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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 07:04 pm
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BlueThunder



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broke wrote: More like China-west (Or India North with $$$ if you want an easier target).... but we're talking about US tax reform, not Canadian open borders. You're pulling a Stingmark on me. ;)

FWIW I agree regarding having much stronger vetting on refugee claimants - but more for economic purposes rather than an irrational fear of being blown up by Sami Zayn's cousin after watching a pirate stream of Al Jazeera.


Well, if we reformed our immigration system, we'd have millions of less dependents. Basically, we've been taxed to support people who come here and milk us dry. I'd rather keep my own money and prevent future parasites from entering this country. Again, tax cuts is a code word for being allowed to keep your own money. And, we'll never be able to sustain these entitlement programs if we continue to allow every leech to enter our country.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 07:26 pm
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martini
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Benlen wrote: I could see people in california and new york getting screwed .
Based upon this comment and this comment alone. The tax reform bill has just gotten even more attractive to me. 
If only it were a fair share, flat tax rate for all. That's what I've longed to see.

Last edited on Thu Dec 21st, 2017 07:27 pm by martini



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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 07:30 pm
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DaNkinator



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So, complain about immigrant services, but no shits given about the debt we leave our kids with in 10 years?

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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 07:46 pm
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broke



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"I'll give you 1000 dollars now, provided you don't ask me to help you with something that's gonna cost 40,000 later"



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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 08:01 pm
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KGB

 

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DaNkinator wrote: So, complain about immigrant services, but no shits given about the debt we leave our kids with in 10 years?
Debt happens because you spend beyond your means.  Federal revenues are adequate for maintaining vital services in this country.  They're not high enough, however, to pay for all the vote-buying programs of our elected reps.  Cut the damn spending, put Washington DC into a wood chipper, and the debt will be reduced.  Also, please link to your posts during the period of 2009-2017 when a certain ex-President and his party members added to the national debt in a manner unprecedented in this nation's history.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 08:01 pm
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BlueThunder



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DaNkinator wrote: So, complain about immigrant services, but no shits given about the debt we leave our kids with in 10 years?

Since when did libs become fiscal hawks? And if we had sane immigration policies, we wouldn't be knee high in debt. Did you read that link I provided? I'll betcha good money that you're going to be the first one to scream racism and xenophobia when the RAISE Act is proposed.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 08:19 pm
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DaNkinator



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KGB wrote: DaNkinator wrote: So, complain about immigrant services, but no shits given about the debt we leave our kids with in 10 years?
Debt happens because you spend beyond your means.  Federal revenues are adequate for maintaining vital services in this country.  They're not high enough, however, to pay for all the vote-buying programs of our elected reps.  Cut the damn spending, put Washington DC into a wood chipper, and the debt will be reduced.  Also, please link to your posts during the period of 2009-2017 when a certain ex-President and his party members added to the national debt in a manner unprecedented in this nation's history.

I don't disagree.  I think reform is needed in both taxes and immigration.  What BT and to a lesser degree, yourself assume incorrectly, is that I'm a tried and true "liberal".   I consider myself more of a libertarian, where I'm fiscally conservative but socially liberal.  Sometimes, it's difficult for those two things not to overlap.

I've always had a problem with Obama's policies in regards to fiscal responsibility. 

But, throwing out his failures in that area doesn't change the fact that this tax reform will add even more to our debts.  And that's with Trump and the entire GOP running on the platform of reducing it and how irresponsible the previous administration and congress were for allowing it to climb.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2017 08:34 pm
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DaNkinator



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BlueThunder wrote: DaNkinator wrote: So, complain about immigrant services, but no shits given about the debt we leave our kids with in 10 years?

Since when did libs become fiscal hawks? And if we had sane immigration policies, we wouldn't be knee high in debt. Did you read that link I provided? I'll betcha good money that you're going to be the first one to scream racism and xenophobia when the RAISE Act is proposed.

