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In Ten Years.......  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2020 08:01 pm
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Married Jo



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kargol wrote: Married Jo wrote:
I'm just pointing all this out just to prove Kargol's post wrong, Nascar's popularity explosion in the early 90's absolutely DID sell a SHITLOAD of tickets to the actual races..I know, I was there in the 80's and I was there in the 90's when we were packed like sardines in the stands, it was amazing to see..
You're proving my post RIGHT.  As I said, NASCAR races were selling out in 1990.  But the media ignored it.  Those races at tracks that could not or did not add more seats were selling the same numbers of tickets when the media were all over NASCAR.
ah, I gotcha, I misread you..but that said, there wasn't many if ANY tracks on the circuit that didn't add seats..



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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2020 12:47 am
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BuddyPSHayes



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Baseball will still have the edge due to familiarity and branding. Everyone knows the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and Cubs. Every soccer team is FC something, those have to run together for a casual fan.
But both sports will trail the NFL, NBA and possibly NHL in popularity.



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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2020 02:51 am
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freebirdsforever2019



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beejmi wrote: You have to forecast a decline in baseball to get there as well as an increase in soccer's popularity.

I personally don't think in our lifetimes we'll see soccer surpass baseball in the US

All I know is that they have to beg kids to play Baseball around my way and they can't have enough Soccer teams for every age group. The Baseball fields are empty and the Soccer fields aren't.

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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2020 10:23 am
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silentkiller



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Depending on what part of the country you're in many high schools can barely or dont even have baseball teams. That dame problem doesnt exist for soccer. 



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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2020 02:10 pm
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I think soccer will be bigger because it’s finally got some traction in the US and the cost of entry is much lower than baseball.


If you have 2’ of ground you can practice soccer skills that doesn’t work for baseball.


I also think as football falls apart due to concussions and CTE you will see more kids enter soccer. Baseball has its own unique skill set that football, basketball and soccer don’t share.



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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2020 02:13 pm
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silentkiller wrote: Depending on what part of the country you're in many high schools can barely or dont even have baseball teams. That dame problem doesnt exist for soccer. 

Is that solely due to lack of interest in baseball or have select teams taken over that area? 



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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2020 03:02 pm
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kargol



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One other thing to note.

There are lots of recent(ish) immigrants who come from countries where soccer is the no. 1 sport, by a country mile. E.g. Mexico, they have baseball there, but football is a religion.

So if they move to a US city, they're going to latch on to the soccer team. They're not going to have the same tradition and history that will take them to baseball.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 19th, 2020 04:04 pm
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tamalie
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Married Jo wrote: tamalie wrote: Regarding NASCAR's attendance issues, new tracks were built too big and existing ones overbuilt on new seats when renovating as the NASCAR boom peaked around the early to mid 2000s. The supply/demand equation got distorted by the excess capacity. Tickets were no longer prized commodities. Fans that had season tickets to both events at tracks with two races, because that was the only way to get decent seats or get seats at all, found such a purchase unnecessary. More than a few fans that attended historic tracks became alienated by NASCAR constantly tinkering with the schedule starting around just before the boom started to fall off. Some historic tracks were eliminated. Some went from two races to one. Meanwhile a number of races switched from longstanding annual weekends to new ones that fans didn’t like due to everything from cooler or hotter weather, conflicts with other parts of their lives, conflicts with March Madness or the NFL, and just because it was different. Too many of these changes were made solely in pursuit of revenue with absolutely no corresponding attention paid to the paying customers’ needs and desires.


Eh..those new seats were added because people wanted to attend. It was only after the downturn in attendance did they realize "Man, this looks bad" and start pulling seats out. Just to point it out, I pulled up the Bristol 1990 race and it's attendance was 58,200. Fifteen years later the same race at Bristol sold out at 160,000. Nascar has been in a downturn since then and they dont' report attendance the last few yeaars but I'd imagine 2-3 years ago Bristol which looked empty on TV had around 58,000 at the night race.
I'm just pointing all this out just to prove Kargol's post wrong, Nascar's popularity explosion in the early 90's absolutely DID sell a SHITLOAD of tickets to the actual races..I know, I was there in the 80's and I was there in the 90's when we were packed like sardines in the stands, it was amazing to see..


The new seats were added because they had fans that wanted to attend, but NASCAR and its track owners saw what was to a great extent a fad, that would eventually end and result in declining attendance, as a permanent situation. 

A track that a capacity of 75,000 would see sellouts and fans turned away. Then it would go up to 135,000 when an increase to 100,000 made more sense. Then the NASCAR boom ended. At first the track would get 120,000 in that 135,000 capacity, but the unused capacity meant that the race was no longer a sellout that required getting season tickets or buying months in advance. You could go to the box office on race day and get a ticket there and then. That had the effect of making the fan who felt like he had to buy a season ticket or get single race tickets very early feel that he could wait. Many of those fans would skip the race if the weather forecast looked poor or if they wanted to do something else that weekend or perhaps due to higher ticket prices felt they could skip a race or two. 

Now instead of 120,000 crowds, you have 100,000. The empty seats furthered the above scenario, but a non sellout has a way sometimes of making something seem less fun and special. The atmosphere dies a bit. It isn't the place to be anymore. Meanwhile rising ticket prices, two race tracks going down to one, and radical changes to the racing calendar alienate fans. Now instead of 100,000, there are 80,000, but there are still 135,000 seats. It creates the viewpoint that NASCAR is in trouble which to some extent it is because the bad image, even if its more about perception and attendance now compares well to the 1980s which is seen as a prosperous time for the sport, hurts TV revenue, sponsorship, and other revenue streams that can't be maximized.

Last edited on Fri Jun 19th, 2020 04:06 pm by tamalie

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