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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 08:01 pm
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Angelic Assassin



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Still a gun issue if you ask me. The easier it is to get a gun the more likely  that incidents like this will continue to happen.
291 school shootings since 2013.
Here in the peg as an example meth is cheap and easily attainable apparently so ever crime lately it seems is being reported as fueled by a meth addiction.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 08:05 pm
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MadFrogVachon

 

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The Clinton Administration happened

Not that I'm blaming old Bill, I'm actually laying it at the feet of Newt Gingrich. Prior to him, when different parties were in charge of different branches of govt, they stil managed to find a way to compromise and get things done. Instead, Newt set up an office in the House whose sole purpose was to "get" Bill. It was no longer important that your side won, the other side had to lose. There was no compromise, only hate. The hate has been allowed to grow and prosper so now we are where we are today

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 08:14 pm
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BlueThunder



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Married Jo wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: Is there any other 1st world western nation where this shit happens as regularily? .
This shit didn't happen regularly HERE until around 30 years ago. So what changed in 30 years? 

Family structure has gone to complete shit. Almost all these shooters came from a dysfunctional family. Still and all, there's no way an 18 year old kid should be allowed to purchase such a weapon. I mean, one has to be 21 to buy a handgun, but an 18 year old can buy an AR15? 

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 08:39 pm
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Ultimark



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This kid should never have had access to a gun especially given his background. This will keep happening and we will have the same debate over and over again. Until people vote in a way that forces change, change will not happen.

I own 3 firearms for the record. Going to sell 2 to my brother in law. Not because I am anti-gun but because my eye sight is so poor, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I am keeping one and have taught my wife how to shoot. So, I am not anti-gun in the least. I am for common sense. That is not happening now.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 10:05 pm
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Ultimark



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The one Fed gun database in WV does not, by law allow a searchable database. It is all manual. So, in a month or two when this happens again, know that there is not easy way to ID these people beforehand. Even if someone is clearly nuts, it is not easy to find that they own firearms.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 10:09 pm
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Ultimark



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Further the founding fathers did NOT want to just anyone to have weapons. However, they understood the need to have citizens ready for war since we had almost no standing military when the Constitution was drawn up and war with either England or France was a definite possibility. Here is the actual text:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes, they believed it needed to be regulated.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 10:44 pm
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wittman2

 

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Kriss wrote: wittman2 wrote: broke wrote: When some backwoods yokel's right to have an automatic weapon trumps your children's right to life, your country is beyond saving.
Plus side, Rubio is getting roasted like a little bitch for his pathetic spin on this. 

Except AR-15's aren't automatic. 


Is that honestly your contribution to the discussion? Pathetic.

I think the biggest issue is all the money in politics which means that many of your elected officials are being paid by the NRA not to debate this.

Arguing about the minutia of the nomenclature of guns? It'll just keep on happening if you think that's the way to go.

Wow thoughtful insight as always Kriss. Way to have an open mind and not be a raging douche. Thoughts and prayers indeed.
The type of gun isn't the issue. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to change the magazine of a handgun. So unless we go back to muzzle loaders, the laws need to be stricter and/or changed, not the herd mentality of "BAN ALL TEH GUNZ!". 



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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 10:55 pm
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Kriss



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wittman2 wrote: Kriss wrote: wittman2 wrote: broke wrote: When some backwoods yokel's right to have an automatic weapon trumps your children's right to life, your country is beyond saving.
Plus side, Rubio is getting roasted like a little bitch for his pathetic spin on this. 

Except AR-15's aren't automatic. 


Is that honestly your contribution to the discussion? Pathetic.

I think the biggest issue is all the money in politics which means that many of your elected officials are being paid by the NRA not to debate this.

Arguing about the minutia of the nomenclature of guns? It'll just keep on happening if you think that's the way to go.

Wow thoughtful insight as always Kriss. Way to have an open mind and not be a raging douche. Thoughts and prayers indeed.
The type of gun isn't the issue. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to change the magazine of a handgun. So unless we go back to muzzle loaders, the laws need to be stricter and/or changed, not the herd mentality of "BAN ALL TEH GUNZ!". 



