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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:01 pm
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lobo316



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Derek Jeter barely missed unanimity. Larry Walker barely eluded agony. What matters most is that both men are now enjoying entry into baseball’s hallowed Hall.
The subjects of two very different versions of Hall of Fame voting drama, Jeter and Walker both had their names called Tuesday night on MLB Network’s presentation of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America ballot results. All but one of the 397 BBWAA members who cast a vote had Jeter’s name checked off in his first year of eligibility, and just enough of those writers checked Walker’s name in his 10th and final year to push him above the 75-percent threshold.


Jeter and Walker will officially be welcomed into the Hall on July 26 in Cooperstown, N.Y, when the two Modern Baseball Era Committee selections -- catcher Ted Simmons and the late players’ union head Marvin Miller -- will also be honored.
The Yankees’ decorated captain, Jeter just missed joining former teammate and 2019 inductee Mariano Rivera in receiving unanimous support -- he got 99.7 percent of the vote (second-highest all time and the highest for a position player) -- but nonetheless became the 57th first-ballot Hall of Famer.
“When you start off your career, you’re never thinking about the Hall of Fame,” Jeter said. “This is the highest honor that can be given to any individual who plays this game … I never looked at it [as a foregone conclusion] because this is something that’s very difficult. You’re talking about 1% of the players who have ever played this game getting into the Hall of Fame.”




Walker, meanwhile, made it in by just six votes, appearing on 76.6 percent of ballots cast. The former Expos, Rockies and Cardinals right fielder had to sweat the process every step of the way but ultimately achieved the ecstasy of entry and is just the second Canadian-born player -- joining pitcher Ferguson Jenkins -- and the first player to have ever worn a Rockies jersey to reach the Hall. He’s also just the seventh player to get in on his final BBWAA ballot.
“I barely remember the moment, I was kind of floating on air,” Walker said of his official Hall call. “A lot of things entered my head when the phone rang and as I was hearing what was being said to me. As a Canadian, that was a proud moment for me to represent my country and to be able to join Ferguson Jenkins in the Hall of Fame.”


Curt Schilling, in his eighth year on the ballot, remains within striking distance of getting in as he appeared on 70% of ballots cast. He’ll have two more tries to clear the Hall hurdle. Roger Clemens (61%)Barry Bonds (60.7%) and Omar Vizquel (52.6%) were the only other players to appear on at least half of ballots cast. But Scott Rolen (from 17.2% in 2019 to 35.3% this year), Billy Wagner (from 16.7% to 31.7%), Gary Sheffield (from 13.6% to 30.5%), Todd Helton (from 16.5% to 29.2%), Andruw Jones (from 7.5% to 19.4%) all saw a double-digit jump in their vote percentages.
The 45-year-old Jeter was a mortal lock who now officially has his place among the game’s immortals. A 14-time All-Star, 1996 AL Rookie of the Year and five-time World Series winner with 3,465 career hits (sixth all-time), he left no doubt about his place in this process, and the groundbreaking unanimity achieved by Rivera last year -- as well as the ballot bottleneck cleared by 20 BBWAA inductees in the previous six rounds of voting -- opened the way for Jeter, who is now CEO of the Marlins, to possibly be the first position player to achieve absolute agreement from the writers.


“Numbuh 2,” as the late Bob Sheppard’s echoing voice referred to him in each trip to the plate at Yankee Stadium, was revered not just for his performance in pinstripes over the course of 20 seasons but also the principles he represented -- durability, leadership, consistency and character.


But the best testament to Jeter’s talent was that he essentially replicated, if not bettered, his Hall-worthy regular season numbers on the postseason stage on which he so routinely appeared. Jeter played 158 games and logged 734 plate appearances over 16 postseasons and turned in a .308/.374/.465 slash line. The magic moments -- “The Flip,” “The Dive” and “Mr. November” homer heroics -- stand out, but steadiness was the backbone of his brilliance.
“I have been blessed to play a long career and play on some great teams,” Jeter said. “I had a lot of support, and we had a lot of success, as well.”
All of the above made Jeter a certain selection Tuesday, despite his not reaching the 100-percent point.


