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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 02:24 am
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Quattro

 

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Mysterious wrote: kargol wrote: wigga
I'm far from being a wigga. In fact I can't stand them. But let's be honest. Just look at the facts to see for yourself. Rap music of early 90's glorified gang violence that type of music has changed a lot. Most of these shooters are racist white guys who have some affiliation to nationalist groups. Dylan Roof who is white shot up a black church. Doesn't seem thug like to me.
Pretty sure he was being very sarcastic in blaming it on rap music.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:29 am
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tamalie
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My wife is a teacher. I obviously know her well and know many of her colleagues. The suggestion that training these people to handle guns and then arming them is a good idea goes into the short list of the dumbest and most naïve things I have ever heard. It is astonishing that people think this would make a difference. It takes a certain type of individual to raise a gun and then fire it with the intent of incapacitating or killing a human being, even one who is armed and is in the process of badly wounding or killing children. Giving someone a gun and however many hours of initial training and then continuing education doesn't make them capable of using that gun in the event of a situation like this past week when tenths of seconds matter and the decision made has long term or permanent consequences. The whole scenario is preposterous.

On that track, I ask the following question sincerely. Has there ever been a mass shooting incident in the United States in which a person who was a potential victim, witness, and/or authority figure not from law enforcement or the military has had a firearm and was then able to shoot the attacker and end the situation? The Fort Hood shooting is disqualified from consideration in this conversation for reasons that ought to be obvious.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:36 am
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Mysterious



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Quattro wrote: Mysterious wrote: kargol wrote: wigga
I'm far from being a wigga. In fact I can't stand them. But let's be honest. Just look at the facts to see for yourself. Rap music of early 90's glorified gang violence that type of music has changed a lot. Most of these shooters are racist white guys who have some affiliation to nationalist groups. Dylan Roof who is white shot up a black church. Doesn't seem thug like to me.
Pretty sure he was being very sarcastic in blaming it on rap music.

In todsy's PC climate you never know. On a daily basis I read or hear about how some race or religion in destroying Europe or North America.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 10:04 am
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Kriss



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Don't worry, everyone, Dory Funk Jr has posted about this on Facebook and he's figured it all out.

It was.... the Devil.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 01:09 pm
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Infamous



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tamalie wrote: My wife is a teacher. I obviously know her well and know many of her colleagues. The suggestion that training these people to handle guns and then arming them is a good idea goes into the short list of the dumbest and most naïve things I have ever heard. It is astonishing that people think this would make a difference. It takes a certain type of individual to raise a gun and then fire it with the intent of incapacitating or killing a human being, even one who is armed and is in the process of badly wounding or killing children. Giving someone a gun and however many hours of initial training and then continuing education doesn't make them capable of using that gun in the event of a situation like this past week when tenths of seconds matter and the decision made has long term or permanent consequences. The whole scenario is preposterous.

On that track, I ask the following question sincerely. Has there ever been a mass shooting incident in the United States in which a person who was a potential victim, witness, and/or authority figure not from law enforcement or the military has had a firearm and was then able to shoot the attacker and end the situation? The Fort Hood shooting is disqualified from consideration in this conversation for reasons that ought to be obvious.

I think the point of armed guards would be deterrence. Knowing if potential location has armed guards or not will change the calculations of a shooter. That doesn't mean they won't pick another target but the point would be to deter SCHOOL shootings not mass shootings. Courts, airports, government buildings have armed guards so not really sure why schools would be any different. I understand there are kids but that's exactly why these spots are chosen...easy targets. When I went to high school we had police presence around our school all the time. It deterred a lot just knowing they were always around

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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 03:57 pm
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Married Jo



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tamalie wrote: On that track, I ask the following question sincerely. Has there ever been a mass shooting incident in the United States in which a person who was a potential victim, witness, and/or authority figure not from law enforcement or the military has had a firearm and was then able to shoot the attacker and end the situation? The Fort Hood shooting is disqualified from consideration in this conversation for reasons that ought to be obvious.
Texas church shooting last year..but it was pretty bad before someone on the street shot back..
Main thing is most of these things happen at "Gun Free Zones" like churches and schools for a reason...so nobody is available most of the time to shoot back..



