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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 03:35 pm
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Papa Voo



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Okay, we have heard so much rhetoric bouncing back and forth on Obama and other possible candidates.  I would like for somebody to explain what possible "realistic" legislation or governmental order could be put in place to help turn this economy around and produce good-paying jobs in this country? 

We have been giving loads of incentives in the form of corporate tax breaks to the businesses and this does not look to be sparking any increase of jobs.  We got the Bush tax cuts in place which allows the wealthy to keep their money so that they can invest more of their money into the economy, and this has not worked at all. 

For me, I still maintain it is more of a revenue problem than a spending problem.  We just do not have that many good-paying good jobs available anymore.  We got alot of low-paying jobs which provide no healthcare or retirement benefits. 

What could Romney and the GOP do to increase good-paying jobs in this country?  How would or could they make things better for the middle class where the families and individuals are struggling?  They get rid of Obamacare then how do they manage the escalating healthcare costs for people?  They are under the philosophy of cutting back on government benefits and funding to the states, correct?  You cannot keep people from getting sick, so how do they fix it? 




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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 04:40 pm
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mike3775



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Obamacare has not and will not lower healthcare costs.  Sure the insurance companies will now get more business, but how exactly is everyone being required to have insurance really driving down the costs?

Case in point, I just took one of my kids to the hospital for a broken leg, and last year around the same time, I had another kid break a leg and this year, the costs are more, even though insurance paid 90% of it, I still owe more with my 10% then I did last year when I owed 80% after insurance.  Amazingly, even with insurance, my costs still went up, including how much I have to pay for that insurance.  So Obamacare has not and will not do shit for driving down healthcare prices

As far as getting good paying jobs into this country, there are three things that need to be done in order for that to happen.  1) Costs of college education must get contained.  It is absolute bullshit that a 4 yr public college can raise tuition 3-7% every single year, making it to expensive for 18 yr olds to go to college.  Yes kids can work through school to offset some of those costs, but even with grants and job income, they graduate owing thousands of dollars in debt.  2)  Tariff the shit out of anything manufactured out of the US that is then imported into the US.  Many businesses would then relocate back into the US because the cost savings would be eliminated.  Apple's CEO recently stated its not cost efficient to make the iPads and iPhones in the US because the wages are so high.  Well then place tariffs on those very Apple products, and I bet the effeciency to make them in the US would improve markedly.  Also get us out of the fucking WTO as well, as thats the biggest anti-USA organization on the planet besides the UN.  3)  Close every single loophole that corporations use to allow themselves to earn billions and pay zero in taxes like GE does. 


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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 04:42 pm
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JB5



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mike3775 wrote: Obamacare has not and will not lower healthcare costs.  Sure the insurance companies will now get more business, but how exactly is everyone being required to have insurance really driving down the costs?

Case in point, I just took one of my kids to the hospital for a broken leg, and last year around the same time, I had another kid break a leg and this year, the costs are more, even though insurance paid 90% of it, I still owe more with my 10% then I did last year when I owed 80% after insurance.  Amazingly, even with insurance, my costs still went up, including how much I have to pay for that insurance.  So Obamacare has not and will not do shit for driving down healthcare prices

As far as getting good paying jobs into this country, there are three things that need to be done in order for that to happen.  1) Costs of college education must get contained.  It is absolute bullshit that a 4 yr public college can raise tuition 3-7% every single year, making it to expensive for 18 yr olds to go to college.  Yes kids can work through school to offset some of those costs, but even with grants and job income, they graduate owing thousands of dollars in debt.  2)  Tariff the shit out of anything manufactured out of the US that is then imported into the US.  Many businesses would then relocate back into the US because the cost savings would be eliminated.  Apple's CEO recently stated its not cost efficient to make the iPads and iPhones in the US because the wages are so high.  Well then place tariffs on those very Apple products, and I bet the effeciency to make them in the US would improve markedly.  Also get us out of the fucking WTO as well, as thats the biggest anti-USA organization on the planet besides the UN.  3)  Close every single loophole that corporations use to allow themselves to earn billions and pay zero in taxes like GE does. 



I rarely get involved in these political threads, and rarely agree with anything Mike says <g>, but this is dead on. I don't know how feasible it is, but each idea is fucking spot on.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 05:07 pm
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Papa Voo



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I am not concerned about one story in regards to Obamacare or any other alternative being thrown about out there.  We could all come up with war stories.  


The bigger issue is if it will relieve the financial stress being put on the states with things like Medicaid.  I do not think "everybody's" costs will go down with any plan.  I think it is more about regulating the costs better.  I do not think we are in full-swing of the Obamacare, yet, so I do not think we can see a clear picture of how this is going to work out.  He lost my support when he caved in to the insurance companies.  They should have had the single-payer option which I think would have probably leveled the playing field in terms of cost and brought about a certain amount of competition regarding costs. 

