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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 10:57 pm
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sek69



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There's no need to "restore" the second amendment, it hasn't gone anywhere.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 10:57 pm
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srossi

 

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BlueThunder wrote: srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: sek69 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: mike3775 wrote: gwlee7 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: Suicide of a Superpower- Pat Buchanan
I bet that's an interesting book.  I don't care for Buchanan's views most of the time and am certainly glad his run for president failed but, I respect the passion.  He was great on the McLoughlin Group that was on PBS.
Buchanan is a great pundit that I will admit, but as a serious Presidential candidate, no way should he ever run

I'd give my right arm to have him president.

Of course you would.

Boy, it would truly suck to see American companies returning back home, an end of the tidal wave of illegals, no more needless wars, massive deportations, and a restoration of the 2nd Amendment.

Well at least a couple of those things would suck.

This should be good. Which ones.

Not everyone is as xenophobic as you and Pat.  Not to mention inaccurate, as there is hardly a "tidal wave" of illegals, especially since the economic crash.  Funny thing is, before the border war was intensified by yahoos, illegals used to come here for seasonal work that Americans didn't want to do, make some money, then go home until the next year.  The more we enforce the borders, the more we make them stay here.  One of the unintended consequences that happens whenever we try to enforce unjust laws.  That's just fact, check out illegal immigration demos from the past 75 years.  We went from moderate two-way flow to massive one-way flow, although lately no one really wants to come here anymore comparatively speaking.

Last edited on Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:01 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:04 pm
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srossi

 

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sek69 wrote: There's no need to "restore" the second amendment, it hasn't gone anywhere.

Funny thing about 2nd amendment zealots is that they never seem to care all that much about the other 9 in the Bill of Rights.  Not that it's not important, but I'd say the 2nd is by far the least trampled of the bunch in the past decade.  And yet that was the only one Thunder mentioned, predictably enough.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:17 pm
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BlueThunder



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srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: sek69 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: mike3775 wrote: gwlee7 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: Suicide of a Superpower- Pat Buchanan
I bet that's an interesting book.  I don't care for Buchanan's views most of the time and am certainly glad his run for president failed but, I respect the passion.  He was great on the McLoughlin Group that was on PBS.
Buchanan is a great pundit that I will admit, but as a serious Presidential candidate, no way should he ever run

I'd give my right arm to have him president.

Of course you would.

Boy, it would truly suck to see American companies returning back home, an end of the tidal wave of illegals, no more needless wars, massive deportations, and a restoration of the 2nd Amendment.

Well at least a couple of those things would suck.

This should be good. Which ones.

Not everyone is as xenophobic as you and Pat.  Not to mention inaccurate, as there is hardly a "tidal wave" of illegals, especially since the economic crash.  Funny thing is, before the border war was intensified by yahoos, illegals used to come here for seasonal work that Americans didn't want to do, make some money, then go home until the next year.  The more we enforce the borders, the more we make them stay here.  One of the unintended consequences that happens whenever we try to enforce unjust laws.  That's just fact, check out illegal immigration demos from the past 75 years.  We went from moderate two-way flow to massive one-way flow, although lately no one really wants to come here anymore comparatively speaking.


Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. I'll grant you that illegal crossing has dipped because of the recession. Gee, what's going to happen once we get back on track? Please explained to me how we have an estimated 20 million illegals since the 1986 Reagan amnesty? If your theory was correct, we would have a fraction of that if the worked and went home.

 

I see you buy into the "doing jobs Americans won't do" malarky. Just curious, who did these jobs before we had this epidemic of illegals? I'll save you the time. Legal immigrants, teenagers, and low IQ Americans typiclly did these menial jobs.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:19 pm
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BlueThunder



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sek69 wrote: There's no need to "restore" the second amendment, it hasn't gone anywhere.

It was only a year ago that Chicagoans finally got the right to own a gun in the privacy of their own home. Even with that, there are too many senseless restrictions. The fact that we can't carry, is a violation of our rights.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:25 pm
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srossi

 

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BlueThunder wrote: I see you buy into the "doing jobs Americans won't do" malarky. Just curious, who did these jobs before we had this epidemic of illegals? I'll save you the time. Legal immigrants, teenagers, and low IQ Americans typiclly did these menial jobs.

