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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 10:40 am
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beejmi
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That's my question. Not meant to be an argument one way or the other. 


This election had things that prior elections did not have. 

TV networks opening for/against.  Mail in ballots. Late Biden comeback in every state. Accusations of abuse of the system.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 10:51 am
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Heenan Fan
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It's America. Nothing's fair. Life is a work. No joke.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 10:51 am
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Heenan Fan
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Last edited on Mon Nov 9th, 2020 01:22 pm by Heenan Fan



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 12:50 pm
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Principal_Raditch



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Both sides played dirty. One was just better at gauging the angles more efficiently.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 02:17 pm
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khawk
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Both sides always play dirty, the difference this year is there was less attempt to disguise it.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 04:49 pm
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tamalie
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No election will be perfect, but it was as fair as any election in what we'd consider the modern political era from say 1968 or so onward.

The 2016 and 2020 elections were both very weird because the Republican candidate in each instance was not a typical politician. You can take the likes of the Bushes, Biden, Dole, Romney, Obama, Kerry, Gore, the Clintons, and others and while you have people from different regions with different political views, all were or are professional politicians who know/knew how to play the game and who largely follow/followed the playbook.

That wasn't and isn't Donald Trump who doesn't even read the playbook. He says and does whatever he wants, convention be damned, often with absolute spontaneity and to the frustration of his more orthodox advisers who are career politicos. My prediction is the Republicans will run a more conventional candidate in 2024 and that election will seem much more like what we saw through 2012 than what we experienced in 2016 and 2020.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 05:38 pm
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Benlen



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What's wrong with mail in ballots? I have been doing it since 1972.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 05:44 pm
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Blazer
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We're in uncharted territory.


In middle school when studying government, I remember the emphasis the teacher put on the "equal time" rule when candidates were campaigning through radio and tv.


Times have changed. In addition to radio and tv, the "internet" or "social media" has become a broadcast outlet, maybe the most important one at this point. If not, certainly ahead of radio and maybe a notch behind tv.


A far greater change has occurred though. The media now is blatantly partisan. There was always some degree of bias, but it was always subtle and the professionalism throughout the media was standard. Now, that is completely out the window.


So, Trump may have received "equal time" through the media, but was it "fair time"? Not even close. He was running against CNN and 60 Minutes and Twitter more than he was running against Biden.

Last edited on Mon Nov 9th, 2020 05:44 pm by Blazer



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 05:58 pm
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srossi
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Blazer wrote: We're in uncharted territory.


In middle school when studying government, I remember the emphasis the teacher put on the "equal time" rule when candidates were campaigning through radio and tv.


Times have changed. In addition to radio and tv, the "internet" or "social media" has become a broadcast outlet, maybe the most important one at this point. If not, certainly ahead of radio and maybe a notch behind tv.


A far greater change has occurred though. The media now is blatantly partisan. There was always some degree of bias, but it was always subtle and the professionalism throughout the media was standard. Now, that is completely out the window.


So, Trump may have received "equal time" through the media, but was it "fair time"? Not even close. He was running against CNN and 60 Minutes and Twitter more than he was running against Biden.

Oh please, the reason he got the following he got in the first place was exactly for that reason.  Every network reported every piss break he ever took in 2016, far more than they reported on real speeches by real candidates, and any snark from the networks during that coverage just added to his appeal for his base.  When there was a legitimate third party candidate in 2016 who was the freaking Governor of New Mexico for 8 years and couldn't get 5 seconds of air time on any network on the planet, I don't want to hear anyone bitching about "equal time" or "fair Time".  The entertainment and ratings sideshow that Trump brought to politics MADE him president.  He needs to send a thank you note to CNN and all the other networks for giving his existence credibility.  They made him president and they've loved every minute of the last 4 years.  It's all a work.

Last edited on Mon Nov 9th, 2020 05:59 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 06:05 pm
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Superstar
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Benlen wrote: What's wrong with mail in ballots? I have been doing it since 1972.In theory, nothing.  In reality, we are working with the US Government.  How many Government programs have you seen or been a part of that worked flawlessly?  The issue here is, you mail in your ballot AND vote in person, and somewhere along the line the two systems don't "see" each other and you in essence got away with voting twice.  Plus remember Papa Voo I believe it was had a relative die a year ago but still got at stimulus check - and it was made out to "Papa Voo Relative, Deceased".  So chances are that if a check came, a mail-in ballot could get snuck in.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 07:07 pm
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There's shenanigans in every election is there not? To varying degrees at least.


Nothing like Communist countries where voting is decided by how much ones desire is to keep on living. 


It does seem like in the U.S.  there does not seem to be a uniform manner of voting with different rules from State to State.

Whether there was enough shenanigans to tip the scales in any State to the point where the winner of said State would actually be the loser I doubt.

Trump was an asshat from the get go. While I personally think that Biden may have difficulty completing his term I think almost any candidate running against Trump would have won. 



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 08:56 pm
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The Ultimate Sin
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Superstar wrote: Benlen wrote: What's wrong with mail in ballots? I have been doing it since 1972.In theory, nothing.  In reality, we are working with the US Government.  How many Government programs have you seen or been a part of that worked flawlessly?  The issue here is, you mail in your ballot AND vote in person, and somewhere along the line the two systems don't "see" each other and you in essence got away with voting twice.  Plus remember Papa Voo I believe it was had a relative die a year ago but still got at stimulus check - and it was made out to "Papa Voo Relative, Deceased".  So chances are that if a check came, a mail-in ballot could get snuck in.


Jesus fucking Christ...You get the ballot from the same fucking person whether you vote mail-in or in person.  When you request the mail in your name is marked in yellow highlighter so they know that your numbered ballot was sent.  

