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Mass shooting at Connecticut Elementary School  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 02:21 am
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Big Garea Fan

 

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mike3775 wrote: ...But those buyback programs are never worth it.  Usually its like $100, most guns cost more than that.

I remember one year Chicago did it, and I wondered how many of the guns turned in were stolen, since it was no questions asked, walk in, hand the gun, get the card and leave.

If people (taxpayers / corporate sponsors) believe that this is an important cause, I think they would be willing to up the amount of the payouts. Of course, this all assumes that such weapons would be deemed illegal and that the sale, manufacturing, or importing would also be illegal and subject to stiff penalties for violators.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 02:52 am
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ChrisOTL

 

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Quattro wrote: Big Garea Fan wrote:
thunderbolt wrote: ...As has been pointed out, there are no laws which could be enacted now which would do a thing about the hundreds of millions of weapons and hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition already in private ownership.  

Good point. If laws were enacted now, that should stop the production of new weapons / ammo. I wonder if a gun buyback program would be effective to coerce owners into surrendering the weapons / ammo already in their possession?


Do you think the gang bangers would care?
The gangstas only kill each other with their illegal weapons, so who really gives a shit if they return them or not? Illegal weapons will always exist, no matter what gun control laws you have. However, strict gun control laws, make it VERY difficult for complete fucking lunatics to get their hands on them, and commit horrific crimes like the one that happened yesterday.

I'd love to hear a valid reason why someone should legally be allowed to purchase an assault rifle or automatic weapon. Just one.

If the United States joins the rest of the civilized world, and enacts some gun laws, things may not change over night, but, eventually, maybe one or two generations from now they will. 

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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 02:58 am
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mike3775



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I'd love to hear a valid reason why someone should legally be allowed to purchase an assault rifle or automatic weapon. Just one.

There isn't one.  There used to be a ban on them, but for some stupid reason, Congress let the ban expire, instead of renewing it back in 2004

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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 03:18 am
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silentkiller



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Chris OtL wrote:
Quattro wrote: Big Garea Fan wrote:
thunderbolt wrote: ...As has been pointed out, there are no laws which
Good point. If laws were enacted now, that should stop the production of new weapons / ammo. I wonder if a gun buyback program would be effective to coerce owners into surrendering the weapons / ammo already in their possession?


Do you think the gang bangers would care?
The gangstas only kill each other with their illegal weapons, so who really gives a shit if they return them or not? Illegal weapons will always exist, no matter what gun control laws you have. However, strict gun control laws, make it VERY difficult for complete fucking lunatics to get their hands on them, and commit horrific crimes like the one that happened yesterday.

I'd love to hear a valid reason why someone should legally be allowed to purchase an assault rifle or automatic weapon. Just one.

If the United States joins the rest of the civilized world, and enacts some gun laws, things may not change over night, but, eventually, maybe one or two generations from now they will. 


Everybody else living in the hood would care. And many innocent bystanders have been killed in gang related shoot outs. One of the main reasons many people even have illegal guns in these neighborhoods is to protect themselves from some of the reckless thugs out there.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 04:03 am
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ChrisOTL

 

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Then get the fuck out of the hood, or stop allowing your community to be "the hood".

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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 08:04 am
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kargol



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mike3775 wrote: Kriss wrote: Married Jo wrote:
Conneticut already has some of the strictest gun laws on the books, more gun control probably wouldn't have prevented this. I'm not a big gun guy, I own 5 guns and all 5 of them were given to me, I haven't shot any of them in probably 2 years, but damn, more laws aren't going to fix a goddamned thing, it's only going to make it worse. As someone has already touched on, instead of hand-wringing over guns and more laws, etc, etc, how about let's put more effort into the mental health problems some of these people have. Get it to where people notice these people earlier, and make it to where they can get help (whether voluntary or involuntary) easier instead of making it harder. Apparently this guy had asperger's syndrome and people that knew him said he was mentally unstable. I guarantee you SOMEONE around him knew he was off and was capable of doing something insane like this, yet they didn't bother telling anyone, including his family. And now not only are they dead, but a bunch of innocent children are as well.