Blacks and Irish mostly, and they were legal immigrants by choice or force and there were a shitload of them.  Other legal immigrants had already moved up.  Obviously now we don't have that large influx of legal immigrants willing to do anything and we never will again.  And children of course.  Not teenagers, more like 10-year olds.  You're not going back far enough when it comes to child labor because it kinda makes Americans look bad, but a lack of child labor laws certainly helped a lot.  The lowest classes with the least rights will always do those jobs in any era.  Today those are illegal immigrants.  Between the social safety nets and a sense of entitlement, you're not turning back the clock and making anyone else do a lot of those jobs again, not even teens and sure as hell not most legals, many of whom are better educated than most on this board.  And that is hardly one of the top 100 problems we face today.

Last edited on Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:30 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:35 pm
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BlueThunder



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srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: I see you buy into the "doing jobs Americans won't do" malarky. Just curious, who did these jobs before we had this epidemic of illegals? I'll save you the time. Legal immigrants, teenagers, and low IQ Americans typiclly did these menial jobs.

Blacks and Irish mostly, and they were legal immigrants by choice or force and there were a shitload of them.  Other legal immigrants had already moved up.  Obviously now we don't have that large influx of legal immigrants willing to do anything and we never will again.  And children of course.  Not teenagers, more like 10-year olds.  You're not going back far enough when it comes to child labor because it kinda makes Americans look bad, but a lack of child labor laws certainly helped a lot.  The lowest classes with the least rights will always do those jobs in any era.  Today those are illegal immigrants.  And it's hardly one of the top 100 problems we face. 


Dude, you're way off. In my old neighborhood, it wasn't unusual to see white teenagers mow lawns, rake leafs, shovel snow, and wash dishes. Of course, there was always the low IQ adults with no worthy skills that worked with them. I'm not ashamed to say that I washed dishes at my cousins restaurant, pumped gas, and bagged groceries.

 

How's this for killing two birds with one stone. We should seriously slash welfare benefits. These freeloaders will now have to actually work in order to survive. They will finally do what they should have been doing for the last forty years by cleaning toilets, washing dishes, and menial farm work.  In doing this, the former welfare recipients will finally gain some sort of dignity. Who knows, they may become decent parents.

Last edited on Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:37 pm by BlueThunder

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:36 pm
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srossi

 

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BlueThunder wrote: Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. I'll grant you that illegal crossing has dipped because of the recession. Gee, what's going to happen once we get back on track? Please explained to me how we have an estimated 20 million illegals since the 1986 Reagan amnesty? If your theory was correct, we would have a fraction of that if the worked and went home.

Because my world begins before Reagan was president.  I'm going back further than that.  In the '50s and '60s in particular, they came and went every year. 



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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:39 pm
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BlueThunder



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srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. I'll grant you that illegal crossing has dipped because of the recession. Gee, what's going to happen once we get back on track? Please explained to me how we have an estimated 20 million illegals since the 1986 Reagan amnesty? If your theory was correct, we would have a fraction of that if the worked and went home.

Because my world begins before Reagan was president.  I'm going back further than that.  In the '50s and '60s in particular, they came and went every year. 


Then you would know that 1.3 million illegalls received a one way ticket back home courtesy of Eisenhower under Operation Wetback.

 

Believe it or not, I'd be in favor ofa  true guest worker program. This would have to be monitored very closely.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:40 pm
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srossi

 

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BlueThunder wrote: srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: I see you buy into the "doing jobs Americans won't do" malarky. Just curious, who did these jobs before we had this epidemic of illegals? I'll save you the time. Legal immigrants, teenagers, and low IQ Americans typiclly did these menial jobs.