The 53-year-old Walker? Not so much.
“Remember those old 45s we used to listen to, and they had the song on the A-side and then the song on the B-side you really didn’t know about?” Walker joked on the MLB Network broadcast. “I’m the B-side.”
Walker had to maintain good humor and profound patience throughout his time on the ballot. As the 1997 National League MVP, a three-time batting champ and a seven-time Gold Glove Award winner, with a .313 average and .965 OPS in 17 seasons, he had a compelling Cooperstown case. But he was knocked in many corners for the effect Coors Field had on his numbers in a decade with the Rockies from 1995-2004.


The reality is that Walker’s ballpark-adjusted 141 OPS+ ties for 68th all-time among those with at least 3,000 plate appearances, and it ranks ahead of Hall of Famers like Vladimir Guerrero (140), Reggie Jackson (139), Al Kaline (134) and Tony Gwynn (132) in right field.
It took a long time for voters to come around on Walker, but he received a dramatic surge in support in recent years. Six years ago, he appeared on only 10.2 percent of ballots cast. Just three years ago, it was 21.9 percent, then 34.1 percent in 2018. But last year, he jumped to 54.6 percent, and this year he became just the second player -- joining Ralph Kiner in 1974 -- to go from less than 60 percent one year to over 75 percent the next. He is also the first BBWAA electee to have received less than 12 percent of votes in any election during his candidacy since Bob Lemon (elected 1976), and had the highest leap in voting percentage for any player in his last year of BBWAA eligibility in 65 years (22% from 2019 to 2020).
• The top 10 moments of Walker's HOF career
Even Walker had his doubts this would happen. On Tuesday afternoon, he tweeted out his thanks to those who had supported his cause but guessed he was “going to come up a little short.”
Although I believe I’m going to come up a little short today I still wanna thank all you that have been pulling for me and showing your support. I’m grateful for all of you! It’s been fun leading up to today reading everyone’s thoughts. Cheers 🍻 LW
— Larry Walker (@Cdnmooselips33) January 21, 2020
“I actually truly meant that,” he said after the announcement. “I had the numbers in my head and was prepared for a no call. And then the opposite happened, and that call comes and, all of a sudden you can’t breathe.”
Now, both Walker and Jeter can breathe easy. No matter what the final voting percentages were, they are 100% headed for the Hall.
COMPLETE VOTING TOTALS
Derek Jeter: 396 votes (99.7 percent) -- 1st year on ballot
Larry Walker: 304 (76.6) -- 10th
Curt Schilling: 278 (70.0) -- 8th
Roger Clemens: 242 (61.0) -- 8th
Barry Bonds: 241 (60.7) -- 8th
Omar Vizquel: 209 (52.6) -- 3rd
Scott Rolen: 140 (35.3) -- 3rd
Billy Wagner: 126 (31.7) -- 5th
Gary Sheffield: 121 (30.5) -- 6th
Todd Helton: 116 (29.2) -- 2nd
Manny Ramírez: 112 (28.2) -- 4th
Jeff Kent: 109 (27.5) -- 7th
Andruw Jones: 77 (19.4) -- 3rd
Sammy Sosa: 55 (13.9) -- 8th
Andy Pettitte: 45 (11.3) -- 2nd
Bobby Abreu: 22 (5.5) -- 1st


(Players receiving less than 5% will drop off future ballots)
Paul Konerko: 10 (2.5) -- 1st
Jason Giambi: 6 (1.5) -- 1st
Alfonso Soriano: 6 (1.5) -- 1st
Eric Chávez: 2 (0.5) -- 1st
Cliff Lee: 2 (0.5) -- 1st
Adam Dunn: 1 (0.3) -- 1st
Brad Penny: 1 (0.3) -- 1st
Raúl Ibañez: 1 (0.3) -- 1st
J.J. Putz: 1 (0.3) -- 1st
Josh Beckett: 0 -- 1st
Heath Bell: 0 -- 1st
Chone Figgins: 0 -- 1st
Rafael Furcal: 0 -- 1st
Carlos Peña: 0 -- 1st
Brian Roberts: 0 -- 1st
José Valverde: 0 -- 1st

Last edited on Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:03 pm by lobo316

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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:06 pm
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srossi

 

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Does anyone know who the 1 asshole is yet?



