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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 08:48 pm
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broke



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Locks on desk drawers are also the toughest, most unbreakable locks in existance when they work though! The level of sophistication behind them would make NASA blush.

(I picked a desk drawer lock at my work with a pair of paperclips last week)



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 09:06 pm
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srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: My wife is a teacher. I obviously know her well and know many of her colleagues. The suggestion that training these people to handle guns and then arming them is a good idea goes into the short list of the dumbest and most naïve things I have ever heard. It is astonishing that people think this would make a difference. It takes a certain type of individual to raise a gun and then fire it with the intent of incapacitating or killing a human being, even one who is armed and is in the process of badly wounding or killing children. Giving someone a gun and however many hours of initial training and then continuing education doesn't make them capable of using that gun in the event of a situation like this past week when tenths of seconds matter and the decision made has long term or permanent consequences. The whole scenario is preposterous.

Yeah, my wife is a teacher and the idea is laughable.  Not to mention the fact that teachers don't get paid enough to have to become personal security for your kids.  I've told my wife if there's ever a shooter to use the kids as a human shield and run.  Fuck that.  Getting into a fire fight and taking a bullet should not be in the job description for a teacher and the notion is absurd. 

Teachers already have a million things they're responsible for.  They do all of their lesson-planning at home, they grade tests at home, they shop for school supplies on their own time (and pay for 90% of them out of their own pockets).  Yeah, let's throw in licensing and weapons training too.  Teachers pay for ALL licensing fees themselves currently.  You think schools will pay for this?  And who's paying for all these guns when schools can't afford text books from this century?  My wife's school hasn't been able to afford to fix the printers for 2 years now.  She either has to print hand-outs in a store and pay for it herself or send it to me to print at work and then lug all the copies home.  Sometimes it's 100 pages.  At 5 cents a copy every week, do the math.  The schools don't care, the union doesn't even care.  You do it, period.  If there's a game or something she thinks would be helpful, she goes to a teacher supply store and she buys it.  She submits some receipts at the end of the year and gets like $10 back.  Literally.  That's pretty much the cap.  You have politicians who last stepped inside a school, and you know it was a private one, in 1965 making ridiculous recommendations without the slightest inkling of reality.      

I'm the biggest 2nd Amendment supporter on this board and anyone who thinks this is a real option is fucking retarded.  The mere suggestion of it should be an impeachable offense.  I'm not crazy about the mall security at schools having guns, these are the assholes too incompetent to even be cops and we know how well cops handle guns, but Jesus Christ at least suggest that instead of this laughable notion that all teachers are going to start packing.

Sounds like a terrible career 



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 Posted: Mon Feb 19th, 2018 09:17 pm
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khawk
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Being a teacher in Canada is an A-1 job. Good pay, good time off, superb benefits.

It's always been a premium type of job in Canada (at least in Ontario). Nothing like what I have heard that it's like for teachers in the US.

It's getting harder to get into it here now since so many go for that job, but those that excel and are willing to put a few years in working in Northern communities and reserves usually are able to get a regular teaching gig, just takes a bit of time.

Last edited on Mon Feb 19th, 2018 09:18 pm by khawk



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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 05:57 am
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So let’s step back. I’m a conservative believer in the 2nd Amendment who also does not get why people need what basically amounts to machine guns and who also thinks the 21st century gun fanatics do not resemble the gun rights advocates i remeber from the 70’s and 80’s. I.e. i think most are mentally deranged whackos, law enforcement/military wanabes types that cannot cut it and that are more of a danger to themselves and their surroundings than they are a help.

So with that out of the way, let’s discuss and forget the gun aspect.

I am going to assume other countries, especially Western nations, have basically the same cultural influences as the USA. They have violent movies and TV. They have violent video games, and they have the dreaded rap music.

What is causing this? Why are mostly white male teenagers, repeatedly going off and wanting to mass kill people? Are other countries seeing some form of violence in this group (though less the guns....knife attacks, bat attacks, vehicle attacks, bombings??). So why is this happening? Guns are not the cause. But i will absolutely concede that they make it easier.

We know the socio economic factors that drive young black males into gang life. Same with hispanics. We can identify cause, and we can do things that help or decide not to do things that help. But i think we can get pretty close to identifying major causations for those outcomes whether societally we address the problem or not. So what is the driver here? I have yet to see a compelling answer.

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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 06:55 am
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Papa Voo



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Quattro wrote: So let’s step back. I’m a conservative believer in the 2nd Amendment who also does not get why people need what basically amounts to machine guns and who also thinks the 21st century gun fanatics do not resemble the gun rights advocates i remeber from the 70’s and 80’s. I.e. i think most are mentally deranged whackos, law enforcement/military wanabes types that cannot cut it and that are more of a danger to themselves and their surroundings than they are a help.

So with that out of the way, let’s discuss and forget the gun aspect.

I am going to assume other countries, especially Western nations, have basically the same cultural influences as the USA. They have violent movies and TV. They have violent video games, and they have the dreaded rap music.

