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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 05:35 pm
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martini
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I'm all for the states taking over. I don't know any of the other particulars, but I do like that part.

The federal government screws up everything it touches as it has with Obamacare. They banked on younger people buying in to hold the program up. The younger people have balked with many going uninsured.

I've long thought the liberals' plan was to pass something so impossible to succeed (such as this social welfare program disguised as health insurance) that once they let the toothpaste out of the tube could only be replaced by a single-payer system.

Last edited on Thu Sep 21st, 2017 06:06 pm by martini



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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 05:59 pm
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DaNkinator wrote: Agreed.

I'm just curious why those who are so adamant that Ocare is bad, can support something like this.

Other than that whole "me and my own" mentality....that is until it happens to them and their own.
Agree on both accounts.  Graham Cassidy keeps the worst parts of Obamacare and adds even more horrible shit.  Ocare is NOT a good system.  However, it can be made better.  I actually agree with SRossi's view.  Transparency in the system would change a lot.  
My view is becoming that there are 2 ways to approach this issue.  One is to develop a single payer system.  That does NOT mean it is free.  Everyone has to pay for a set of coverages that are core to a person's care.  You can add on at your own pleasure.  The basic premium charge could be scaled for income. 
The other way is to get rid of insurance altogether.  In that system, you, not your health insurance firm, would become the client.  Make every cost transparent.  Introduce true price competition.  Allow the market to sort it out.  In the end, prices should come down.  Then again, that is an idealistic view.  Perhaps that wouldn't happen. 
What we have now is the worst of all worlds though.  A non-transparent system full of vagueness controlled by intermediaries.  The system we have now is purely by accident.  It would be insane to set this up from scratch. 

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 06:09 pm
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Ultimark



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martini wrote: I'm all for the states taking over. I don't know any of the other particulars, but I do like that part.

That said, the federal government screws up everything it touches as it has with Obamacare. They banked on younger people buying in to hold the program up. The younger people have balked with many going uninsured.

I've long thought the liberals' plan was to pass something so impossible to succeed (such as this social welfare program disguised as health insurance) that once they let the toothpaste out of the tube could only be replaced by a single-payer system.
The problem is that the Governors of both Dem and Rep states have mentioned (perhaps you should actually read about it before supporting it), is that the states cannot afford to have the onus placed on them.  
The issue with the younger people not getting in was because the Dems, as usual, were too lenient on the approach.  Make the fine $20,000 for not complying and I guarantee you would have almost full compliance.   
Here is the most ironic part of all - the very people who put Trump over the top are the ones who will suffer the most with Trumpcare.  These are the small business owners who have no, or only a few employees, have a couple of kids and make something like 40 to 70K a year.  A lot of people fall into that.  The subsidies they have been receiving will GO AWAY.  How many of these people fall into the 50-64 year old age?  Based on polling data - quite a bit.  They will pay 2 to 3 times the amount they are paying now UNLESS they want to get rid of something like prescription drug coverage.  Then, they might only pay slightly more than they pay today.  
Also, the expanded Medicaid covers a lot of the working poor.  These are your people making 25 to 30K a year with a couple of kids.  They didn't qualify for Medicaid but do now. Eventually they will lose coverage.  This describes a lot of people in rural areas.  There have been interviews where they say they now have coverage but don't seem to understand that it is Obamacare. 
Ocare is a mess btw.  This solution is, however, worse. 

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 06:18 pm
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khawk wrote: wittman2 wrote: I'm a Republican, I really don't like Obama care, but this plan is actually shittier than the ACA.

I recently had hernia surgery, outpatient, and the total bill was over 100k. My surgeon's part of the bill was only $850. Absolutely ridiculous

Jesus fucking Christ. 
There is no world where a price tag like that for an outpatient hernia operation makes any sense. None.
Is shouldering that much debt for medical issues just something people do with no hope of ever paying it off? Do they send guys to put your hernia back in if you can't pay by a certain time? 
I know/knew how bad it was down there but seeing that kind of number attached to a Hernia operation is truly WTF. Stunning.

Agree totally.  It is a fucking disgrace.   What is going to happen is that certain people are going to go overseas for procedures.  That has already started. 

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 06:34 pm
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I also want to comment on Srossi's thoughts on college education. He is right about the cost being insane and the availability of aid actually increasing the cost. However, the impact is now being felt. Small, private colleges across the country are now in some cases beginning to lower tuition. The cost has gotten so high that loans and grants can no longer cover the cost. Frankly, many kids and their parents don't want the kids going to a no name school for $45K a year when it won't get you a return in the end.

