WowBB Forums Home 
WowBB Forums > Sports And Wrestling > Sports Talk > Andy Pettitte Hall of Famer?

 Moderated by: Ron, brodiescomics, beejmi  
AuthorPost
silentkiller



Joined: Thu Oct 18th, 2007
Location: Flatbush, Brooklyn
Posts: 1271
Status: 
Offline
If Andy Pettitte's career ended after this season do you think he is a hall of famer?

CampCornetteNWA

 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline
Nope. He admitted to using PEDs. No way he'd ever get my vote.



 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline
No, but not for the PEDs, he just wasn't elite.

He was never the best pitcher in the league.

He won 20 games only twice.

That said, he always got better in teh 2nd half of the season and he was as clutch as they come in the playoffs/WS, before or after his PED use.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 53327
Status: 
Offline
Very close.  His won-loss record is spectacular at 229-135 (.629).  ERA is under 4, excellent for spending most of his career in the A.L. East.  Postseason he's even better with an 18-9 (.667) record and maintaining a sub-4 ERA.  A work-horse who is always among league leaders in innings pitched and led the league in starts 3 years.  Maybe the best pick-off move in the history of the game and fields his position well if you want to throw in some extras. 

On the downside, he's only reached 20 wins twice in a 14-year career.  Only led the league in wins once.  Only made the All-Star team twice.  Wins are helped a lot by being a Yankee because his last year in Houston he pitched very well and went 14-13.  Really never THE man in a rotation, but usually 1a or 1b.  Gets his outs on ground balls, which is less sexy than the strikeout kings that voters usually gravitate towards. 

It's a tough call.  I'd give him the nod based on clutch pitching performances in the postseason.  That's what it's all about and he's out-dueled some of the best in the game in the playoffs year in and year out, most notably the famous 1-0 win over John Smoltz in Game 5 in '96. 

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10020
Status: 
Offline
Borderline, but my gut says no.  I'd be more inclined to put in Jack Morris or Mike Mussina before I'd put Pettite in.

I do think I'd put Pettite in before I'd put Blylevyn in though.

 

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 53327
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Borderline, but my gut says no.  I'd be more inclined to put in Jack Morris or Mike Mussina before I'd put Pettite in.

I do think I'd put Pettite in before I'd put Blylevyn in though.

 

I'd put Pettitte in long before Mussina.  To any Yankee fan it's not even a question of who you'd rather have pitching a big game.

HBF



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Posts: 17866
Status: 
Offline
I say no because of the PED's but also because he wasn't elite, like Hack said.

He was as clutch as they come in the post-season and is one of my faves for Yankee pitchers.

I think Ron Guidry was a better pitcher. Guidry started in the majors at 27 though, eliminating any chance he had at all-time recognition.

freebirdsforever2001
Fantasia is running wild!


Joined: Tue Jul 8th, 2008
Location: Pittsgrove, New Jersey USA
Posts: 20758
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Borderline, but my gut says no.  I'd be more inclined to put in Jack Morris or Mike Mussina before I'd put Pettite in.

I do think I'd put Pettite in before I'd put Blylevyn in though.

 

I think that Blyleven and Morris deserve to be in moreso then Pettite. Pettite was very good, but not great. Pass.

BigJ



Joined: Thu Oct 18th, 2007
Location: The Bottom Of Lake Millerton
Posts: 6935
Status: 
Offline
If Andy Pettitte spent his career as a Milwaukee Brewer he wouldn't even be in the conversation.

Absolutely not.  The career numbers arent there at all.

NJRob65

 

Joined: Sat Aug 16th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 1127
Status: 
Offline
No, he'd be fortunate to receive the requisite five percent of the vote of the Baseball Writer's Association of America(B.B.W.A.A.) on the 2016 Hall of Fame Ballot, which would be his first year of HoF eligibility, needed to remain on the HoF ballot.

C.C. Milani

 

Joined: Wed Oct 7th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 808
Status: 
Offline
CampCornetteNWA wrote:
Nope. He admitted to using PEDs. No way he'd ever get my vote.

That certainly didn't take long.

I don't see Pettite as a Hall of Famer either. He's the next step down, and if he had won a Cy Young Award I might endorse him, but there's just not enough there. Put him in the "Hall of Really Good" with Steve Garvey, Al Oliver, Jack Morris, etc.