What is causing this? Why are mostly white male teenagers, repeatedly going off and wanting to mass kill people? Are other countries seeing some form of violence in this group (though less the guns....knife attacks, bat attacks, vehicle attacks, bombings??). So why is this happening? Guns are not the cause. But i will absolutely concede that they make it easier.

We know the socio economic factors that drive young black males into gang life. Same with hispanics. We can identify cause, and we can do things that help or decide not to do things that help. But i think we can get pretty close to identifying major causations for those outcomes whether societally we address the problem or not. So what is the driver here? I have yet to see a compelling answer.

Great post!  

You are where I am at on this issue.   I am somewhat baffled by it.

I will say that now I look at these current attacks as being more for attention and probably initiated with the thoughts of copying other attacks as a means to get attention.  I would expect to see more in malls or other heavy foot traffic areas, but the repeated attacks on schools seems to indicate a pattern of people trying to mimic past actions for the attention.   I think the original ones were more about lashing out against being bullied and lack of social acceptance. 
 
It is definitely not an issue brought on because of guns.  That makes no sense.  The weapons of today I believe are deadlier and can cause a lot of damage in a short amount of time, but these weapons are not the underlying reason for the attacks.  The issue with the guns that needs to be reviewed is the access to the guns.  

There are probably several dynamics at work here....desensitization to violence and death, socioeconomic factors, behavioral/psychological issues, etc.  

But, why aren’t we seeing this in other places.   It is odd.  




Last edited on Tue Feb 20th, 2018 04:19 pm by Papa Voo

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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 09:53 am
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tamalie
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Married Jo wrote: tamalie wrote: On that track, I ask the following question sincerely. Has there ever been a mass shooting incident in the United States in which a person who was a potential victim, witness, and/or authority figure not from law enforcement or the military has had a firearm and was then able to shoot the attacker and end the situation? The Fort Hood shooting is disqualified from consideration in this conversation for reasons that ought to be obvious.
Texas church shooting last year..but it was pretty bad before someone on the street shot back..
Main thing is most of these things happen at "Gun Free Zones" like churches and schools for a reason...so nobody is available most of the time to shoot back..

The gun free zone thing has nothing to do with whether or not a particular a school has staff with guns. Many schools actually have armed security or armed police present on a frequent to occasional as needed basis if not regularly. The point of a gun free zone is to make it easier to prosecute and convict a person who brings a gun into a school as well as to remove a student who brings a gun into a school on a long term to permanent basis. It's not going to stop the maniac who brings in a gun to shoot dozens of people, but most guns at schools incidents never involve the gun actually being fired or used in a threatening manner.

Last edited on Tue Feb 20th, 2018 09:56 am by tamalie

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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 05:44 pm
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Papa Voo wrote: Quattro wrote: So let’s step back. I’m a conservative believer in the 2nd Amendment who also does not get why people need what basically amounts to machine guns and who also thinks the 21st century gun fanatics do not resemble the gun rights advocates i remeber from the 70’s and 80’s. I.e. i think most are mentally deranged whackos, law enforcement/military wanabes types that cannot cut it and that are more of a danger to themselves and their surroundings than they are a help.

So with that out of the way, let’s discuss and forget the gun aspect.

I am going to assume other countries, especially Western nations, have basically the same cultural influences as the USA. They have violent movies and TV. They have violent video games, and they have the dreaded rap music.

What is causing this? Why are mostly white male teenagers, repeatedly going off and wanting to mass kill people? Are other countries seeing some form of violence in this group (though less the guns....knife attacks, bat attacks, vehicle attacks, bombings??). So why is this happening? Guns are not the cause. But i will absolutely concede that they make it easier.

We know the socio economic factors that drive young black males into gang life. Same with hispanics. We can identify cause, and we can do things that help or decide not to do things that help. But i think we can get pretty close to identifying major causations for those outcomes whether societally we address the problem or not. So what is the driver here? I have yet to see a compelling answer.

Great post!  

You are where I am at on this issue.   I am somewhat baffled by it.

I will say that now I look at these current attacks as being more for attention and probably initiated with the thoughts of copying other attacks as a means to get attention.  I would expect to see more in malls or other heavy foot traffic areas, but the repeated attacks on schools seems to indicate a pattern of people trying to mimic past actions for the attention.   I think the original ones were more about lashing out against being bullied and lack of social acceptance. 
 
It is definitely not an issue brought on because of guns.  That makes no sense.  The weapons of today I believe are deadlier and can cause a lot of damage in a short amount of time, but these weapons are not the underlying reason for the attacks.  The issue with the guns that needs to be reviewed is the access to the guns.  

There are probably several dynamics at work here....desensitization to violence and death, socioeconomic factors, behavioral/psychological issues, etc.  