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:10 pm
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krazykid18
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srossi wrote: Does anyone know who the 1 asshole is yet?

How is he an asshole, if Greg Maddux, Ken Griffey, Willie Mays, TOm Seaverdon't have it, no fucking way a fucking pussy ass soft ass egoistical overrated Jenkee shortstop should get it.
He hated on A Rod, and made A Rod move to third when his terrible defensive self should have been on third. 
Shoot Mariano shouldn't have gotten it neither but Jenkee fanboys in the media putting pressure on media members. 

Also is Larry Walker really a hall of famer is the more important question ???

Last edited on Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:13 pm by krazykid18

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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:21 pm
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Someone didn’t vote for Mays?


At first thought Walker isn’t a hall of famer to me but he is a lifetime .313 hitter with an NL MVP to his credit so while maybe not a hall of famer he did do better than I realized.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:56 pm
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Omar Visquel at 52.6 shows the overall weakness of the candidates.
No problem with Jeter and as an Expo fan I'm happy for Walker though I guess he'll go in as a Rockie but is he really more another of those that should be in the Hall of Very Good.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 02:56 pm
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tamalie
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Larry Walker possibly had to wait due to playing in a noted hitters park in Colorado, but also possibly got in at last for posting big numbers while clean in an era notable for heavy PED use among other top stars.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 03:28 pm
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srossi wrote: Does anyone know who the 1 asshole is yet?Going to say this as unbiased as I can.  If I had a vote for the HOF, I would not have voted for Jeter - and not because I don't believe he's a HOFer.  The ballot caps out at ten selections, and I know that Jeter wouldn't need my vote to get in.  I would have voted for guys that needed the vote.
In my opinion, Mariano Rivera deserved the 100% vote, as he is BY FAR the greatest player at his position in the entire history of the game.  And it's not close.  And what makes it even more locked in is that he is a great person and ambassador to not only the game of baseball but also to the children of Panama who have somebody to look at and say "if I work hard, I can become a HOFer too".  So many other HOFers have had issues over the years, professional and personal, that I have no beef that there weren't any other 100% votes.   And I'm not one to say "Well, if Babe Ruth can't have 100% then nobody should" because that's bullshit.  If you measure Jeter up to every Yankee in history, and take into account that he played his entire career as a Yankee, he is right up there in my mind with DiMaggio - and he got a better vote than Joe D.  Honestly, I feel that the greatest Yankee of all time was Lou Gehrig, and Jeter outpointed him as well.
So before you just brand this guy an asshole, think about EVERYTHING that goes into the voting.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 05:48 pm
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Whoever that 1 voter is he should be applauded not hunted down.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 05:54 pm
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Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Does anyone know who the 1 asshole is yet?Going to say this as unbiased as I can.  If I had a vote for the HOF, I would not have voted for Jeter - and not because I don't believe he's a HOFer.  The ballot caps out at ten selections, and I know that Jeter wouldn't need my vote to get in.  I would have voted for guys that needed the vote.
In my opinion, Mariano Rivera deserved the 100% vote, as he is BY FAR the greatest player at his position in the entire history of the game.  And it's not close.  And what makes it even more locked in is that he is a great person and ambassador to not only the game of baseball but also to the children of Panama who have somebody to look at and say "if I work hard, I can become a HOFer too".  So many other HOFers have had issues over the years, professional and personal, that I have no beef that there weren't any other 100% votes.   And I'm not one to say "Well, if Babe Ruth can't have 100% then nobody should" because that's bullshit.  If you measure Jeter up to every Yankee in history, and take into account that he played his entire career as a Yankee, he is right up there in my mind with DiMaggio - and he got a better vote than Joe D.  Honestly, I feel that the greatest Yankee of all time was Lou Gehrig, and Jeter outpointed him as well.
So before you just brand this guy an asshole, think about EVERYTHING that goes into the voting.