What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

You felt the most important thing to point out was that he got his gun terminology wrong. I'm telling you nothing will change while the gun manufacturers can pay off the politicians through the NRA.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:13 pm
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srossi
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Ultimark wrote: Further the founding fathers did NOT want to just anyone to have weapons. However, they understood the need to have citizens ready for war since we had almost no standing military when the Constitution was drawn up and war with either England or France was a definite possibility. Here is the actual text:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes, they believed it needed to be regulated.
The Founding Fathers actually thought the 2nd Amendment was essential to overthrow our own government if it got too tyrannical.  All of their private correspondence about the issue make that very clear. 



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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:17 pm
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Ultimark



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srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: Further the founding fathers did NOT want to just anyone to have weapons. However, they understood the need to have citizens ready for war since we had almost no standing military when the Constitution was drawn up and war with either England or France was a definite possibility. Here is the actual text:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes, they believed it needed to be regulated.
The Founding Fathers actually thought the 2nd Amendment was essential to overthrow our own government if it got too tyrannical.  All of their private correspondence about the issue make that very clear. 
That is selective.  There was just as much correspondence about how they feared mob mentality especially around the French Revolution.   Basically, you are quoting Jefferson, Madison and Monroe and that is fine.  However, many of the Founding Fathers understood the need for regulation.  That is why it was written as such. 

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:20 pm
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srossi
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Ultimark wrote: srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: Further the founding fathers did NOT want to just anyone to have weapons. However, they understood the need to have citizens ready for war since we had almost no standing military when the Constitution was drawn up and war with either England or France was a definite possibility. Here is the actual text:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes, they believed it needed to be regulated.
The Founding Fathers actually thought the 2nd Amendment was essential to overthrow our own government if it got too tyrannical.  All of their private correspondence about the issue make that very clear. 
That is selective.  There was just as much correspondence about how they feared mob mentality especially around the French Revolution.   Basically, you are quoting Jefferson, Madison and Monroe and that is fine.  However, many of the Founding Fathers understood the need for regulation.  That is why it was written as such. 

Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe are the only Founding Fathers worth quoting.  Adams and Hamilton were dicks and Washington was a general who didn't have much political savvy and got manipulated by Adams and Hamilton. 

Of course, re: the French Revolution, Jefferson fucking loved that to the point of absurdity and took a lot of heat for it.  He loved him some monarchs being executed, that's for sure.

Last edited on Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:22 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:21 pm
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Ultimark



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Kriss wrote: wittman2 wrote: Kriss wrote: wittman2 wrote: broke wrote: When some backwoods yokel's right to have an automatic weapon trumps your children's right to life, your country is beyond saving.
Plus side, Rubio is getting roasted like a little bitch for his pathetic spin on this. 

Except AR-15's aren't automatic. 


Is that honestly your contribution to the discussion? Pathetic.

I think the biggest issue is all the money in politics which means that many of your elected officials are being paid by the NRA not to debate this.

Arguing about the minutia of the nomenclature of guns? It'll just keep on happening if you think that's the way to go.

Wow thoughtful insight as always Kriss. Way to have an open mind and not be a raging douche. Thoughts and prayers indeed.
The type of gun isn't the issue. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to change the magazine of a handgun. So unless we go back to muzzle loaders, the laws need to be stricter and/or changed, not the herd mentality of "BAN ALL TEH GUNZ!". 



What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

You felt the most important thing to point out was that he got his gun terminology wrong. I'm telling you nothing will change while the gun manufacturers can pay off the politicians through the NRA.
I have no issue with law abiding people owning guns.  I am a gun owner myself.  However, any attempt to apply any sensible reform has been meant with steadfast resistance by the NRA.  I agree with Kriss that all you really need to do is to follow the money.  At the end of the line, that is absolutely what this all boils down to.  They use propaganda to misdirect.  I even know people who SWEAR the founding fathers did not write a "well regulated militia" in the 2nd A and that was added by "libruls" later on.  Really.  

