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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 02:21 pm
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It took about 90 minutes for the president of CNN to contact the governor of Minnesota, who orchestrated The crew's release. The state patrol issued a statement saying the release happened after seeing their press credentials, but CNN as already labeled that statement as inaccurate, as Omar Jimenez, the journalist, was showing his credentials live on the air.

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 02:28 pm
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One Fan Gang wrote: It took about 90 minutes for the president of CNN to contact the governor of Minnesota, who orchestrated The crew's release. The state patrol issued a statement saying the release happened after seeing their press credentials, but CNN as already labeled that statement as inaccurate, as Omar Jimenez, the journalist, was showing his credentials live on the air.
So the cops involved have been arrested for kidnapping and their terminations are imminent, right? 

People still actually say stuff like, "Why would the cops lie?  Why would they want the extra paperwork?  Why would they want to go through the trouble of harassing someone doing absolutely nothing wrong?"  And then you see them doing all of the above and more ON LIVE TV WITH A CAMERA POINTED AT THEIR FACE WHEN THEY KNOW THEY ARE BEING SEEN BY MILLIONS.  What chance does anyone have of not being summarily executed by these people when they do this kind of thing?  They lie and kill for the sake of lying and killing.  Even most sociopaths have motives stronger than that.

Last edited on Fri May 29th, 2020 02:31 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 02:39 pm
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Back on the air reporting on his arrest. So ridiculously professional and so far and above how any normal person would react. Can you imagine if a cop had been treated like this? There would thousands of bodies piled up.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/29/omar-jimenez-released-minnesota-protests-newday-vpx.cnn



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 03:08 pm
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The crazies are out already saying this was staged by evil CNN. I'd love to know how that worked exactly. Are they in cahoots with the cops?



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 04:13 pm
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KGB wrote: tamalie wrote: However, the rioting and looting beyond that particular location is mainly opportunists of various types taking advantage of this guy's death to push their own agendas.

There were poor people cleaning out Target and other stores to get their hands on consumer goods they either couldn't afford or just didn't want to pay for.
 
Hmm, what "types" would that be?  In fact, it would be more honest to say "type".   And let's be honest, anyone cleaning out a Target simply didn't want to pay for what they were taking.  It has nothing to do with not being able to afford anything. 
 
I'm not shy about my disgust at what's become of law enforcement in this country, and I hope the pigs that killed this man are served justice, but pretending for the last 50 years that communities of joggers aren't a big problem hasn't done any of us a favor. 


I can see where this is going, so I'll put it this way. It's a low income neighborhood, resided in mostly but not exclusively by persons of color, and from the footage taken by reputable reporters, both outside that Target and actually inside the store as well, there weren't many middle class people who drove in from the burbs to take advantage of the situation to grab some TVs, smartphones, and other pricy or desirable stuff. By definition anyone stealing doesn't want to pay for the item, regardless of their wealth and background. However, the protesting turning to rioting turning to looting in the area around that shopping center was absolutely taken advantage of by persons seizing the opportunity to get stuff they could not otherwise afford as opposed to persons who could have afforded the stuff but just didn't want to pay, though I won't discount the presence and participation of the latter group entirely.

Last edited on Fri May 29th, 2020 04:35 pm by tamalie

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 04:23 pm
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tamalie
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The Minnesota State Police in the Twin Cities area are effectively a highway patrol, giving tickets, getting involved with accidents, and so on. There are instances when they get involved with other aspects of law enforcement and they often act as backup to small town/county police and sheriff's departments. However, riot control isn't their forte. The same goes for the National Guard, which has had 500 soldiers called up and deployed. This isn't their primary function. The result was out of their depth state troopers going way too far and arresting a CNN crew for no logical reason. I suspect there will be some sort of incident with the media or suspected rioters and looters this weekend and either state troopers or National Guardsmen because there will be guys doing jobs they're not really trained for and, more likely in the case of the soldiers, guys from rural areas with limited to no interaction with minorities will do something dumb and uncalled for when confronted with the citizens of the areas they're policing.

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 04:57 pm
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tamalie wrote: KGB wrote: tamalie wrote: However, the rioting and looting beyond that particular location is mainly opportunists of various types taking advantage of this guy's death to push their own agendas.

There were poor people cleaning out Target and other stores to get their hands on consumer goods they either couldn't afford or just didn't want to pay for.
 
Hmm, what "types" would that be?  In fact, it would be more honest to say "type".   And let's be honest, anyone cleaning out a Target simply didn't want to pay for what they were taking.  It has nothing to do with not being able to afford anything. 
 
I'm not shy about my disgust at what's become of law enforcement in this country, and I hope the pigs that killed this man are served justice, but pretending for the last 50 years that communities of joggers aren't a big problem hasn't done any of us a favor. 