Seriously, who are the other 10 guys that need your specific help to get in?  Look at the list of players who dropped off the ballot this year because of lack of support and tell me who you wanted to throw a vote to instead of Jeter.  You want to toss Jose Valverde a bone because no one else will?  That's not how voting should work.  If everyone thought like that, then Valverde would be a unanimous selection and Jeter would never make it.  

Only 2 guys made it and if you voted for them and 8 others that would've been just fine.  Not everyone and their mother should be in.  Other than the steroid guys, who will eventually make it when attitudes change, I think Schilling deserves it but that's really it.  Omar Vizquel, no matter how good his glove was, will never be a HOFer.  Scott Rolen, Cliff Lee, Todd Helton - you can't just put anyone who was pretty good for a few years into the HOF.

Last edited on Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 05:57 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 06:15 pm
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srossi wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Does anyone know who the 1 asshole is yet?Going to say this as unbiased as I can.  If I had a vote for the HOF, I would not have voted for Jeter - and not because I don't believe he's a HOFer.  The ballot caps out at ten selections, and I know that Jeter wouldn't need my vote to get in.  I would have voted for guys that needed the vote.
In my opinion, Mariano Rivera deserved the 100% vote, as he is BY FAR the greatest player at his position in the entire history of the game.  And it's not close.  And what makes it even more locked in is that he is a great person and ambassador to not only the game of baseball but also to the children of Panama who have somebody to look at and say "if I work hard, I can become a HOFer too".  So many other HOFers have had issues over the years, professional and personal, that I have no beef that there weren't any other 100% votes.   And I'm not one to say "Well, if Babe Ruth can't have 100% then nobody should" because that's bullshit.  If you measure Jeter up to every Yankee in history, and take into account that he played his entire career as a Yankee, he is right up there in my mind with DiMaggio - and he got a better vote than Joe D.  Honestly, I feel that the greatest Yankee of all time was Lou Gehrig, and Jeter outpointed him as well.
So before you just brand this guy an asshole, think about EVERYTHING that goes into the voting.

Seriously, who are the other 10 guys that need your specific help to get in?  Look at the list of players who dropped off the ballot this year because of lack of support and tell me who you wanted to throw a vote to instead of Jeter.  You want to toss Jose Valverde a bone because no one else will?  That's not how voting should work.  If everyone thought like that, then Valverde would be a unanimous selection and Jeter would never make it.  

Only 2 guys made it and if you voted for them and 8 others that would've been just fine.  Not everyone and their mother should be in.  Other than the steroid guys, who will eventually make it when attitudes change, I think Schilling deserves it but that's really it.  Omar Vizquel, no matter how good his glove was, will never be a HOFer.  Scott Rolen, Cliff Lee, Todd Helton - you can't just put anyone who was pretty good for a few years into the HOF.I would have voted for Walker, Bonds, Clemens, Rolen, Sheffield, Kent.  Those six are no-brainers in my mind.  I would've voted for Manny, Billy Wagner, Andy Pettitte.  That's nine.  My tenth could have been Todd Helton or Omar Vizquel, both completely deserving - but probably would've been given to Cliff Lee - simply because I didn't expect anybody to vote for Lee and he deserves to work his way up the ballot.  Much like Don Mattingly, I would vote for a guy that for a time was at the absolute top of his profession, even if it was a short time, over a compiler.  Honestly, Harold Baines being in the HOF while Mattingly isn't even on the ballot is mind numbing.