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:24 pm
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Ultimark



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srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: Further the founding fathers did NOT want to just anyone to have weapons. However, they understood the need to have citizens ready for war since we had almost no standing military when the Constitution was drawn up and war with either England or France was a definite possibility. Here is the actual text:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes, they believed it needed to be regulated.
The Founding Fathers actually thought the 2nd Amendment was essential to overthrow our own government if it got too tyrannical.  All of their private correspondence about the issue make that very clear. 
That is selective.  There was just as much correspondence about how they feared mob mentality especially around the French Revolution.   Basically, you are quoting Jefferson, Madison and Monroe and that is fine.  However, many of the Founding Fathers understood the need for regulation.  That is why it was written as such. 

Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe are the only Founding Fathers worth quoting.  Adams and Hamilton were dicks and Washington was a general who didn't have much political savvy and got manipulated by Adams and Hamilton.  Of course, re: the French Revolution, Jefferson fucking loved that to the point of absurdity and took a lot of heat for it.  He loved him some monarchs being executed, that's for sure.
Oh yea?  Well, that's all I got.  Oh and Jefferson lived like a Monarch except he was always deep in debt.  The guy spent more than any founding father buy a factor of 10.  Not that that has anything to do with this debate.  Just interesting.  I am a Jeff fan overall.  No one was perfect though.  We mythologize these guys way too much. 

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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:29 pm
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srossi
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Ultimark wrote: srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: Further the founding fathers did NOT want to just anyone to have weapons. However, they understood the need to have citizens ready for war since we had almost no standing military when the Constitution was drawn up and war with either England or France was a definite possibility. Here is the actual text:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes, they believed it needed to be regulated.
The Founding Fathers actually thought the 2nd Amendment was essential to overthrow our own government if it got too tyrannical.  All of their private correspondence about the issue make that very clear. 
That is selective.  There was just as much correspondence about how they feared mob mentality especially around the French Revolution.   Basically, you are quoting Jefferson, Madison and Monroe and that is fine.  However, many of the Founding Fathers understood the need for regulation.  That is why it was written as such. 

Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe are the only Founding Fathers worth quoting.  Adams and Hamilton were dicks and Washington was a general who didn't have much political savvy and got manipulated by Adams and Hamilton.  Of course, re: the French Revolution, Jefferson fucking loved that to the point of absurdity and took a lot of heat for it.  He loved him some monarchs being executed, that's for sure.
Oh yea?  Well, that's all I got.  Oh and Jefferson lived like a Monarch except he was always deep in debt.  The guy spent more than any founding father buy a factor of 10.  Not that that has anything to do with this debate.  Just interesting.  I am a Jeff fan overall.  No one was perfect though.  We mythologize these guys way too much. 

I think Jefferson's personal flaws are well-established.  His personal spending was out of control and the state that he left his family in, both his white family and his slave family, due to those debts was disgraceful.  The fact that we still have Monticello and I was able to visit it is a bit of a miracle, but thank God we do.  Jefferson's daughter had to sell it because they were so far in debt and it changed hands several times and could've been razed at any point until the non-profit bought in back in the 1920s and saved it.

Nevertheless, as a politician he governed by his principles and was fiscally conservative.  The lengths he went to to make the Louisiana Purchase right, even though it was a steal that fell into his lap and that anyone else would've just used an Executive Order to do it, was honorable.  He agonized over even making the deal because it was technically beyond his powers. 

Last edited on Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:32 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri Feb 16th, 2018 11:33 pm
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wittman2

 

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I don't foresee any gun laws being passed/changed... as mentioned in multiple posts, too much money in the politicians pockets for that. I do think there needs to be either armed security at the school (or more than one, depending on the size of the school) or there needs to be a gun in the front office that the principal/VP and maybe one other staffer have bio-metric access to, and have been heavily trained to use. Schools are easy targets because it's well known that you can't carry on school property (legally, anyway) and the odds of a school having an armed security guard or faculty is slim to none. So when some jackhole wants to be a big man he goes where the odds of resistance are virtually nil



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