The link that you provided is a bad one.

As for the RAISE Act, I think it could work.  But there are some nonsensical issues that need to be ironed out first.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 05:12 am
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Papa Voo



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It would be a great plan if we k ew where they are going to re over this loss in revenue.

I think we are on the cusp of getting Social Security and Medicare slashed to help pay for this plan.

I hope I am wrong.

Last edited on Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 02:22 pm by Papa Voo

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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 02:17 pm
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Ultimark



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The corporate tax was too high. However the secret to the bill is how they really aim to pay for it. Mandatory spending cuts to social security and medicare. Sure, they will hit other programs but that is where the money is and they will have no option. Since it passed, I have not followed it but I did hear that Trump might delay the signing until 18 so the cuts won't hit until 19. Make it less of an election issue.

I think any cuts on SS or medicare would be in the form of those who would collect in the future. If they cut a dime on people currently receiving those benefits, they would lose a hundred seats in the House.

As for the bill overall, it will actually save our household about $15,000. My wife's business is small enough that she can still be a LLC and count for pass through status. That is eliminated at 315K something we won't hit. We will save $10,000 on that and another $5k on the brackets.

The theory is my wife will hire someone with that extra money. Not true but I havre no doubt we will go on another vacation. She cannot get enough of travel. So that is a stimulative effect.

I think, upfront, we will see the positives. Tax $ returning from abroad and the cuts will stimulate the economy. Longer term, it could hurt but we can't know for certain.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 02:22 pm
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Ultimark



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Papa Voo wrote: It would be a great plan if we k ew where they are going to re over this loss in revenue.

I think we are on the cusp of getting Social Security and Medicare slashed to help,pay for this plan.

I hope I am wrong.
I doubt you are wrong.  That has long been the goal of Paul Ryan and reports have him retiring.  Since the cuts will be mandatory and would happen in 19, it would be very difficult to even a D controlled House to stop it.  That is the devious nature of this bill.  It not only ended Obamacare (without the mandate, people will be able to buy any policy they want in 19 - doesn't have to be compliant), but opened the door to lessening benefits on future recipients of SS and Medicare.  I mean, they accomplished 3 things at once.  

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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 02:24 pm
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Ultimark



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For those under 50, an easy way to do it would be to gradually increase the NRA for SS to 70 from 67. The slope could be over 10 years, meaning that if you are 49 now, your normal retirement age might be 67.2 years. There are a lot of ways they could do it but if it isn't bipartisan then the R's will be seriously screwed.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 02:25 pm
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Papa Voo



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All of that while Medicare and Social Security become more valuable during this volatile time with pensions and healthcare for retirees.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 02:27 pm
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Papa Voo



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I have NO problems with tax cuts. My problem is how they plan funding the loss in revenue.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 02:29 pm
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Papa Voo



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Ultimark wrote: The corporate tax was too high. However the secret to the bill is how they really aim to pay for it. Mandatory spending cuts to social security and medicare. Sure, they will hit other programs but that is where the money is and they will have no option. Since it passed, I have not followed it but I did hear that Trump might delay the signing until 18 so the cuts won't hit until 19. Make it less of an election issue.

I think any cuts on SS or medicare would be in the form of those who would collect in the future. If they cut a dime on people currently receiving those benefits, they would lose a hundred seats in the House.

As for the bill overall, it will actually save our household about $15,000. My wife's business is small enough that she can still be a LLC and count for pass through status. That is eliminated at 315K something we won't hit. We will save $10,000 on that and another $5k on the brackets.

The theory is my wife will hire someone with that extra money. Not true but I havre no doubt we will go on another vacation. She cannot get enough of travel. So that is a stimulative effect.

I think, upfront, we will see the positives. Tax $ returning from abroad and the cuts will stimulate the economy. Longer term, it could hurt but we can't know for certain.

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It was a failure the first time around so we will try it, again.  





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