I have a daughter that will be in college next year and one 3 years after that. They both want to go to name schools. My hope is for some tuition discounting for merit. That is more common than people think. In the end, I have told both of then that I will commit to a certain figure and that is it. Period. I won't co-sign loans. A student can only get $10,000 a year before they start demanding co-signers. I don't give a shit. I won't do it.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 07:47 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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We had my stepdaughter do 2 years initially at the local JUCO. It ran @ 2500/year for tuition but most of that was covered through the Missouri A+ Program. Then she transferred to KU. Did her remaining 2 years there. Now she's in Med School up in Milwaukee. Total out of pocket outlay for her undergrad, tuition and books was @ 18k. We took the same approach. Told her if she wanted to go to a high end name school, we'd cover the equivalent to her going to a state school, but beyond that total, the rest was on her. We weren't dropping 25k+/year on a private college, to have her end up in the exact same spot she's in now...on her way to becoming a physician.

I see this shit at work all the time. Girls who spend a fortune on getting a BSN at one of the local Private Unversities, graduating and getting the exact same paying job as the one who went to UMKC.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2017 11:51 pm
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Married Jo wrote: Big Garea Fan wrote: Is it worth it to spend $100,000 on a procedure that might add 2-3 years to your life?

I only live once so fuck yeah it's worth it..

That's exactly my point. There are a lot of people that think that way (myself included). The problem is that the insurance company will be paying the bulk (if not all) of that $100,000. Are they going to get $100,000 worth of premiums out of you? I doubt it. As a result, the insurer will actually be losing money on you and will up the premiums / reduce the coverage for all of its policyholders to make up the loss. Multiply this by the thousands upon thousands of people who are in the same situation and it is obvious why the premiums / co-pays are going through the roof while less coverage is being provided.

Is anybody willing to forego procedures so the rest of us don't get stuck with the bill? I doubt it.

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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:23 am
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Post 1 of 5...

In case you haven't seen it, Jimmy Kimmel has been blasting the Graham-Cassidy plan. Kimmel's son has a congenital heart defect that required surgery and after his son received care, Kimmel did a monologue about the need for healthcare reform:


Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:40 am by Big Garea Fan

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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:27 am
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A week later, Kimmel has Cassidy on his show to provide a preview of the Graham-Cassidy bill. At the time, it was all unicorns and rainbows...




Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:39 am by Big Garea Fan

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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:30 am
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Post 3 of 5...

Fast forward to this week when the details of the Graham-Cassidy plan were revealed...


Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:40 am by Big Garea Fan

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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:33 am
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Cassidy appeared on CNN to dispute Jimmy Kimmel's claims that he was lied to and tries to put a positive spin on his bill


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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:38 am
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Kimmel's response


Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:40 am by Big Garea Fan

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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 01:28 am
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wittman2 wrote: I'm a Republican, I really don't like Obama care, but this plan is actually shittier than the ACA.

I recently had hernia surgery, outpatient, and the total bill was over 100k. My surgeon's part of the bill was only $850. Absolutely ridiculous
I recently had a similar experience with my son.
He had a cyst removed and a one night hospital stay.  Had home health with a wound vac.  Surgeon's bill was by far the most reasonable.  2000 total approx. Hospital bill was pushing 20k.  Home health was 3k.  The ancillary providers 3 or 4K..  wound vac was 13k.  If you know what a would vac is it is basically a portable vacuum, a canister, some tubing, and some foam.  The total cost cannot be more than 750 bucks.  They charged me 13k to get the supplies and rent the unit.

Total bills are 40 to 50k for a pilonidal cyst removal.  Absurd.  PPO discounts took it down, but come on.  
Oh and I got charged 600 bucks for "patient education ". For some fucking nutritionists to walk in for LITERALLY ( and I know the definition of literally), 90 seconds and tell us to make sure he eats a lot of protein, and gets a lot of vitamin C to aid in wound healing.
WTF.
I'm a banker.  I deal with business people, and lawyers all day every day.  The medical profession is the biggest con of them all.


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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 02:25 am
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 Posted: Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 03:24 pm
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Quattro wrote: wittman2 wrote: I'm a Republican, I really don't like Obama care, but this plan is actually shittier than the ACA.

I recently had hernia surgery, outpatient, and the total bill was over 100k. My surgeon's part of the bill was only $850. Absolutely ridiculous
I recently had a similar experience with my son.
He had a cyst removed and a one night hospital stay.  Had home health with a wound vac.  Surgeon's bill was by far the most reasonable.  2000 total approx. Hospital bill was pushing 20k.  Home health was 3k.  The ancillary providers 3 or 4K..  wound vac was 13k.  If you know what a would vac is it is basically a portable vacuum, a canister, some tubing, and some foam.  The total cost cannot be more than 750 bucks.  They charged me 13k to get the supplies and rent the unit.

Total bills are 40 to 50k for a pilonidal cyst removal.  Absurd.  PPO discounts took it down, but come on.  
Oh and I got charged 600 bucks for "patient education ". For some fucking nutritionists to walk in for LITERALLY ( and I know the definition of literally), 90 seconds and tell us to make sure he eats a lot of protein, and gets a lot of vitamin C to aid in wound healing.
WTF.
I'm a banker.  I deal with business people, and lawyers all day every day.  The medical profession is the biggest con of them all.

So true.  Unreal.  

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