bowl 49 (end of 2014 season), they ...gasp... hadn't won the Lombardi Trophy since Super Bowl 39. At that time, there was talk that "Belichick hasn't won the big one in almost 10 years and there's that spygate scandal". Yet here they are, with a 3-1 Super Bowl record since then.

I remember something the Pirates' John Wehner likes to say about the St. Louis Cardinals: "you can't leave the door open even an inch". So as long as the Patriots have a chance and are in the playoffs, we can't assume that the door is shut.

You could also make the argument that the Patriots have had two different "dynasties", separated by that 10 year gap. Brady and Belichick are probably the only common (on-field) denominators in those two eras.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 4th, 2020 12:11 am
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Benlen



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Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: The dynasty isn't over yet and we can't close the book on it until it's really finished because they went 12-4 this season, are in the playoffs, and could still win it all. 
Exactly.  If the Patriots wind up making it to the Super Bowl again this year, that question will seem pretty stupid.
If the Patriots make it to the Super Bowl, in my mind, it makes Baltimore and KC both frauds.  I honestly think Tennessee is going to have their way with the Pats and I wouldn't be stunned if Derrick Henry ran for 200 yards.
I think Baltimore is a fraud. I have been impressed in only one game by them and that was vs Houston. My main problem with them is their OC Greg Roman. He's always had a running QB with him ( Kaepernick, Tyrod Taylor, and Jackson). Always some early success then dumped by the team when he can't take them any further.
Oh...and I think Tenn is gonna blow out NE. Betting on it.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 4th, 2020 02:39 am
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srossi

 

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Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: The dynasty isn't over yet and we can't close the book on it until it's really finished because they went 12-4 this season, are in the playoffs, and could still win it all. 
Exactly.  If the Patriots wind up making it to the Super Bowl again this year, that question will seem pretty stupid.
If the Patriots make it to the Super Bowl, in my mind, it makes Baltimore and KC both frauds.  I honestly think Tennessee is going to have their way with the Pats and I wouldn't be stunned if Derrick Henry ran for 200 yards.

Would anyone be that shocked if NE upset one or two of these teams?  What’s the line on the TN game?



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 Posted: Sat Jan 4th, 2020 03:01 am
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tamalie
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At the moment it's Patriots -5.5.

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 Posted: Sat Jan 4th, 2020 04:22 am
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beejmi
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A win at Baltimore would be surprising. At KC, not so much.

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 Posted: Sun Jan 5th, 2020 03:30 am
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Superstar
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It’s over. Brady looked and played like a 42 year old QB. Howie Long once said that football is different than most other sports in that when you “lose it”, it doesn’t happen gradually - you just wake up one day and it’s gone. Brady lost it about five weeks ago.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 5th, 2020 02:44 pm
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beejmi
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 I still got them winning the division next year

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