Blacks and Irish mostly, and they were legal immigrants by choice or force and there were a shitload of them.  Other legal immigrants had already moved up.  Obviously now we don't have that large influx of legal immigrants willing to do anything and we never will again.  And children of course.  Not teenagers, more like 10-year olds.  You're not going back far enough when it comes to child labor because it kinda makes Americans look bad, but a lack of child labor laws certainly helped a lot.  The lowest classes with the least rights will always do those jobs in any era.  Today those are illegal immigrants.  And it's hardly one of the top 100 problems we face. 


Dude, you're way off. In my old neighborhood, it wasn't unusual to see white teenagers mow lawns, rake leafs, shovel snow, and wash dishes. Of course, there was always the low IQ adults with no worthy skills that worked with them. I'm not ashamed to say that I washed dishes at my cousins restaurant, pumped gas, and bagged groceries.

Wow, you're older than I figured.  Your old neighborhood is from the late 1800s - early 1900's?  I'm not sure why you're talking about 1970s or '80 suburban middle-class America when I'm telling you about the history of the immigration issue in this country.  You're making huge broad generalizations and then when I dispute them you suddenly focus on a very specific time or neighborhood.  You can't have it both ways. 

Anyway, back to books...

Last edited on Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:41 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2011 11:55 pm
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The Ultimate Sin
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BlueThunder wrote:
sek69 wrote: There's no need to "restore" the second amendment, it hasn't gone anywhere.

It was only a year ago that Chicagoans finally got the right to own a gun in the privacy of their own home.


Explain to me how Chicago has been immune to the Constitution for the last 200+ years.



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 Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2011 08:03 am
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Famous Mortimer



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Anyway...

 

I just finished reading the first 2 1/3 books of the "Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" trilogy - got bored of the discussions of the Swedish secret service in the third book. Now, I've got some other Scandinavian crime fiction I might have a go at, or I might try and get on with the rest of the JFK book (300 pages down, 1200+ to go).

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 Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2011 09:27 am
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dogfacedgremlin34
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The Ultimate Sin wrote: BlueThunder wrote:
sek69 wrote: There's no need to "restore" the second amendment, it hasn't gone anywhere.

It was only a year ago that Chicagoans finally got the right to own a gun in the privacy of their own home.


Explain to me how Chicago has been immune to the Constitution for the last 200+ years.

Yeah, this one had me stumped as well.



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 Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2011 09:55 am
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mike3775



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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: The Ultimate Sin wrote: BlueThunder wrote:
sek69 wrote: There's no need to "restore" the second amendment, it hasn't gone anywhere.

It was only a year ago that Chicagoans finally got the right to own a gun in the privacy of their own home.


Explain to me how Chicago has been immune to the Constitution for the last 200+ years.

Yeah, this one had me stumped as well.
Chicago used to have a law making it illegal to own a gun within city limits.  Washington DC also had the same ban.  The USSC ruled that Chicago's ban was illegal, so by default DC's was as well, and they had to change the law to allow it, but they put such restrictive measures in place to still make it hard to have a gun.

EDIT:  http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-28/justice/us.scotus.handgun.ban_1_justices-two-years-gun-control-justices-john-paul-stevens?_s=PM:CRIME

Last edited on Tue Dec 20th, 2011 09:57 am by mike3775

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 Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2011 10:12 pm
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BlueThunder



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mike3775 wrote:
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: The Ultimate Sin wrote: BlueThunder wrote:
sek69 wrote: There's no need to "restore" the second amendment, it hasn't gone anywhere.

It was only a year ago that Chicagoans finally got the right to own a gun in the privacy of their own home.


Explain to me how Chicago has been immune to the Constitution for the last 200+ years.

Yeah, this one had me stumped as well.
Chicago used to have a law making it illegal to own a gun within city limits.  Washington DC also had the same ban.  The USSC ruled that Chicago's ban was illegal, so by default DC's was as well, and they had to change the law to allow it, but they put such restrictive measures in place to still make it hard to have a gun.

EDIT:  http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-28/justice/us.scotus.handgun.ban_1_justices-two-years-gun-control-justices-john-paul-stevens?_s=PM:CRIME


Thanks Mike. I thought I already expolained it. I really didn't want to further jack this thread. I'm confident that the U.S Supreme Court will rule that our rights don't go far enough.

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