What is the Romney, GOP supposed plan if they get Obamacare repealed?  It is definitely an issue needing addressed.  Are they still relying on churches and community centers to cover the bills with compassionate conservatism?  Are they threatening to regulate the insurance companies (no way). 

The GOP hate and despise even the wording of a single-payer system.

I think it is a game and Obamacare is not going anywhere. 

Last edited on Sat Jul 7th, 2012 05:35 pm by Papa Voo



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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 05:48 pm
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So, Mike - "What could Romney & GOP Acutally Do?"

;)



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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 06:12 pm
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I'm afraid if We get another " businessman" in office. like the Bush/Cheney ticket, even more jobs will go overseas and the Rich will get even more of a tax break, while the middle & Lower class will basically become One. People need to remember that the Economy started to go into the tank with Bush in office and not Obama.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 06:25 pm
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Papa Voo



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mike3775 wrote:

As far as getting good paying jobs into this country, there are three things that need to be done in order for that to happen.  1) Costs of college education must get contained.  It is absolute bullshit that a 4 yr public college can raise tuition 3-7% every single year, making it to expensive for 18 yr olds to go to college.  Yes kids can work through school to offset some of those costs, but even with grants and job income, they graduate owing thousands of dollars in debt.  2)  Tariff the shit out of anything manufactured out of the US that is then imported into the US.  Many businesses would then relocate back into the US because the cost savings would be eliminated.  Apple's CEO recently stated its not cost efficient to make the iPads and iPhones in the US because the wages are so high.  Well then place tariffs on those very Apple products, and I bet the effeciency to make them in the US would improve markedly.  Also get us out of the fucking WTO as well, as thats the biggest anti-USA organization on the planet besides the UN.  3)  Close every single loophole that corporations use to allow themselves to earn billions and pay zero in taxes like GE does. 




Are you saying Romney and the GOP would actually do these things if given the opportunity?



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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 07:43 pm
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mike3775



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Papa Voo wrote: mike3775 wrote:

As far as getting good paying jobs into this country, there are three things that need to be done in order for that to happen.  1) Costs of college education must get contained.  It is absolute bullshit that a 4 yr public college can raise tuition 3-7% every single year, making it to expensive for 18 yr olds to go to college.  Yes kids can work through school to offset some of those costs, but even with grants and job income, they graduate owing thousands of dollars in debt.  2)  Tariff the shit out of anything manufactured out of the US that is then imported into the US.  Many businesses would then relocate back into the US because the cost savings would be eliminated.  Apple's CEO recently stated its not cost efficient to make the iPads and iPhones in the US because the wages are so high.  Well then place tariffs on those very Apple products, and I bet the effeciency to make them in the US would improve markedly.  Also get us out of the fucking WTO as well, as thats the biggest anti-USA organization on the planet besides the UN.  3)  Close every single loophole that corporations use to allow themselves to earn billions and pay zero in taxes like GE does. 




Are you saying Romney and the GOP would actually do these things if given the opportunity?
Neither party is going to do that, they would bite the hand that feeds them. 

As far as states and medicare, Obamacare PUNISHES states if they refuse to expand it.  I have no issues with expanding it, but if there is not any revenues to offset those higher costs of expanding it, it should not be done.  Its just like every single state that has ever raised cigarette taxes to offset expanding insurance(like Illinois now has done twice in the past 5 yrs).  They always claim that the taxes raised will pay for "thousands upon thousands" of people to now be covered, yet a year later, maybe hundreds got it, and the fund is short money, because the expected revenues never materialized, which of course a 10 yr old would tell you the main reason why is because smokers would find cheaper ways to get the cigarettes then paying higher taxes, and surrounding states got a windfall on cigarette taxes from people going across the border.  Why should states be forced to choose between losing its federal gas tax revenue or run in the red with expanded medicare? 

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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 09:29 pm
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mike3775 wrote: Papa Voo wrote: mike3775 wrote:

As far as getting good paying jobs into this country, there are three things that need to be done in order for that to happen.  1) Costs of college education must get contained.  It is absolute bullshit that a 4 yr public college can raise tuition 3-7% every single year, making it to expensive for 18 yr olds to go to college.  Yes kids can work through school to offset some of those costs, but even with grants and job income, they graduate owing thousands of dollars in debt.  2)  Tariff the shit out of anything manufactured out of the US that is then imported into the US.  Many businesses would then relocate back into the US because the cost savings would be eliminated.  Apple's CEO recently stated its not cost efficient to make the iPads and iPhones in the US because the wages are so high.  Well then place tariffs on those very Apple products, and I bet the effeciency to make them in the US would improve markedly.  Also get us out of the fucking WTO as well, as thats the biggest anti-USA organization on the planet besides the UN.  3)  Close every single loophole that corporations use to allow themselves to earn billions and pay zero in taxes like GE does. 




