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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2018 04:51 pm
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Ultimark



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I am old enough to remember when the GOP (in particular what is now called the Freedom Caucus) went bat shit crazy because Obama produced a budget that had a deficit of $1.1 T during a deep recession when the economy needed to be stimulated.  His last budget was around $600B in deficit.  Still too high imo but much less than in the beginning.
Now, the GOP has produced a budget that Trump signed that has around $961B in deficit spending.  What is worse is that we are in a good economy right now. Now the best in history but solid.   Should that change, our flexibility is much less than before.  How can the GOP claim to be fiscally conservative now?  The tax cuts need to be paid for eventually.  Why isn't the Freedom Caucus losing their minds now?  I have actually seen some of their members say that deficit spending is good. 
The only way they can make up the deficit is to hit SS and Medicare.  There is nothing else, outside of defense spending that is significant enough to impact it.  I want to know from those hear who are definitely on that side how they can square this.  How can you be a fiscal conservative and spend like this?

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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2018 10:38 pm
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Ultimark



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The people who really love Trump do not want to touch this question. I get it. Their budget goes against a lot of what they claim to be - small gov and so forth. The GOP (and Dems) are full of shit. It is a shell game in the end.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 3rd, 2018 11:51 pm
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freebirdsforever2001
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Ultimark wrote: The people who really love Trump do not want to touch this question. I get it. Their budget goes against a lot of what they claim to be - small gov and so forth. The GOP (and Dems) are full of shit. It is a shell game in the end.
Agreed and that's why the party system needs to go and I'm an independent. 



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 Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2018 07:30 pm
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Arnold_OldSchool

 

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Ultimark wrote: The people who really love Trump do not want to touch this question. I get it. Their budget goes against a lot of what they claim to be - small gov and so forth. The GOP (and Dems) are full of shit. It is a shell game in the end.
My boss is ultra right wing. She says Trump isn't worried about the debt because he is going to reset it anyway. 
https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/global-reset-sooner-than-later-president-trump-just-said-to-get-ready-for-big-financial-problems/
She also introduced me to the Qnon stuff in January and remains steadfast in her belief that Trump is prepping to take down the pedo rings and crime laden Democrats. She told me for the past 2 weeks that the Dems are trying to block Kavanaugh because once he's in then "25,000" sealed indictments will be unleashed and that will lead to mass arrests. 

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 08:48 am
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Kriss



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Arnold_OldSchool wrote: Ultimark wrote: The people who really love Trump do not want to touch this question. I get it. Their budget goes against a lot of what they claim to be - small gov and so forth. The GOP (and Dems) are full of shit. It is a shell game in the end.
My boss is ultra right wing. She says Trump isn't worried about the debt because he is going to reset it anyway. 
https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/global-reset-sooner-than-later-president-trump-just-said-to-get-ready-for-big-financial-problems/
She also introduced me to the Qnon stuff in January and remains steadfast in her belief that Trump is prepping to take down the pedo rings and crime laden Democrats. She told me for the past 2 weeks that the Dems are trying to block Kavanaugh because once he's in then "25,000" sealed indictments will be unleashed and that will lead to mass arrests. 


She is clearly insane and you need to stop listening to her. We are all a little more stupid by just reading your brief post.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 12:57 pm
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Angelic Assassin



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Can't Trump just declare bankruptcy on behalf of the US and wipe the debt out that way.
Or he can blame NAFTA and CA NA DA for the deficit.
Also according to him he's a self made multimillionaire so he should be able to right the ship. Phony POS.
Unbelievable that he's still a better choice for you Muricans than the dyke would have been.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 05:12 pm
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Superstar
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What does this “deficit” mean, in reality? What I mean is, deficit of what? Since the Gold Standard was eliminated about 50 years ago, what has our money been valued against? I’m being serious because I honestly don’t know. Literally they can keep printing money as long as they want to, and as long as people believe in the system, it works. The minute people think our money is shit, it’s shit.

I remember it was a huge deal that Bill Clinton worked us out of deficit, and George Bush put us right back in after 9/11. And even then, did any of it really matter? When Clinton left office, the job market sucked and nobody was spending money. After 9/11 when we all decided it was not only safe to travel, but it would show the terrorists that we weren’t afraid of them, people spent money and the job market was solid. So I don’t fully understand “how” big of a deal the deficit is. And I’m not going to argue for or against it - just want to know why it’s such a hot button item right now.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 10:01 pm
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Ultimark



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If Trump resets the debt that means we have defaulted on he debt.  The reality of that would be the following:
1.  Everyone who owns bonds even in mutual funds would take a massive loss. 
2.  Big buyers of treasuries would no longer purchase them at today’s level become they would represent a bad risk.  
3.  The average mortgage rate would explode since most mortgage debt is ultimately tied to gov debt.  Think 10 to 12% mortgage rates and a complete devaluation of the US currency which would cause runaway inflation.   Banks would pay interest well less than that.
4.  It would be a complete disaster.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 10:03 pm
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Ultimark



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I won’t go into the in depth explanation.  Google Argentina and Greece for what what massive deficits lead to and how they affect the economy.
BTW - Trump is NOT going to do any of the bullshit these nut jobs are claiming. 

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 10:07 pm
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Ultimark



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A deficit isn’t necessarily a bad thing BTW.  In certain times a deficit should be large.  This isn’t one of those times and should the economy falter, our flexibility is much less. For instance in 06, the deficit was 250 to 300B.  The economy tanked and the deficit by 09 was 1.1T.  Then it came back to $600B.  Now it is going up again and because of SS and Medicare will go up a lot more.   Also the tax cut is an obvious negative for this. 

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 10:48 pm
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Superstar
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Everything you just said is correct, but you didn’t answer the only real question I had. What is the deficit against? When our currency was on the gold standard, the deficit was against the gold reserves. They ended that, and if I’m not mistaken, it helped lead into the first real heavy inflation and the first gas shortage (whether related or not, it was around the same time). So now we have a deficit and people are worried, but really the only thing I can think of worrying about is if Trump resets everything and cancels the Government debts. That would turn our $100 bill into a $10 bill overnight.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 11:01 pm
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Ultimark



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It is against nothing but the full faith and credit of the United States to repay the borrowers.

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 11:03 pm
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Ultimark



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BTW -absolutely correct in that a 100 hundred dollar bill would be turned into a 10 ten dollar bill.  It won’t happen because he can’t do hat alone. 

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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 11:05 pm
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Superstar
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That’s what I thought. Our money is only worth something as long as people believe in it. I guess in that way, we are very fortunate that so many other parts of the world are more fucked up than we are.

If Trump ever did anything to destroy our economy, he wouldn’t live through the night because somebody within his own circle would kill him before any one of the public could.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 6th, 2018 11:35 pm
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Blazer



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Did Clinton really eliminate the deficit? Haven’t we been in the red as a nation since shortly after WW2?



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