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 Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2008 11:25 pm
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LAF



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John should get in just for that game in 1988 when he committed 3 errors on one play against Milwaukee: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1988/B07270NYA1988.htm

Jose Rijo got 0 votes and fell off the ballot the first time he was on it. He came out of retirement, played a couple seasons and got 0 votes again. Has that ever happened before?

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 03:24 am
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BigJ



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srossi wrote: The lack of support for Mattingly is shocking and ridiculous.  If he's not a HOFer then fine, but don't fucking make a mockery of the process by having guys like Dave Concepcion and Tommy John get more votes.



 

Precisely.  If he's not the best non-steroid guy int he steroid era, I'd like to know who is.


 

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 03:25 am
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BigJ



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LAF wrote:

Jose Rijo got 0 votes and fell off the ballot the first time he was on it. He came out of retirement, played a couple seasons and got 0 votes again. Has that ever happened before?

 

Nope.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:37 am
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Benlen



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BigJ wrote:
Tim Raines should be far, far higher on this list, and Dawson should be in.  I think all the years in Montreal are hurting their cases.



I am not sure Dawson belongs in the HOF. He basically has  Dave Parker/Vada Pinson stats and they aren't  in.

If I had one vote it would go to Rice

Last edited on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:40 am by Benlen



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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 12:16 pm
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bingo914

 

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srossi wrote: The lack of support for Mattingly is shocking and ridiculous.  If he's not a HOFer then fine, but don't fucking make a mockery of the process by having guys like Dave Concepcion and Tommy John get more votes.




I love Mattingly but I would vote for Tommy John before him. 288 career wins and a lifetime ERA of 3.34 in 26 years. Not including his Yankees years he was a really solid pitcher. I really don't think of him as a hall of famer but he is closer than Mattingly.

Plus Mattingly never had a surgery named after him.

 



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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 01:01 pm
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HBF



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That's actually a good point Bingo (even though you were joking).  John's surgery literally changed the life of pitchers, as before, the "dead arm" syndrome would end careers. 
Coupled with LAF's referenced 3 errors on a single play, he should be a shoo-in!



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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 01:41 pm
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lobo316
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Benlen wrote: BigJ wrote:
Tim Raines should be far, far higher on this list, and Dawson should be in.  I think all the years in Montreal are hurting their cases.



I am not sure Dawson belongs in the HOF. He basically has  Dave Parker/Vada Pinson stats and they aren't  in.

If I had one vote it would go to Rice


Dawson was far superior to Rice.
A  few stats to mull over.

 

Hits – Dawson 2774, Rice 2452

Doubles – Dawson 503, Rice 373

Triples – Dawson 98, Rice 79
RBI’s – Dawson  1591, Rice 1451
Runs – Dawson 1373, Rice 1249
SB’s – Dawson 314, Rice 34
Total Bases – Dawson 4787, Rice 4129
Extra Base Hits – Dawson 1039, Rice 834

Silver Slugger Awards – Dawson 4, Rice 2
MVP Awards – Dawson 1 (twice runner up), Rice 1
Gold Glove Awards – Dawson 8, Rice PUH-LEASE

Rice played in a band box & had the advantage of being a DH.
Dawson played in a park where the ball did not carry.
Had Dawson played in Fenway, who knows how many homeruns
he would have hit. 600 maybe ?
After leaving Montreal, he hit 49 the next season.
Rice’s highest season total was 46.
I’ve left the career home run totals for last.
Homeruns – Dawson 438, Rice 382.

 

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 03:29 pm
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BigJ



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Dawson was the best defensive outfielder of the 80's not named Dwayne Murphy.  Not many people remember that because of Andre's bat, but he was better with the glove than he was with the bat.

Here's one for you guys, for next year...Is Mark Grace a HOFer?  Before you jump to answer, examine the numbers, please.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 03:57 pm
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lobo316
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No, I'd vote for Mattingly before Grace.
Grace hit a lot of doubles but never hit 20 homers
& never had 100 rbi's.
First base is considered a power position
(Gehrig, McGriff, McCovey) etc.
Grace doesn't have the power numbers.
I'll go over his stats & see if there's something there to
change my mind.


 

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:10 pm
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BigJ



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2400 hits, a lifetime .303 average and the best defensive 1B in the NL for the better part of a decade.  More hits than anyone in the 1990's.  Every other decade hit leader is in the HOF. 

Last edited on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:12 pm by BigJ

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:16 pm
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HBF



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If Frank Chance (of Tinkers to Evers to Chance fame) is in the HOF, then both Grace and Mattingly belong as well. 

For the record (and Mattingly was my favorite Yankee of the 80's), I think they are both marginal HOF'ers.

Last edited on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 04:16 pm by HBF



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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 06:13 pm
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pjstef



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Bumping this since today is the day.

Congrats to Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice.

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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 07:32 pm
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clawmaster
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HBF wrote: If Frank Chance (of Tinkers to Evers to Chance fame) is in the HOF, then both Grace and Mattingly belong as well.

Don't compound one mistake with two more.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 08:04 pm
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lobo316
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So who does Dawson have to blow to get in ? Jesus H Christ.

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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 08:05 pm
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BigJ



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clawmaster wrote: HBF wrote: If Frank Chance (of Tinkers to Evers to Chance fame) is in the HOF, then both Grace and Mattingly belong as well.

Don't compound one mistake with two more.

Good point on the whole, but listen.

Mattingly was one of the most dominant players of a decade.

Grace was one of the most consistent producers of the years he played in.  If he'd gotten 600 more hits this wouldn't be a discussion.

Both merit some discussion and  certainly deserve to at least sniff Cooperstown in Grace's case and maybe get inducted in Don's.

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