Are you saying Romney and the GOP would actually do these things if given the opportunity?
Neither party is going to do that, they would bite the hand that feeds them. 

As far as states and medicare, Obamacare PUNISHES states if they refuse to expand it.  I have no issues with expanding it, but if there is not any revenues to offset those higher costs of expanding it, it should not be done.  Its just like every single state that has ever raised cigarette taxes to offset expanding insurance(like Illinois now has done twice in the past 5 yrs).  They always claim that the taxes raised will pay for "thousands upon thousands" of people to now be covered, yet a year later, maybe hundreds got it, and the fund is short money, because the expected revenues never materialized, which of course a 10 yr old would tell you the main reason why is because smokers would find cheaper ways to get the cigarettes then paying higher taxes, and surrounding states got a windfall on cigarette taxes from people going across the border.  Why should states be forced to choose between losing its federal gas tax revenue or run in the red with expanded medicare? 

 

If the federal government mandates that everybody needs to have health insurance and a Governor like Scott Walker, Rick Scott or John Kasich says fuck you, isn't there a need to enforce it?  First you say Obama has no balls and in the area that he shows them, you say it's unfair because he PUNISHES states for not complying.

We already had mandated health care laws requring states to comply.  The difference is you have to be a certain age to qualify.  Now you don't.  Was the goal to lower health care costs or provide coverage to those who can't afford it?  Children, pre-existing conditions, kids remaining on their parents health care plans into their mid 20s.  Those are some of the reasons.  And don't call it Obamacare.  Truth in labeling...it's Romneycare.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 7th, 2012 09:33 pm
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It doesn't matter which party gets elected except for one critical and important issue...The Supreme Court appointments. 



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 Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2012 04:13 am
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Papa Voo



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mike3775 wrote: Papa Voo wrote: mike3775 wrote:

As far as getting good paying jobs into this country, there are three things that need to be done in order for that to happen.  1) Costs of college education must get contained.  It is absolute bullshit that a 4 yr public college can raise tuition 3-7% every single year, making it to expensive for 18 yr olds to go to college.  Yes kids can work through school to offset some of those costs, but even with grants and job income, they graduate owing thousands of dollars in debt.  2)  Tariff the shit out of anything manufactured out of the US that is then imported into the US.  Many businesses would then relocate back into the US because the cost savings would be eliminated.  Apple's CEO recently stated its not cost efficient to make the iPads and iPhones in the US because the wages are so high.  Well then place tariffs on those very Apple products, and I bet the effeciency to make them in the US would improve markedly.  Also get us out of the fucking WTO as well, as thats the biggest anti-USA organization on the planet besides the UN.  3)  Close every single loophole that corporations use to allow themselves to earn billions and pay zero in taxes like GE does. 




Are you saying Romney and the GOP would actually do these things if given the opportunity?
Neither party is going to do that, they would bite the hand that feeds them. 

As far as states and medicare, Obamacare PUNISHES states if they refuse to expand it.  I have no issues with expanding it, but if there is not any revenues to offset those higher costs of expanding it, it should not be done.  Its just like every single state that has ever raised cigarette taxes to offset expanding insurance(like Illinois now has done twice in the past 5 yrs).  They always claim that the taxes raised will pay for "thousands upon thousands" of people to now be covered, yet a year later, maybe hundreds got it, and the fund is short money, because the expected revenues never materialized, which of course a 10 yr old would tell you the main reason why is because smokers would find cheaper ways to get the cigarettes then paying higher taxes, and surrounding states got a windfall on cigarette taxes from people going across the border.  Why should states be forced to choose between losing its federal gas tax revenue or run in the red with expanded medicare? 



The federal govt. has earmarked money to contain the costs for the states that do participate.  It is not like this is some mandate and the individual states have to come up with the money on their own.  That is why I said that the single-payer method would have been more cost-effective.   We are not talking about Medicare...it is MEDICAID. We have already taxed smokers to the nth degree in PA and it is not covering the costs.  The current policy is that you must tax certain things like cigarettes to receive the federal money.  You cannot have a state that basically gives the green-light to smokers and then agree to cover their costs.



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 Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2012 04:16 am
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Papa Voo



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mike3775 wrote: Papa Voo wrote: mike3775 wrote:

As far as getting good paying jobs into this country, there are three things that need to be done in order for that to happen.  1) Costs of college education must get contained.  It is absolute bullshit that a 4 yr public college can raise tuition 3-7% every single year, making it to expensive for 18 yr olds to go to college.  Yes kids can work through school to offset some of those costs, but even with grants and job income, they graduate owing thousands of dollars in debt.  2)  Tariff the shit out of anything manufactured out of the US that is then imported into the US.  Many businesses would then relocate back into the US because the cost savings would be eliminated.  Apple's CEO recently stated its not cost efficient to make the iPads and iPhones in the US because the wages are so high.  Well then place tariffs on those very Apple products, and I bet the effeciency to make them in the US would improve markedly.  Also get us out of the fucking WTO as well, as thats the biggest anti-USA organization on the planet besides the UN.  3)  Close every single loophole that corporations use to allow themselves to earn billions and pay zero in taxes like GE does. 