LAF



Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 4596
Status: 
Offline
BigJ wrote: If Andy Pettitte spent his career as a Milwaukee Brewer he wouldn't even be in the conversation.

If he was any good, he wouldn't have stayed in Milwaukee beyond his first foray into free agency.

Papa Voo



Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: Right Outside The Burgh, USA
Posts: 9688
Status: 
Offline
BigJ wrote: If Andy Pettitte spent his career as a Milwaukee Brewer he wouldn't even be in the conversation.

Absolutely not.  The career numbers arent there at all.

This.

CampCornetteNWA

 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline
Tommy John deserves to be in more than Andy Petite. He's got the most career wins among lefties not in.

silentkiller



Joined: Thu Oct 18th, 2007
Location: Flatbush, Brooklyn
Posts: 1271
Status: 
Offline
CampCornetteNWA wrote: Tommy John deserves to be in more than Andy Petite. He's got the most career wins among lefties not in.

Somebody has to have that distinction, that doesn't make them a Hall Of Famer.

LAF



Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 4596
Status: 
Offline
CampCornetteNWA wrote: Tommy John deserves to be in more than Andy Petite. He's got the most career wins among lefties not in.

He pitched until he was nearly 50

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10020
Status: 
Offline
LAF wrote: CampCornetteNWA wrote: Tommy John deserves to be in more than Andy Petite. He's got the most career wins among lefties not in.

He pitched until he was nearly 50

Plus, he had Performance Enhancing Surgery (PES).

pjstef



Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2186
Status: 
Offline
freebirdsforever2001 wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Borderline, but my gut says no.  I'd be more inclined to put in Jack Morris or Mike Mussina before I'd put Pettite in.

I do think I'd put Pettite in before I'd put Blylevyn in though.

 

I think that Blyleven and Morris deserve to be in moreso then Pettite. Pettite was very good, but not great. Pass.

I say Morris moreso than Blyleven. Pettite was not great but neither was Bly. I have always felt Morris belonged.

Chrisstlouis

 

Joined: Thu Jun 11th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 2397
Status: 
Offline
Blyleven then Morris

freebirdsforever2001
Fantasia is running wild!


Joined: Tue Jul 8th, 2008
Location: Pittsgrove, New Jersey USA
Posts: 20758
Status: 
Offline
BigJ wrote: If Andy Pettitte spent his career as a Milwaukee Brewer he wouldn't even be in the conversation.

Absolutely not.  The career numbers arent there at all.

East Coast bias, Big J. ;)

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 7164
Status: 
Offline
No Cy Youngs for Pettitte. That doesn't help.

Mick



Joined: Thu Nov 8th, 2007
Location: Wichita, Kansas USA
Posts: 666
Status: 
Offline
Pettitte's great, but still a notch below HOF worthy. There's actually quite a few current pitchers in the same category.

stingmark

 

Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cop City, California USA
Posts: 9403
Status: 
Offline
freebirdsforever2001 wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Borderline, but my gut says no.  I'd be more inclined to put in Jack Morris or Mike Mussina before I'd put Pettite in.

I do think I'd put Pettite in before I'd put Blylevyn in though.

 

I think that Blyleven and Morris deserve to be in moreso then Pettite. Pettite was very good, but not great. Pass.

X2......how do you put Pettitte in and Not Bert or Jack?

TerryWWWF



Joined: Mon Nov 26th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 4322
Status: 
Offline
Pettitte is a lock if he wins 65 games this season.

BigJ



Joined: Thu Oct 18th, 2007
Location: The Bottom Of Lake Millerton
Posts: 6935
Status: 
Offline
LAF wrote: BigJ wrote: If Andy Pettitte spent his career as a Milwaukee Brewer he wouldn't even be in the conversation.

If he was any good, he wouldn't have stayed in Milwaukee beyond his first foray into free agency.

Well, yeah, there's that.

CampCornetteNWA

 

Joined: 
Location:  
Posts: 
Status: 
Offline
LAF wrote: CampCornetteNWA wrote: Tommy John deserves to be in more than Andy Petite. He's got the most career wins among lefties not in.

He pitched until he was nearly 50

So, did Nolan Ryan

Nolan's record..  324-292

Tommy John's record...  288-231

It's pretty obvious who has the better win percentage among those two.

