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 Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2017 06:48 pm
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Ultimark



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DaNkinator wrote: BlueThunder wrote: DaNkinator wrote: BlueThunder wrote: DaNkinator wrote: Mark it down.   Today gets the ball rolling towards Trump and Pence as well, going down.




How? He fell on his sword. Go back to chasing Russian spies.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.  Your willful ignorance has morphed into straight up stupidity.

But that's not really news around here.


Asking Flynn to reach out to Russia after the election proves collusion to steal the election?

Put your sock away and stop stroking.


See, you're so misinformed that you're missing key points.

There is more than sufficient evidence that Flynn was brought on in (By Kushner and thus Trump) order to communicate with Russia about lifting sanctions, changing the GOP's platform long before Trump was even voted as the candidate for them.  

I can give you tons of links to all of this info (sincere offer), but something tells me that your mind is already made up and no amount of evidence will ever convince you.

A Quid pro quo.  Clearly reached out to tell them they would help on sanctions.  Why?  That is where the admin is fucked.  Expect them to hammer Flynn very soon. Call him a convicted liar, etc.....Logic doesn't hold.  They can count on their people not remembering what they have said before. 

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 Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2017 06:48 pm
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srossi

 

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I’m talking about his most hardcore supporters who are flooding Facebook and social media with nonsense. It’s a very small percentage of the people whovoted for him, most of whom were just like, “Eh Hillary sucks, let’s tey this and see what happens.”



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 Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2017 06:57 pm
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Ultimark



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This is simple

Flynn and his son were fucked in multiple ways.

Both would have been convicted of crimes that would have sent them away for basically the rest of their lives.

Initially, it looked like they could have relied on pardons from Trump but Mueller outflanked them by attaching the NY AG's office. If Trump did that, they would have found a way to have NY state charge them with enough (not every charge could be brought through that office btw) to put them away for decades.

Flynn knew this. They had him cold. He knows exactly what was said or not said.

The reason Mueller has agreed to this can be only because of what Flynn has already divulged to Mueller. He wouldn't offer this deal otherwise.

The only links left in the chain are Trump and Kushner.

It is possible that collusion or a quid pro quo after the fact could be proven BUT I still think SRossi is correct that Trump would not be impeached unless enough R Senators believe it could cost them their seats and this would only become a concern after the 18 election and if the D's control the House at that point.

If Trump's real support was at 10%, then he would be well and truly fucked. I think it is easily triple that. A bit more probably.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2017 06:58 pm
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Ultimark



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srossi wrote: I’m talking about his most hardcore supporters who are flooding Facebook and social media with nonsense. It’s a very small percentage of the people whovoted for him, most of whom were just like, “Eh Hillary sucks, let’s tey this and see what happens.”
Neither of use can prove our stats but given his approval numbers after everything that has happened and after his endless deranged tweets, I will stand by my number. 

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 Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2017 07:03 pm
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Ultimark



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I should mention that I also think it is unlikely that enough R Senators after the 18 election (assuming D control of the House) would worry about their seats no matter what Trump has done or not done to get a conviction. He will have to be voted out.

Should that happen, I guarantee, in the irony of ironies, he will claim fraud and refuse to leave.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2017 07:59 pm
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srossi

 

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Confirmed that Flynn will testify that Trump directed him.



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 Posted: Fri Dec 1st, 2017 08:04 pm
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Ultimark



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Damn. So much for BT's "Flynn swallowed the sword" talking point. Couldn't even make it a day on that one.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 12:17 pm
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KGB

 

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And so, to sum up, President-elect Trump directed his national security advisor to make contact with Russia about matters of mutual interest, e.g. Syria/ISIS, An act that the Obama admin. had rightly green lighted  -- as any incoming administration should have the ability to begin constructing its own policies.  In the meantime Bob Ross of ABC gets suspended for four weeks after falsely reporting on Friday morning that this directive happened before the election and not after.  #Fake News.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/abc-news-suspends-brian-ross-reporting-error-51537428

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 02:56 pm
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Ultimark



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Why did he lie to the FBI about it and why did the admin continue with the lie?

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 03:43 pm
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Ultimark



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I will spell this out:

1. Mueller had a shit load on Flynn and Flynn's son.

2. They did not want to go to jail.

3. Flynn signed a cooperation agreement with the Feds. This means he has info that he is trading for reduced charges.

4. These can be revoked if he changes his mind

5. They would only agree to this trade if Flynn had info on people above him. There are only 4 people who fit that bill and two of them, Pence and Preibus seem to have been cut out of those issues.

6. The next in line is Jared. Russia is still a thing because Flynn attended meetings with Jared including the one where Jared requested using the Russian embassy to send messages to their government.