Like I said, I'm not a gun nut, but about the only thing I'll agree with anyone on when it comes to more gun laws is banning large clips, but in reality, a lot of those things are already banned. A lot of assault rifles are already banned. People still find a way to get them, just like drugs, just like illegal liquor, just like anything that is "banned"...


I think it probably would. With strict gun control laws (i.e. 99.9% of the population aren't allowed to own a gun), this guy probably wouldn't have access to a gun.
then you run afoul of that pesky 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution. 


Actually, you don't.  Indeed tight gun control is mandated by the 2nd Amendment.  The NRA's arguments are unconstitutional.

Look what it means.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
There are certain key facts here.

1. The US needs a militia.  Back in 1776 it didn't have a professional army per se.  "Just" the citizen body.

2. It needs to be well regulated.  Not just regulated, but well regulated.

3. It is the right of the people to bear arms.  Not individuals, but the people.  The body as a whole.  "We the people".  If it was an individual right to bear arms, it would have said "the right of the individual" or "the citizen" or something.

4. The right shall not be infringed.  By whom?  The Government.

What the 2nd Amendment does, therefore, is say that the people, the citizen body as a whole, shall be in charge of national security, and shall ensure, as a constitutional duty, that there is a proper arrangement by which the people can be armed for the purposes of being a militia.

It does not say that anyone has the right to bear arms - even if they are well regulated in doing so.





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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 08:08 am
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kargol



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srossi wrote:
Yeah, I've seen the popular Facebook meme.  Original.  And that's not what you said.  Someone pointed out that Mexico has strict gun control laws and it hasn't helped.  You changed the conversation into an economic/racist one at that point because you had no rebuttal to that point.

The easy rebuttal is having laws is one thing, enforcing them is another.  Mexico has a pisspoor record on that...



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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 10:34 am
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Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

TURN OFF THE NEWS

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

Last edited on Sun Dec 16th, 2012 10:34 am by Greatmuta1025

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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 11:24 am
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Famous Mortimer



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Anyone wanting to say people who believe in gun control shouldn't make political capital out of a tragedy...well, maybe tell this guy first:

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/15/gun_owners_of_america_gun_control_advocates_have_the_blood_of_little_children_on_their_hands/


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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 11:45 am
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silentkiller



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Chris OtL wrote:
Then get the fuck out of the hood, or stop allowing your community to be "the hood".


Easier said than done when a whole host of industries depends on these places existing.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 01:33 pm
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Married Jo



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Greatmuta1025 wrote:
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

TURN OFF THE NEWS

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."


That IS brilliant and 100% spot on and should be required reading for everyone. Which means that there's no way in hell Morgan Freeman said that.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 04:43 pm
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WongLee
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Married Jo wrote: Greatmuta1025 wrote:
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

TURN OFF THE NEWS

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."


That IS brilliant and 100% spot on and should be required reading for everyone. Which means that there's no way in hell Morgan Freeman said that.

I disagree. Mass murder is not a sport driven by statistics. The guys who go on these rampages are completely deranged. I'm sure Lanza had no idea who the Batman guy was and the Batman guy had no idea who the Virginia Tech guy was and so on. These gunmen are at a whole different level of insane and they just want to fulfill their god-complex by having the authority of life or death over innocent people who can't defend themselves.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 05:03 pm
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indikator

 

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Actually Freemans viewpoint is pretty much the general consensus here, and you know that we had our fair share of shootings. And I tend to agree with the likeliness of it

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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 05:07 pm
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beejmi
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The media is just trying to "sell papers" (or draw traffic)

If there was a murder somewhere and the identify of the person wasn't revealed we would all scream that there was a coverup happening to protect somebody else.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2012 05:15 pm
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indikator

 

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Yes and no... the lines can blur quite a bit. To give you local examples

There was a crime recently where some southeast asian kid in Berlin I think was killed in a scuffle with Turkish hoodlums and his ethnic background was almost never spoken of. This never ever happens when some old German retiree is attacked in a subway. Angry old retirees = newspaper $$$

In a similar way, if a middleeastern guy here offs his family it is an "honor murder" (sharia influence, vendetta thinking etc.) but if a local caucasian guy does the shame it's just a "tragedy".

So I would say that there is discrimination in the legal sense.

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