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 04:45 pm
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If this ends up with an end to "gun free zones" and teachers carrying guns, you won't need to worry about building the wall, we'll build it for you.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 05:49 pm
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Infamous wrote: I think the point of armed guards would be deterrence. Knowing if potential location has armed guards or not will change the calculations of a shooter. That doesn't mean they won't pick another target but the point would be to deter SCHOOL shootings not mass shootings. Courts, airports, government buildings have armed guards so not really sure why schools would be any different. I understand there are kids but that's exactly why these spots are chosen...easy targets. When I went to high school we had police presence around our school all the time. It deterred a lot just knowing they were always around

next up grocery stores, Dr's offices, beaches, apartment buildings, churches, hospitals, sidewalks, everywhere 
out of over 7000 gun incidents this year 197 for defensive use. The whole 'we all need them to protect ourselves' argument doesnt hold water, look at Canada's stats, or the UK or any other country that has some kind of control . 



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 05:53 pm
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I don't think teachers or anyone at a school (lest a security guard/police, etc) should be allowed to carry in a school. That's just asking for trouble. I do like the idea of a gun that's secure being available for certain faculty/staff in case of an emergency though



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 06:24 pm
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srossi
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tamalie wrote: My wife is a teacher. I obviously know her well and know many of her colleagues. The suggestion that training these people to handle guns and then arming them is a good idea goes into the short list of the dumbest and most naïve things I have ever heard. It is astonishing that people think this would make a difference. It takes a certain type of individual to raise a gun and then fire it with the intent of incapacitating or killing a human being, even one who is armed and is in the process of badly wounding or killing children. Giving someone a gun and however many hours of initial training and then continuing education doesn't make them capable of using that gun in the event of a situation like this past week when tenths of seconds matter and the decision made has long term or permanent consequences. The whole scenario is preposterous.

Yeah, my wife is a teacher and the idea is laughable.  Not to mention the fact that teachers don't get paid enough to have to become personal security for your kids.  I've told my wife if there's ever a shooter to use the kids as a human shield and run.  Fuck that.  Getting into a fire fight and taking a bullet should not be in the job description for a teacher and the notion is absurd. 

Teachers already have a million things they're responsible for.  They do all of their lesson-planning at home, they grade tests at home, they shop for school supplies on their own time (and pay for 90% of them out of their own pockets).  Yeah, let's throw in licensing and weapons training too.  Teachers pay for ALL licensing fees themselves currently.  You think schools will pay for this?  And who's paying for all these guns when schools can't afford text books from this century?  My wife's school hasn't been able to afford to fix the printers for 2 years now.  She either has to print hand-outs in a store and pay for it herself or send it to me to print at work and then lug all the copies home.  Sometimes it's 100 pages.  At 5 cents a copy every week, do the math.  The schools don't care, the union doesn't even care.  You do it, period.  If there's a game or something she thinks would be helpful, she goes to a teacher supply store and she buys it.  She submits some receipts at the end of the year and gets like $10 back.  Literally.  That's pretty much the cap.  You have politicians who last stepped inside a school, and you know it was a private one, in 1965 making ridiculous recommendations without the slightest inkling of reality.      

I'm the biggest 2nd Amendment supporter on this board and anyone who thinks this is a real option is fucking retarded.  The mere suggestion of it should be an impeachable offense.  I'm not crazy about the mall security at schools having guns, these are the assholes too incompetent to even be cops and we know how well cops handle guns, but Jesus Christ at least suggest that instead of this laughable notion that all teachers are going to start packing.

Last edited on Mon Feb 19th, 2018 06:31 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:10 pm
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MadFrogVachon

 

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At the Las Vegas mass shooting a few months back, it was at a country music festival. You cant tell me there weren't any good old boys with guns in the crowd. One of the band members said a lot of the performers were armed but didn't dare draw their weapons because they didn't want to be mistaken for the actual shooters and gety killed by the police

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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:12 pm
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khawk
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MadFrogVachon wrote: At the Las Vegas mass shooting a few months back, it was at a country music festival. You cant tell me there weren't any good old boys with guns in the crowd. One of the band members said a lot of the performers were armed but didn't dare draw their weapons because they didn't want to be mistaken for the actual shooters and gety killed by the police
Could definitely see that happening at an event where there was an armed presence by default.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:15 pm
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So if a teacher is armed, my guess is the gunman would probably pop off the teacher, followed by a whack load of kids he or she was trying to protect.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:15 pm
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broke



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Or, the teacher winds up leaving a gun somewhere stupid and a kid ends up shooting some classmates while playing around with the thing.

Last edited on Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:16 pm by broke



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 07:42 pm
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srossi
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broke wrote: Or, the teacher winds up leaving a gun somewhere stupid and a kid ends up shooting some classmates while playing around with the thing.
I heard that this won't happen because the teacher will be responsible for locking the gun in a desk drawer.  Fun fact: none of the locks in my wife's desk work.  These also haven't been fixed for years.  If she takes away a toy or a phone and puts it in her desk, the kids take it back when she's not looking.  Reality is hard. 



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