Where you and I differ is with the steroid guys, because I don't think there should be any bias against them.   I also think that to take a hard line with some but a soft stance with the others is very hypocritical. They were ALL doing something to gain an advantage, or at worse, were part of the equation.  You can tell me that Derek Jeter was 100% clean, never cheated once, used legal equipment 100% of the time, and didn't have any sex until he was married...and I would tell you that regardless of all of that, he benefitted from cheating in the form of all of those gold and diamond rings he earned with the Yankees.  Because the Yankees were as dirty as any team back then, if not dirtier.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 06:42 pm
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srossi

 

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Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Does anyone know who the 1 asshole is yet?Going to say this as unbiased as I can.  If I had a vote for the HOF, I would not have voted for Jeter - and not because I don't believe he's a HOFer.  The ballot caps out at ten selections, and I know that Jeter wouldn't need my vote to get in.  I would have voted for guys that needed the vote.
In my opinion, Mariano Rivera deserved the 100% vote, as he is BY FAR the greatest player at his position in the entire history of the game.  And it's not close.  And what makes it even more locked in is that he is a great person and ambassador to not only the game of baseball but also to the children of Panama who have somebody to look at and say "if I work hard, I can become a HOFer too".  So many other HOFers have had issues over the years, professional and personal, that I have no beef that there weren't any other 100% votes.   And I'm not one to say "Well, if Babe Ruth can't have 100% then nobody should" because that's bullshit.  If you measure Jeter up to every Yankee in history, and take into account that he played his entire career as a Yankee, he is right up there in my mind with DiMaggio - and he got a better vote than Joe D.  Honestly, I feel that the greatest Yankee of all time was Lou Gehrig, and Jeter outpointed him as well.
So before you just brand this guy an asshole, think about EVERYTHING that goes into the voting.

Seriously, who are the other 10 guys that need your specific help to get in?  Look at the list of players who dropped off the ballot this year because of lack of support and tell me who you wanted to throw a vote to instead of Jeter.  You want to toss Jose Valverde a bone because no one else will?  That's not how voting should work.  If everyone thought like that, then Valverde would be a unanimous selection and Jeter would never make it.  

Only 2 guys made it and if you voted for them and 8 others that would've been just fine.  Not everyone and their mother should be in.  Other than the steroid guys, who will eventually make it when attitudes change, I think Schilling deserves it but that's really it.  Omar Vizquel, no matter how good his glove was, will never be a HOFer.  Scott Rolen, Cliff Lee, Todd Helton - you can't just put anyone who was pretty good for a few years into the HOF.I would have voted for Walker, Bonds, Clemens, Rolen, Sheffield, Kent.  Those six are no-brainers in my mind.  I would've voted for Manny, Billy Wagner, Andy Pettitte.  That's nine.  My tenth could have been Todd Helton or Omar Vizquel, both completely deserving - but probably would've been given to Cliff Lee - simply because I didn't expect anybody to vote for Lee and he deserves to work his way up the ballot.  Much like Don Mattingly, I would vote for a guy that for a time was at the absolute top of his profession, even if it was a short time, over a compiler.  Honestly, Harold Baines being in the HOF while Mattingly isn't even on the ballot is mind numbing.

Where you and I differ is with the steroid guys, because I don't think there should be any bias against them.   I also think that to take a hard line with some but a soft stance with the others is very hypocritical. They were ALL doing something to gain an advantage, or at worse, were part of the equation.  You can tell me that Derek Jeter was 100% clean, never cheated once, used legal equipment 100% of the time, and didn't have any sex until he was married...and I would tell you that regardless of all of that, he benefitted from cheating in the form of all of those gold and diamond rings he earned with the Yankees.  Because the Yankees were as dirty as any team back then, if not dirtier.

I'm not taking a hard line stance against the steroid guys.  I just said that they don't have a chance yet but attitudes will change eventually and all the top ones will get in one day.  I have no problem with that.  I agree almost everyone was doing something.  Nothing is more hypocritical than putting in Bud Selig, who was the King of the Steroid Era, and leaving out all the players who he knew were doing shit. 

Where we really disagree is with you voting for way too many good but not great guys who only had a few good years or who just don't have the numbers.  Vizquel, Lee, and Helton just aren't HOFers and I don't think anyone watching them in their prime ever thought they were.  Mattingly, yes, for 4-5 years he was head and shoulders above as the best player in MLB and everyone said "This guy is going to the Hall" and then he got hurt.  But no one ever said that about Todd Helton, who put up a few big numbers at a time when everyone did, in Colorado of all places, and then disappeared and was just a blip on the radar.