My point is that before anyone brings up the phrases "Andy Pettitte" and "Hall of Fame", guys like Ron Santo and Tommy John need to be looked at again.

Plus, with the Yankees teams that Pettitte was on, I could've won 200 games.


BigJ



Joined: Thu Oct 18th, 2007
Location: The Bottom Of Lake Millerton
Posts: 6935
Status: 
Offline
The problem with guys like Tommy John is people forget in his specific case how abysmally bad he was toward the middle end of his career. To not be able to make an impact or stay on teams like the angels and the A's around 85-ish all the way up through his horrible Yankees stint following it. I just don't see Hall of Fame there

stingmark

 

Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cop City, California USA
Posts: 9403
Status: 
Offline
CampCornetteNWA wrote: LAF wrote: CampCornetteNWA wrote: Tommy John deserves to be in more than Andy Petite. He's got the most career wins among lefties not in.

He pitched until he was nearly 50

So, did Nolan Ryan

Nolan's record..  324-292

Tommy John's record...  288-231

It's pretty obvious who has the better win percentage among those two.

My point is that before anyone brings up the phrases "Andy Pettitte" and "Hall of Fame", guys like Ron Santo and Tommy John need to be looked at again.

Plus, with the Yankees teams that Pettitte was on, I could've won 200 games.




Nolan Ryan=7 no hitters(more than anyone else)...5,000+ strikeouts(more than anyone else)...NEVER on disabled list......best strikeout pitcher ever......

 

Yeah, HE MORE THAN DESERVES A FUCKING HOF NOD.

C.C. Milani

 

Joined: Wed Oct 7th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 808
Status: 
Offline
CampCornetteNWA wrote:
Nolan's record..  324-292

Tommy John's record...  288-231

It's pretty obvious who has the better win percentage among those two.


Richie Hebner had a higher batting average than Reggie Jackson.

Of course, Reggie Jackson isn't in the Hall because of his batting average, just as Nolan Ryan isn't in the Hall for his W - L record.

lobo316
Mr Basketball


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Raptorville
Posts: 44662
Status: 
Offline
No HOF for Pettitte. If Stottlemyre had pitched for these Yankee teams, he would have won 20 games 6 or 7 times in his career. But he pitched during the Jake Gibbs era when the Yanks sucked the big one.
Stott won 20 games 3 times, Pettitte only twice with great teams.

C.C. Milani

 

Joined: Wed Oct 7th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 808
Status: 
Offline
lobo316 wrote:
No HOF for Pettitte. If Stottlemyre had pitched for these Yankee teams, he would have won 20 games 6 or 7 times in his career.

I don't think so. Stottlemyer started more games and pitched more innings, thus inflating his total decisions. Stottlemyer had more wins, but more losses as well.

Not that Stottlemyer was a bad pitcher, just that pitchers were used differently in the 60's, and one can't compare the stats without taking that into account.

lobo316 wrote:
But he pitched during the Jake Gibbs era when the Yanks sucked the big one.
Stott won 20 games 3 times, Pettitte only twice with great teams.


The "great Yankee teams (1996 - 2005) produced four 20-game winners. Clemems, Cone, and Pettite twice.

Point being, if winning 20 with such a great team was so easy, why didn't it happen more often?

clawmaster
Hall Of Famer
 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: The Bowels Of East Central Illinois
Posts: 48216
Status: 
Offline
Greg Maddux only won 20 games twice. Think about that. Greg fucking Maddux. With 5 man rotations and so many relief pitchers being used makes it much harder to win 20 games than it was back in the day.

pjstef



Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2186
Status: 
Offline
C.C. Milani wrote: lobo316 wrote:
No HOF for Pettitte. If Stottlemyre had pitched for these Yankee teams, he would have won 20 games 6 or 7 times in his career.

I don't think so. Stottlemyer started more games and pitched more innings, thus inflating his total decisions. Stottlemyer had more wins, but more losses as well.

Not that Stottlemyer was a bad pitcher, just that pitchers were used differently in the 60's, and one can't compare the stats without taking that into account.


Stott won a large portion of his team's total wins, which does speak well for him. But outside of that, as CC said, with the 5-man rotation and starters usually taken out by the 7th inning, they do not get as many starts or decisions as they got in the day, which is a major consideration.



UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2013 Data 1 Systems