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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 06:56 am
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Franchise
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Why is this a thing? I can’t understand why anyone would be pushing for this. 



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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 08:00 am
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kargol



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You've already got it. GWB socialized bank losses so that everyone had a share.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 11:19 am
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nyhack56

 

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Seriously, we bail out banks and the auto companies costing billions of dollars. Pharma gets grants from the government to develop a new drug and turns around and extorts profits. We're gonna worry about socialism now?

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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 11:47 am
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Kriss
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Your police departments, fire departments, the armed forces and the FBI. Your roads and bridges. All socialist.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 12:17 pm
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KGB

 

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Kriss wrote: Your police departments, fire departments, the armed forces and the FBI. Your roads and bridges. All socialist.
That's nonsense.  There's nothing inherently socialist about the government organizing, funding, and controlling certain sectors of the economy that are necessary to the functioning of a nation.  Some of the above could conceivably be contracted out to private entities but the headaches involved and the reduced accountability to the people makes that a tough sell.  Although, we might see more inept cops fired if they were privatized, so perhaps it's worth a crack?



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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 12:35 pm
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gwlee7



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I thought the very definition of socialism was when the government organized, funded, and controlled sectors of the economy.

Conservatives just get pissed when they (or their causes) aren’t the ones being funded. That’s it. That’s what all the fuss is about.



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I just think it's amazing that Trump is really on Twitter all day, personally writing this shit. He's about 3 beers away from joining S&W and getting into a flame war with Ports.----srossi
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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 12:53 pm
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Kriss
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KGB wrote: Kriss wrote: Your police departments, fire departments, the armed forces and the FBI. Your roads and bridges. All socialist.
That's nonsense.  There's nothing inherently socialist about the government organizing, funding, and controlling certain sectors of the economy that are necessary to the functioning of a nation.  Some of the above could conceivably be contracted out to private entities but the headaches involved and the reduced accountability to the people makes that a tough sell.  Although, we might see more inept cops fired if they were privatized, so perhaps it's worth a crack?


Why not health and education?

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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 01:30 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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Tarriff's also set up to artificially create barriers to the free market and manipulate pricing

Last edited on Wed Jul 17th, 2019 01:32 pm by Principal_Raditch

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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 01:30 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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Don't forget how the Gov't also subsidizes farmers. Add in Medicare and Medicaid. Don't forget TIFFs so that private business get property tax abatements for buiding. Oh add in Eminent Domain now extending to private corporations, so that the gov't can steal your land and give it to a for profit entity.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 01:54 pm
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martini
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Because we are idiots and don't learn from the mistakes of others.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 02:02 pm
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srossi

 

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Because even though, thanks to capitalism, everyone (rich and poor alike) live in vastly superior conditions than even 30 years ago, across the globe, even in the poorest countries, people only compare themselves to others and wonder why they aren't as rich as their neighbor.  In the absence of that possibility, they want to take the other guy down.  A poor person today lives like a king by every conceivable metric compared to years ago, but that's not good enough because there will always be comparative haves and have-nots.  So they want to take the whole system down on the off-chance that this one time socialism will finally work and we won't wind up like Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, and every other country that has tried it.  The selfishness and stupidity is astounding.  The fact that our government has unwisely allowed some socialist elements is hardly a reason to go all in on something you know has never worked.  And "democratic socialism" is putting lipstick on a pig. 

Last edited on Wed Jul 17th, 2019 02:04 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 02:40 pm
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Kriss
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You could buy a house in the 60s or 70s for about 3.5x the average wage, and a man could support a family with a simple job that he wasn't at constant risk of losing. Today you need 8.5x the combined wage of two people to buy a house. The American Dream is over, and many young people aren't supporting the capitalist status quo any more.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 17th, 2019 03:02 pm
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srossi

 

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Kriss wrote: You could buy a house in the 60s or 70s for about 3.5x the average wage, and a man could support a family with a simple job that he wasn't at constant risk of losing. Today you need 8.5x the combined wage of two people to buy a house. The American Dream is over, and many young people aren't supporting the capitalist status quo any more.
The 3 main problems in runaway costs right now are housing, health care, and college, all caused by government interference in the first place.  Health care is the hardest to fix because of the stakes involved.  Housing wouldn't be that difficult, after a few pain points, if you eliminate a lot of zoning restrictions. 

College I could literally fix in 2 years by ending 100% of college loan programs and strongly advising against anyone taking out personal loans.  There would be about 1,000 rich kids left across every college campus in the country and within 2 years they'd all either be out of business or they'd have to slash tuitions back to affordable rates for the middle class.  Most would choose the latter and be very profitable after cutting back on silly programs and superfluous staff.  Simple as that.  And unlike health care, no one's life is on the line.  An 18-year old would just have to bite the bullet and delay schooling until 20 to basically solve the education problem for generations to come.  Hardly a huge sacrifice to avoid a lifetime of student debt.  There's never been anything easier to fix, and yet socialists want the opposite "solution" to ensure that costs continue to rage more out of control than ever.  They don't get that as long as government is willing to pay for schooling, regular people will never be able to afford it.  Even when people default on their student loans, the schools already got paid.  There's no incentive to keep costs down.  And thus, we're back to the problem with health care...      

Last edited on Wed Jul 17th, 2019 03:07 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Thu Jul 18th, 2019 07:29 am
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kargol



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We have universal healthcare in the UK. There is also a private healthcare sector.

Yet somehow healthcare is generally far more expensive in the US where a market ought to be driving prices down.

The problem is that it is not a genuinely free market. But nearly nothing is a genuinely free market. There are always minimum standards and that is a government necessity. Because the free market doesn't have the time to work before everything goes wrong. Compare thalidomide.



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 Posted: Fri Jul 19th, 2019 08:20 pm
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nyhack56

 

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Kriss wrote: KGB wrote: Kriss wrote: Your police departments, fire departments, the armed forces and the FBI. Your roads and bridges. All socialist.
That's nonsense.  There's nothing inherently socialist about the government organizing, funding, and controlling certain sectors of the economy that are necessary to the functioning of a nation.  Some of the above could conceivably be contracted out to private entities but the headaches involved and the reduced accountability to the people makes that a tough sell.  Although, we might see more inept cops fired if they were privatized, so perhaps it's worth a crack?


Why not health and education?
Because there's just too much profit to be exploited from the vulnerabilities presented there.

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