When you show up in person the old lady with the highlighter who highlights your name would say, "You already received your ballot, sonny." (At least in my precinct they are always olds fuck.)

At that point you can void your original numbered ballot claiming some sort of fraud, or walk back out the fucking door and pretend you weren't committing a felony.

Seriously, there have been mail-in ballots since the Civil War, and people honestly think that 2020 is the first time anyone ever thought of this trick, and in 150 years the fucking voting committee never put a safeguard in place.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 09:42 pm
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srossi
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The Ultimate Sin wrote: Superstar wrote: Benlen wrote: What's wrong with mail in ballots? I have been doing it since 1972.In theory, nothing.  In reality, we are working with the US Government.  How many Government programs have you seen or been a part of that worked flawlessly?  The issue here is, you mail in your ballot AND vote in person, and somewhere along the line the two systems don't "see" each other and you in essence got away with voting twice.  Plus remember Papa Voo I believe it was had a relative die a year ago but still got at stimulus check - and it was made out to "Papa Voo Relative, Deceased".  So chances are that if a check came, a mail-in ballot could get snuck in.


Jesus fucking Christ...You get the ballot from the same fucking person whether you vote mail-in or in person.  When you request the mail in your name is marked in yellow highlighter so they know that your numbered ballot was sent.  

When you show up in person the old lady with the highlighter who highlights your name would say, "You already received your ballot, sonny." (At least in my precinct they are always olds fuck.)

At that point you can void your original numbered ballot claiming some sort of fraud, or walk back out the fucking door and pretend you weren't committing a felony.

Seriously, there have been mail-in ballots since the Civil War, and people honestly think that 2020 is the first time anyone ever thought of this trick, and in 150 years the fucking voting committee never put a safeguard in place.


It's been talked about ad nauseum the last 2 weeks so a bit strange that people still don't get it.  You get the mail-in ballot, they absolutely track it, you show up and tell your story.  Maybe you got it but decided not to use it.  You usually bring it with you.  They give you a provisional ballot.  You fill that out and that's set aside until they can check for sure that you haven't voted twice.  Are mistakes made?  I'm sure there are every once in a while.  But this goes on every year and Trumpsters act like it's new and can't provide a single shred of evidence that there are widespread cases of people voting twice.  Just like he was never able to prove 4 years ago that 3 million illegals voted for Hillary, an even more absurd claim and one he pulled out of his ass even though he won, just so he could save face that he lost the popular vote.  People really can't figure him out after all this time?  Jesus Christ. 



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 Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2020 11:11 pm
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khawk
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Blazer wrote:

So, Trump may have received "equal time" through the media, but was it "fair time"? Not even close. He was running against CNN and 60 Minutes and Twitter more than he was running against Biden.Pretty sure his pronouncements of "fake news" so often when speaking of everyone with a critical word against him didn't help with CNN et al.

It's not like Fox News didn't suck as much of his dick as they possibly could to make up for it. Unless Fox isn't on everywhere that CNN is, I dunno, you're TV down there is pretty messed up with so many providers and whatnot.

It's shitty that news networks have become what they've become, it makes them all pretty unwatchable no matter which party you're affiliated with. It's the ultimate reality tv now (in the shittiest sense)and I'm not sure they can go back or even want to. The ratings must be amazing for all of them.


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 Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2020 01:15 am
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The Ultimate Sin
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srossi wrote: The Ultimate Sin wrote: Superstar wrote: Benlen wrote: What's wrong with mail in ballots? I have been doing it since 1972.In theory, nothing.  In reality, we are working with the US Government.  How many Government programs have you seen or been a part of that worked flawlessly?  The issue here is, you mail in your ballot AND vote in person, and somewhere along the line the two systems don't "see" each other and you in essence got away with voting twice.  Plus remember Papa Voo I believe it was had a relative die a year ago but still got at stimulus check - and it was made out to "Papa Voo Relative, Deceased".  So chances are that if a check came, a mail-in ballot could get snuck in.


Jesus fucking Christ...You get the ballot from the same fucking person whether you vote mail-in or in person.  When you request the mail in your name is marked in yellow highlighter so they know that your numbered ballot was sent.  

When you show up in person the old lady with the highlighter who highlights your name would say, "You already received your ballot, sonny." (At least in my precinct they are always olds fuck.)

At that point you can void your original numbered ballot claiming some sort of fraud, or walk back out the fucking door and pretend you weren't committing a felony.

Seriously, there have been mail-in ballots since the Civil War, and people honestly think that 2020 is the first time anyone ever thought of this trick, and in 150 years the fucking voting committee never put a safeguard in place.


It's been talked about ad nauseum the last 2 weeks so a bit strange that people still don't get it.  You get the mail-in ballot, they absolutely track it, you show up and tell your story.  Maybe you got it but decided not to use it.  You usually bring it with you.  They give you a provisional ballot.  You fill that out and that's set aside until they can check for sure that you haven't voted twice.  Are mistakes made?  I'm sure there are every once in a while.  But this goes on every year and Trumpsters act like it's new and can't provide a single shred of evidence that there are widespread cases of people voting twice.  Just like he was never able to prove 4 years ago that 3 million illegals voted for Hillary, an even more absurd claim and one he pulled out of his ass even though he won, just so he could save face that he lost the popular vote.  People really can't figure him out after all this time?  Jesus Christ. 


I mentioned it earlier, I got my absentee ballot early, but waited until close to the election to complete it.  They sent me two notices to tell me I requested a ballot but that they hadn't received it, and who to contact if I hadn't actually requested it, or if I had sent it and it was lost.



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