I can see where this is going, so I'll put it this way. It's a low income neighborhood, resided in mostly but not exclusively by persons of color, and from the footage taken by reputable reporters, both outside that Target and actually inside the store as well, there weren't many middle class people who drove in from the burbs to take advantage of the situation to grab some TVs, smartphones, and other pricy or desirable stuff. By definition anyone stealing doesn't want to pay for the item, regardless of their wealth and background. However, the protesting turning to rioting turning to looting in the area around that shopping center was absolutely taken advantage of by persons seizing the opportunity to get stuff they could not otherwise afford as opposed to persons who could have afforded the stuff but just didn't want to pay, though I won't discount the presence and participation of the latter group entirely.

When you say, "middle class" people didn't drive in from the 'burbs to loot and steal, you really mean "white" people.  There's no getting around that fact.  Believe me, for years and I years I also engaged in that canard and like a good conservative I boiled everything down to the marketplace, reducing humans to economic beings.  I just can't keep lying to myself anymore.  We've had generations of whites and blacks trying to make it work, trying to promote the "vibrant" mix of cultures, and it hasn't worked.  It's time to conclude that it will never work.  Anecdotally, yes, it can happen, but in the macro sense we're not the same people.  I don't think much can be done to remedy this in the short term, but at the very least we've got to be honest about our differences.  A good start would be to completely restore freedom of association.  Let people self-segregate and learn from the results. 



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 04:57 pm
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For those that think this doesn't actually happen, St. Paul police officer Jacob "Jake" Peterson has been identified as a "rioter" who was breaking windows and inciting violence on 3 different occasions (including at Target) before police then swooped in. He has been positively identified in several videos, and his ex-fiance was contacted and confirmed his identity and claimed she recognized his gloves and gas mask (which she says is actually her gas mask that he stole) in a series of text messages. The police have of course denied this is him.

Last edited on Fri May 29th, 2020 05:00 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:05 pm
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tamalie wrote: The result was out of their depth state troopers going way too far and arresting a CNN crew for no logical reason.And possibly having had to deal with things way beyond their capabilities for the previous few hours.  At some point all logical thinking goes out of the window and groupthink takes over.  Especially if a subordinate is frightened to challenge a commanding officer.
Doesn't speak well of training or deployment by top brass though. 



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:11 pm
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kargol wrote: tamalie wrote: The result was out of their depth state troopers going way too far and arresting a CNN crew for no logical reason.And possibly having had to deal with things way beyond their capabilities for the previous few hours.  At some point all logical thinking goes out of the window and groupthink takes over.  Especially if a subordinate is frightened to challenge a commanding officer.
Doesn't speak well of training or deployment by top brass though. 

The CNN reporter said that the arresting officers made no apologies and could offer no reason for the arrest, saying they were "only following orders" like a good Nazi.  It makes you wonder who ordered it and why, but clearly this had nothing to do with not seeing press credentials.

Last edited on Fri May 29th, 2020 05:11 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:33 pm
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The cop who knelt on Floyd's was finally arrested. The other cops have not been.  At this point it seems like he was almost arrested for his own safety more than actual justice.  His house had been surrounded for 3 days, food delivery was being scared away by protesters or refusing to serve him when they found out who he was, and the state was wasting resources protecting his house when they had other places to be.  So this is not exactly any kind of victory yet.  It will be a long, long road to get an indictment and then a conviction.  

Last edited on Fri May 29th, 2020 05:35 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:51 pm
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tamalie
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I get what you mean about protecting the guy and conserving resources instead of posting an army outside his house. The neighbors might also have a shot at things quieting down on that street. However, I don't think he'd have been arrested unless the County Attorney's office felt it had charges that would stick in a trial and/or would encourage a plea bargain that the government and the general public would accept if not be enthusiastic about. If you bring him in now on bunk charges and the case falls apart, it makes arresting him later and getting a conviction or plea bargain much more difficult. On the government side, among those who are leading the case, careers are on the line. Blow this and the chance for future career advancement and possibly retaining career advancement made to date becomes extremely difficult. They should be careful about how this is handled and I assume that's what's happening.

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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 05:58 pm
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tamalie wrote: I get what you mean about protecting the guy and conserving resources instead of posting an army outside his house. The neighbors might also have a shot at things quieting down on that street. However, I don't think he'd have been arrested unless the County Attorney's office felt it had charges that would stick in a trial and/or would encourage a plea bargain that the government and the general public would accept if not be enthusiastic about. If you bring him in now on bunk charges and the case falls apart, it makes arresting him later and getting a conviction or plea bargain much more difficult. On the government side, among those who are leading the case, careers are on the line. Blow this and the chance for future career advancement and possibly retaining career advancement made to date becomes extremely difficult. They should be careful about how this is handled and I assume that's what's happening.
I think the bottom line is that he was going to be killed, and they needed to get him out of there.  Him being murdered would probably cause Trump to do something even more drastic than he already threatened to do on Twitter, and the whole state would fall under martial law.  Now that he's in custody, they hope things can quiet down while they regroup and try to figure out how to get out of this.  The one thing the cops always have on their side is time.  A certain segment of the population won't forget, but many will.  If riots erupt again, they will be less severe and a greater number of people will have the attitude of "Enough already, didn't we already do this?'  But yes, they still need to handle this very carefully. 