Are you saying Romney and the GOP would actually do these things if given the opportunity?
Neither party is going to do that, they would bite the hand that feeds them. 



I am asking what does Romney and the GOP bring to the table to help the economy and the middle class?  I am not asking what either party should do in your own opinion.   What can the GOP and Romney offer to benefit the circumstances we are in today?

Last edited on Sun Jul 8th, 2012 04:17 am by Papa Voo



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 Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2012 09:41 pm
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 Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2012 11:11 pm
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What could Romney and the GOP do to increase good-paying jobs in this country?  How would or could they make things better for the middle class where the families and individuals are struggling?  They get rid of Obamacare then how do they manage the escalating healthcare costs for people?  They are under the philosophy of cutting back on government benefits and funding to the states, correct?  You cannot keep people from getting sick, so how do they fix it? 

1) Impose penalties on companies which do not pay a "living wage". If a company pays minimum wage, has a disproportionate ratio of part-time vs. full-time employees, and does not offer healthcare benefits, the company should pay a higher tax rate since it is relying upon the government's social service programs (such as Medicaid, WIC) to support its employees.

2) Overhaul the unemployment system. No more having people on the unemployment dole for over a year. Instead, implement a supplemental stipend system so that people are encouraged to work for wages while also receiving a stipend to make it more lucrative than just receiving unemployment pay for sitting at home.

3) If you are on Medicaid or some other form of government healthcare assistance, you are held responsible for improving your health. Are you a Medicaid recipient with a 2 pack a day habit? You risk losing your Medicaid benefits unless you successfully complete a smoking cessation program and quit smoking. Yes - you will be drug tested for nicotine and illicit drugs. Test positive and you lose your Medicaid benefits. Receiving Medicaid benefits but are morbidly obese with a 6 Twinkie per day habit? Expect to attend regular Weight Watchers meetings and your attendance/weight will be verified. Miss too many meetings or keep packing on the pounds and you lose your Medicaid benefits. A lot of the healthcare spending should be kept in check through personal responsibility.


4) Eliminate relying upon employers to provide healthcare benefits for their employees. This often limits the choices available to employees and can also lead to "health discrimination" when hiring (for example, a company won't hire a potential employee who smokes because it may cause the employer's share of health insurance premiums to go up). Additionally, potential new hires will not know how much their take-home pay will be since health benefits and their associated costs are often not discussed during the hiring process. Instead, employers should pay a health insurance stipend directly to the employee that the employee can use to purchase his own insurance. If he purchases a cheap plan, he can pocket the leftover stipend amount. If he purchases an expensive plan, he will need to pay the extra cost out of pocket.

5) Revise bankruptcy laws to make it harder to declare bankruptcy due to medical expenses. If you chose not to buy health insurance and then were hit by a bus, you should be held responsible for the choice that you made. Obamacare is promising to make healthcare more affordable and more available for all. If it does accomplish this (I am hopeful but not drinking the Kool-Aid yet), then purchasing health insurance should be a responsibility for all. If you choose to not be responsible (and not purchase insurance), then you should pay for your irresponsibility if a medical catastrophe strikes you.  

6) Require insurance companies to only offer "comprehensive plans". No more getting medical insurance from Blue Cross / Blue Shield, prescription insurance from Humana, and dental coverage from another insurer such as United Concordia. Instead, all healthcare-related insurance plans are to be with one insurer. This will force the insurer to approve therapies that will be more beneficial and cost efficient over the long-term than the current "pass the buck" form of insurance we currently have. Also, eliminate middle men such as Prescription Benefit Managers.

Healthcare spending is a very complicated issue and I honestly don't ever see anyone being able to come up with a good solution for it. The main problem I believe is that people want top-quality healthcare but expect somebody else (insurance) to pay for it. Additionally, we all want to live forever but don't want to live a healthy lifestyle to help us live longer - again we expect someone else to pay for it. People blow through their entire life savings (and often put their families in debt) during the last 3 to 5 years of their life. Homes are no longer left to family members as an inheritence. Instead, they are signed over to long-term care facilities as payment for the care they receive during the last years of their lives. Are a couple more years of life worth the cost?

Last edited on Mon Jul 9th, 2012 12:16 am by Big Garea Fan

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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2012 06:30 am
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Who here really thinks that the GOP will try to do 1) ?



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