7. The obstruction of justice charge is pretty much a done deal at this point although I doubt it will go anywhere on Trump for the simple reason that Impeachment and conviction in the Senate isn't possible - at least not yet.

8. That leaves Jared as the big fish. I expect Trump to pardon him and then the NY AG office will file charges. Those cannot be pardoned.

9. The mid terms will be huge for Trump. If he can turn the tide and keep the House red then he will have ultimate power. If not, then the 2 years after that will make the last year seem friendly.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 03:48 pm
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srossi

 

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Ultimark wrote: I will spell this out:

1. Mueller had a shit load on Flynn and Flynn's son.

2. They did not want to go to jail.

3. Flynn signed a cooperation agreement with the Feds. This means he has info that he is trading for reduced charges.

4. These can be revoked if he changes his mind

5. They would only agree to this trade if Flynn had info on people above him. There are only 4 people who fit that bill and two of them, Pence and Preibus seem to have been cut out of those issues.

6. The next in line is Jared. Russia is still a thing because Flynn attended meetings with Jared including the one where Jared requested using the Russian embassy to send messages to their government.

7. The obstruction of justice charge is pretty much a done deal at this point although I doubt it will go anywhere on Trump for the simple reason that Impeachment and conviction in the Senate isn't possible - at least not yet.

8. That leaves Jared as the big fish. I expect Trump to pardon him and then the NY AG office will file charges. Those cannot be pardoned.

9. The mid terms will be huge for Trump. If he can turn the tide and keep the House red then he will have ultimate power. If not, then the 2 years after that will make the last year seem friendly.

This is a pretty good summary as I understand it too.

The bottom line is I don't think this will lead to impeachment and certainly not removal from office.  Others within the administration, possibly Jared, will go down though.  Trump supporters will continue to cry FAKE NEWS.  Democrats will scream bloody murder.  Nothing much will change there.  Do I think it's as big a deal as some?  Probably not.  But I've been jaded, and the country has been jaded, to the point that Watergate certainly wouldn't seem impeachable these days either.  The level of secrecy and amount of lying surrounding this shows that they were up to no good and Trump knew about all of it, even though I genuinely believe that he's not smart enough or politically savvy enough to realize what he was doing at the time.  But that said, if Hillary or Obama did half this stuff, I don't even need to tell you what Trump would be saying.



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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 03:53 pm
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Ultimark



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Yea, Democrats need to stop fantasizing about Trump being in jail and worry about winning elections. Trump just endorse Moore who will probably win. Use that. When they get to a POTUS election, if they nominate Warren or someone like her, then Trump can certainly win again even with low approvals.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 03:55 pm
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Ultimark



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The Democrats get in their own way. They could pretty much ensure the majority in the House if Nancy Pelosi announced this would be her last term in office. Yet, the Dems would clearly put her back in as Speaker. That alone, could save many R's.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:28 pm
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Ultimark wrote: The Democrats get in their own way. They could pretty much ensure the majority in the House if Nancy Pelosi announced this would be her last term in office. Yet, the Dems would clearly put her back in as Speaker. That alone, could save many R's.
Which is why voting Dems, myself included, are fucked either way.
Shit is not going to change with Pelosi and Schumer in charge.  I would literally love to see any other Dem in that position.  Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard, I don't care.
They seem to be going full in on "We're not Trump" instead of building a platform.  How'd that work out for their last presidential candidate?
We need to be a 50 state party that grass roots around the country.  Go try to make headway into red states.  Actually develop a fucking platform.  Show what you can do for the people, instead if positioning yourself as the lesser of 2 evils.
 



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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 04:34 pm
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srossi

 

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nyhack56 wrote: Ultimark wrote: The Democrats get in their own way. They could pretty much ensure the majority in the House if Nancy Pelosi announced this would be her last term in office. Yet, the Dems would clearly put her back in as Speaker. That alone, could save many R's.
Which is why voting Dems, myself included, are fucked either way.
Shit is not going to change with Pelosi and Schumer in charge.  I would literally love to see any other Dem in that position.  Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard, I don't care.
They seem to be going full in on "We're not Trump" instead of building a platform.  How'd that work out for their last presidential candidate?
We need to be a 50 state party that grass roots around the country.  Go try to make headway into red states.  Actually develop a fucking platform.  Show what you can do for the people, instead if positioning yourself as the lesser of 2 evils.
 

Right now they seem to be drifting to the other extreme to counter-act the dangerous things being said by Republicans.  Instead of moderation, they are going towards full-on socialism and culture warrior crap.  Not saying Hillary was that, because she was just another neocon, but that's been 90% of the talk since she lost.  They will never, ever win nationally like that.   



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