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 06:12 pm
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KGB wrote: tamalie wrote: KGB wrote: tamalie wrote: However, the rioting and looting beyond that particular location is mainly opportunists of various types taking advantage of this guy's death to push their own agendas.

There were poor people cleaning out Target and other stores to get their hands on consumer goods they either couldn't afford or just didn't want to pay for.
 
Hmm, what "types" would that be?  In fact, it would be more honest to say "type".   And let's be honest, anyone cleaning out a Target simply didn't want to pay for what they were taking.  It has nothing to do with not being able to afford anything. 
 
I'm not shy about my disgust at what's become of law enforcement in this country, and I hope the pigs that killed this man are served justice, but pretending for the last 50 years that communities of joggers aren't a big problem hasn't done any of us a favor. 


I can see where this is going, so I'll put it this way. It's a low income neighborhood, resided in mostly but not exclusively by persons of color, and from the footage taken by reputable reporters, both outside that Target and actually inside the store as well, there weren't many middle class people who drove in from the burbs to take advantage of the situation to grab some TVs, smartphones, and other pricy or desirable stuff. By definition anyone stealing doesn't want to pay for the item, regardless of their wealth and background. However, the protesting turning to rioting turning to looting in the area around that shopping center was absolutely taken advantage of by persons seizing the opportunity to get stuff they could not otherwise afford as opposed to persons who could have afforded the stuff but just didn't want to pay, though I won't discount the presence and participation of the latter group entirely.

When you say, "middle class" people didn't drive in from the 'burbs to loot and steal, you really mean "white" people.  There's no getting around that fact.  Believe me, for years and I years I also engaged in that canard and like a good conservative I boiled everything down to the marketplace, reducing humans to economic beings.  I just can't keep lying to myself anymore.  We've had generations of whites and blacks trying to make it work, trying to promote the "vibrant" mix of cultures, and it hasn't worked.  It's time to conclude that it will never work.  Anecdotally, yes, it can happen, but in the macro sense we're not the same people.  I don't think much can be done to remedy this in the short term, but at the very least we've got to be honest about our differences.  A good start would be to completely restore freedom of association.  Let people self-segregate and learn from the results. 

Generations? It's only been about 50 years of supposed racial equality in America. Not sure where you're getting generations from when millions can still remember the days of segregation.



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 Posted: Fri May 29th, 2020 06:17 pm
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silentkiller wrote: KGB wrote: tamalie wrote: KGB wrote: tamalie wrote: However, the rioting and looting beyond that particular location is mainly opportunists of various types taking advantage of this guy's death to push their own agendas.

There were poor people cleaning out Target and other stores to get their hands on consumer goods they either couldn't afford or just didn't want to pay for.
 
Hmm, what "types" would that be?  In fact, it would be more honest to say "type".   And let's be honest, anyone cleaning out a Target simply didn't want to pay for what they were taking.  It has nothing to do with not being able to afford anything. 
 
I'm not shy about my disgust at what's become of law enforcement in this country, and I hope the pigs that killed this man are served justice, but pretending for the last 50 years that communities of joggers aren't a big problem hasn't done any of us a favor. 


I can see where this is going, so I'll put it this way. It's a low income neighborhood, resided in mostly but not exclusively by persons of color, and from the footage taken by reputable reporters, both outside that Target and actually inside the store as well, there weren't many middle class people who drove in from the burbs to take advantage of the situation to grab some TVs, smartphones, and other pricy or desirable stuff. By definition anyone stealing doesn't want to pay for the item, regardless of their wealth and background. However, the protesting turning to rioting turning to looting in the area around that shopping center was absolutely taken advantage of by persons seizing the opportunity to get stuff they could not otherwise afford as opposed to persons who could have afforded the stuff but just didn't want to pay, though I won't discount the presence and participation of the latter group entirely.

When you say, "middle class" people didn't drive in from the 'burbs to loot and steal, you really mean "white" people.  There's no getting around that fact.  Believe me, for years and I years I also engaged in that canard and like a good conservative I boiled everything down to the marketplace, reducing humans to economic beings.  I just can't keep lying to myself anymore.  We've had generations of whites and blacks trying to make it work, trying to promote the "vibrant" mix of cultures, and it hasn't worked.  It's time to conclude that it will never work.  Anecdotally, yes, it can happen, but in the macro sense we're not the same people.  I don't think much can be done to remedy this in the short term, but at the very least we've got to be honest about our differences.  A good start would be to completely restore freedom of association.  Let people self-segregate and learn from the results. 

Generations? It's only been about 50 years of supposed racial equality in America. Not sure where you're getting generations from when millions can still remember the days of segregation.

Yeah, it is amazing that we’re only about 150 years removed from slavery, followed by a disastrous Reconstruction period that in many ways was worse than slavery, and only about 50 years past segregation. When you’re under 50, it might as well be a million years ago, but many still remember those days well, and have grandparents who were slaves. 



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