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 Posted: Wed Jun 27th, 2018 02:13 pm
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Ultimark



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This one I agree with. I never understood how a union could charge dues to people not in the union.  I am not anti-union but that never made any sense to me.  FDR laughed at the idea of public unions and called them a conflict of interest.  FDR.

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 Posted: Wed Jun 27th, 2018 02:50 pm
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DaNkinator



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Same. I see the pros and cons in unions, but forcing someone to pay dues to basically have a job has always been a bad policy.
However, something I'm unclear on is how this decision could weaken unions by permitting non-union members to free ride on the union’s resources.

Last edited on Wed Jun 27th, 2018 02:54 pm by DaNkinator

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 Posted: Wed Jun 27th, 2018 03:13 pm
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srossi
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Good. This Supreme Court is really not bad at all. I haven't agreed with all their decisions, but they're very fair and take the Constitution seriously instead of just voting along party lines. Gorsuch on the right and Sotomayor on the left have both surprised me at times.  It's the only branch of the government that's remotely working correctly over the past 15 years or so.

Last edited on Wed Jun 27th, 2018 03:14 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 05:01 am
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The Ultimate Sin
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DaNkinator wrote: Same. I see the pros and cons in unions, but forcing someone to pay dues to basically have a job has always been a bad policy.
However, something I'm unclear on is how this decision could weaken unions by permitting non-union members to free ride on the union’s resources.


I can't speak for all unions, just the one I'm in, but if you get all the benefits but don't have to pay for them, then everyone who pays has to pay extra.
10 people divide the resources but only 5 pay for the stuff.  If you are working with half the resources you normally have clearly you are weaker.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 01:30 pm
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srossi
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My wife is a teacher and shared a class last year with a Bernie liberal who wants free healthcare and free education and free everything else for everyone.  This is what she wrote on Facebook after this decision in an effort to get people not to voluntarily stop paying dues to her union:

"Nothing is free. If you are contemplating free riding, or need help educating somebody who thinks it’s a good idea, please talk to me for some information about why free riding will ultimately hurt you financially."

You can't make this stuff up and you can't make people see their hypocrisy.  I was tempted, but for my wife's sake I bit my tongue and did not hit the enter button with a reply.

Last edited on Fri Jun 29th, 2018 01:30 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 02:13 pm
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Franchise
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srossi wrote: My wife is a teacher and shared a class last year with a Bernie liberal who wants free healthcare and free education and free everything else for everyone.  This is what she wrote on Facebook after this decision in an effort to get people not to voluntarily stop paying dues to her union:

"Nothing is free. If you are contemplating free riding, or need help educating somebody who thinks it’s a good idea, please talk to me for some information about why free riding will ultimately hurt you financially."

You can't make this stuff up and you can't make people see their hypocrisy.  I was tempted, but for my wife's sake I bit my tongue and did not hit the enter button with a reply.


I don’t think it’s uncommon for people to want things or agree with ideas until those things or ideas negatively affect them. 

If everything is free what is it’s real value? Who should pay to keep those things free? 




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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 02:17 pm
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srossi
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Franchise wrote: srossi wrote: My wife is a teacher and shared a class last year with a Bernie liberal who wants free healthcare and free education and free everything else for everyone.  This is what she wrote on Facebook after this decision in an effort to get people not to voluntarily stop paying dues to her union:

"Nothing is free. If you are contemplating free riding, or need help educating somebody who thinks it’s a good idea, please talk to me for some information about why free riding will ultimately hurt you financially."

You can't make this stuff up and you can't make people see their hypocrisy.  I was tempted, but for my wife's sake I bit my tongue and did not hit the enter button with a reply.


I don’t think it’s uncommon for people to want things or agree with ideas until those things or ideas negatively affect them. 

If everything is free what is it’s real value? Who should pay to keep those things free? 



Even without going into the particulars of why her statement is stupid, once you acknowledge "there's no such thing as a free ride", how can you possibly not understand that free healthcare and education is actually quite expensive for taxpayers and will tank our economy.  You're already agreeing to the concept.  You have to be incredibly obtuse not to make the connection.  But people are that obtuse.

Last edited on Fri Jun 29th, 2018 02:17 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 02:25 pm
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Franchise
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It’s expensive and it dilutes it’s worth (college) and effectiveness (healthcare).



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 02:29 pm
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srossi
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Franchise wrote: It’s expensive and it dilutes it’s worth (college) and effectiveness (healthcare).
I've always said if you make college free, employers are just going to insist that you have a Masters for any decent job.  That's already happening with the influx of BAs to the job market over the past 25 years.  So you essentially say, "We're extending high school another 4 years, and then you still have to pay for MORE schooling to get a decent job, so just keep living with your parents until you're 32 instead of 27."  It's mind-numbingly dumb.  If everyone has a degree, NO ONE has a degree.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 02:39 pm
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Franchise
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Couldn’t agree more



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 04:12 pm
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Ultimark



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The problem is that many of our non-college jobs that paid well were farmed out to other countries. Like the people who make Trump's ties, briefcases and so on. We did make bad trade deals. I don't see how people can think otherwise. Even though Trump is a laughable hypocrite on the issue, re-examining all these deals is the right thing to do. Canada is the only one where his stance makes no sense. That is just Trump being nuts.

So the good paying jobs are gone and now even phone center people need college degrees but a lot of their jobs are being outsourced as well. While the UE is down, that has a lot to do with how it is counted. The actual labor participation rate is hardly budging at all.

We have a large firm near where I live who is now insourcing tech people from India and paying them 60% of what they paid Americans. These are very good jobs, not the "type of jobs Americans don't want to do".

Honestly, I think the next gen will all have to have graduate degrees to be employable.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 04:38 pm
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Franchise
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Their are plenty of good paying jobs out their people just need to be willing to work.

Commercial Truck driver and diesel mechanic jobs are everywhere. I’m not going to get into salaries because they can be all over the place depending on exact skills, qualifications and location but these can be lucrative careers.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 10:36 pm
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Papa Voo



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Ultimark wrote: The problem is that many of our non-college jobs that paid well were farmed out to other countries. Like the people who make Trump's ties, briefcases and so on. We did make bad trade deals. I don't see how people can think otherwise. Even though Trump is a laughable hypocrite on the issue, re-examining all these deals is the right thing to do. Canada is the only one where his stance makes no sense. That is just Trump being nuts.

So the good paying jobs are gone and now even phone center people need college degrees but a lot of their jobs are being outsourced as well. While the UE is down, that has a lot to do with how it is counted. The actual labor participation rate is hardly budging at all.

We have a large firm near where I live who is now insourcing tech people from India and paying them 60% of what they paid Americans. These are very good jobs, not the "type of jobs Americans don't want to do".

Honestly, I think the next gen will all have to have graduate degrees to be employable.

Good post.




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 Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2018 10:52 pm
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Papa Voo



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So much to say on this one, but it is not worth the time. I work closely with public sector union employees on the county, state and federal levels. A lot of things being very generalized in this thread.

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 Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2018 01:20 am
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Principal_Raditch



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Shit, only reason I"m even in this country is because according to some of the local cons, " I stole a Murican's job" There was a big move in the late 90's where a ton of Canadian Healthcare workers came down here based on shortages because there wasn't enough ready workers locally. Now years later, you get people getting mad thinking we took away jobs from someone.

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