But, why aren’t we seeing this in other places.   It is odd.  





it's not odd, its guns , you can look high and low for reasons why people shoot each other, you can be 'baffled' and it can make no 'common sense' but without guns people don't shoot each other , at least not all the time and in mass shootings bi monthly , the problem is guns , the solution is less guns



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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 07:11 pm
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srossi
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carlton st wrote: Papa Voo wrote: Quattro wrote: So let’s step back. I’m a conservative believer in the 2nd Amendment who also does not get why people need what basically amounts to machine guns and who also thinks the 21st century gun fanatics do not resemble the gun rights advocates i remeber from the 70’s and 80’s. I.e. i think most are mentally deranged whackos, law enforcement/military wanabes types that cannot cut it and that are more of a danger to themselves and their surroundings than they are a help.

So with that out of the way, let’s discuss and forget the gun aspect.

I am going to assume other countries, especially Western nations, have basically the same cultural influences as the USA. They have violent movies and TV. They have violent video games, and they have the dreaded rap music.

What is causing this? Why are mostly white male teenagers, repeatedly going off and wanting to mass kill people? Are other countries seeing some form of violence in this group (though less the guns....knife attacks, bat attacks, vehicle attacks, bombings??). So why is this happening? Guns are not the cause. But i will absolutely concede that they make it easier.

We know the socio economic factors that drive young black males into gang life. Same with hispanics. We can identify cause, and we can do things that help or decide not to do things that help. But i think we can get pretty close to identifying major causations for those outcomes whether societally we address the problem or not. So what is the driver here? I have yet to see a compelling answer.

Great post!  

You are where I am at on this issue.   I am somewhat baffled by it.

I will say that now I look at these current attacks as being more for attention and probably initiated with the thoughts of copying other attacks as a means to get attention.  I would expect to see more in malls or other heavy foot traffic areas, but the repeated attacks on schools seems to indicate a pattern of people trying to mimic past actions for the attention.   I think the original ones were more about lashing out against being bullied and lack of social acceptance. 
 
It is definitely not an issue brought on because of guns.  That makes no sense.  The weapons of today I believe are deadlier and can cause a lot of damage in a short amount of time, but these weapons are not the underlying reason for the attacks.  The issue with the guns that needs to be reviewed is the access to the guns.  

There are probably several dynamics at work here....desensitization to violence and death, socioeconomic factors, behavioral/psychological issues, etc.  

But, why aren’t we seeing this in other places.   It is odd.  





it's not odd, its guns , you can look high and low for reasons why people shoot each other, you can be 'baffled' and it can make no 'common sense' but without guns people don't shoot each other , at least not all the time and in mass shootings bi monthly , the problem is guns , the solution is less guns

I'm glad you got that figured out.  Now let's create peace in the Middle East in a few sentence fragments too.

Last edited on Tue Feb 20th, 2018 07:11 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 07:18 pm
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KGB

 

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The problem is Muslims. The solution is fewer Muslims.


How'd I do, srossi??



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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 07:45 pm
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srossi
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KGB wrote: The problem is Muslims. The solution is fewer Muslims.


How'd I do, srossi??

About as good as Carlton St, but more grammatically correct.

Last edited on Tue Feb 20th, 2018 07:45 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2018 08:48 pm
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KGB

 

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Great! I'm going to celebrate by buying a gun.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2018 06:55 pm
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So if guns are the problem, how do we fix the problem? Are there any good ideas other than some form of longer waiting period and some sort of psychological testing/checking?



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 Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2018 07:12 pm
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wittman2 wrote: So if guns are the problem, how do we fix the problem? Are there any good ideas other than some form of longer waiting period and some sort of psychological testing/checking?

Until the bribes are taken out of politics, very little will change. I fully expect Trump to announce some new law that will ban a very small amount of gun accessories, and this will shut enough people up until the next 10 shootings. The lawmakers are all in the pocket of the gun manufacturers, so nothing of any substance will happen until that is fixed.

As for real solutions? People should have a good reason to have a gun, and that reason should be picked from a very short list. Make guns, and bullets, very difficult to buy. No one living in a city needs a gun in their house. Have a gun amnesty. These have happened in other countries and are successful. People hand in their guns, licensed or not, and they are compensated. You're just gonna have to deal with the fact that there will be some criminals with guns, but there will be less every year. And I guarantee there will be less people shot. Even the number of accidental gun deaths in the US is over 500 per year, way more than the number of deliberate deaths by shooting in other countries.

And if you are wondering where the money for this comes from, legalize weed.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2018 09:37 pm
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tamalie
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Gun amnesties and buy back programs have occurred and still occur in the United States. In fact, I'd bet that the first one ever happened here. I don't know of any having any measurable impact on gun violence, but how such a thing would be measured seems difficult to determine. Guns getting turned in does not necessarily increase or decrease the likelihood of existing guns in the general public getting used.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2018 09:57 pm
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srossi
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tamalie wrote: Gun amnesties and buy back programs have occurred and still occur in the United States. In fact, I'd bet that the first one ever happened here. I don't know of any having any measurable impact on gun violence, but how such a thing would be measured seems difficult to determine. Guns getting turned in does not necessarily increase or decrease the likelihood of existing guns in the general public getting used.
Anyone turning in a gun voluntarily was not the person who was going to use it to murder someone.



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