You have to grade on a curve by era, and if you assume that everyone was on roids then still only the best of those guys belong. Bonds was a mega-star and would’ve been if everyone was on roids or if no was. The numbers just may have been a little lower, but he was the best. A guy like Helton, whether he was on roids or on Colorado’s thin air or whatever, no way. 

Last edited on Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 06:51 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 07:06 pm
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Not hitting "reply" to make this even longer...but I disagree with the idea that Helton is a 'no way'. This guy hit over .370 in a season. Rarified air or not, there's not too many of those guys in the last 40+ years. Until he badly hurt his back, he hit over .300 every single year. And even after his back injury, he hit over .300 a few times, although was completely robbed of his power. He also won a few gold gloves. You can say that you don't think he deserves it, I'm cool with anybody's opinion on this. But to say absolutely no way? That's pretty strong. I am guessing that your grade is based, like you said, on a curve by the era. But if you remember that era, Helton was an absolute monster for a pretty long stretch. But I don't think he's in the same league as Bonds. And Manny Ramirez is arguably better too. So I can see what you are saying, but don't fully agree with it.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 07:11 pm
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Superstar wrote: Not hitting "reply" to make this even longer...but I disagree with the idea that Helton is a 'no way'. This guy hit over .370 in a season. Rarified air or not, there's not too many of those guys in the last 40+ years. Until he badly hurt his back, he hit over .300 every single year. And even after his back injury, he hit over .300 a few times, although was completely robbed of his power. He also won a few gold gloves. You can say that you don't think he deserves it, I'm cool with anybody's opinion on this. But to say absolutely no way? That's pretty strong. I am guessing that your grade is based, like you said, on a curve by the era. But if you remember that era, Helton was an absolute monster for a pretty long stretch. But I don't think he's in the same league as Bonds. And Manny Ramirez is arguably better too. So I can see what you are saying, but don't fully agree with it.
You can make a case that Manny Ramirez is the best right-handed hitter of the past 30 years. I think he’s in another stratosphere. 



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 Posted: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 08:33 pm
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Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Does anyone know who the 1 asshole is yet?Going to say this as unbiased as I can.  If I had a vote for the HOF, I would not have voted for Jeter - and not because I don't believe he's a HOFer.  The ballot caps out at ten selections, and I know that Jeter wouldn't need my vote to get in.  I would have voted for guys that needed the vote.
In my opinion, Mariano Rivera deserved the 100% vote, as he is BY FAR the greatest player at his position in the entire history of the game.  And it's not close.  And what makes it even more locked in is that he is a great person and ambassador to not only the game of baseball but also to the children of Panama who have somebody to look at and say "if I work hard, I can become a HOFer too".  So many other HOFers have had issues over the years, professional and personal, that I have no beef that there weren't any other 100% votes.   And I'm not one to say "Well, if Babe Ruth can't have 100% then nobody should" because that's bullshit.  If you measure Jeter up to every Yankee in history, and take into account that he played his entire career as a Yankee, he is right up there in my mind with DiMaggio - and he got a better vote than Joe D.  Honestly, I feel that the greatest Yankee of all time was Lou Gehrig, and Jeter outpointed him as well.
So before you just brand this guy an asshole, think about EVERYTHING that goes into the voting.
^This. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if that lone vote went to Walker. 



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 Posted: Thu Jan 23rd, 2020 05:02 pm
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nyhack56

 

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As a Yankee fan, I don't care if he got 100% of the vote or not.

As a baseball fan, how do you keep Bonds out? When it comes him specifically, I don't care about steroids, he's a HOFer without them.

Even in the steroid era, this guy hit like .350 seeing about 1/4 of the pitches other players saw. He would get walked 3-4 times a game, and still get a hit in his only AB. He'd have 1 pitch to hit all game and he'd hit it. I've also never seen anyone else get intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

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