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katook



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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-brown_pujols_angels_agree_terms_120811

Albert Pujols leaves the Cardinals to go to the AL and play for the Angels.

It only (sarcasm) cost the Angels $254 Million over 10 years.

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I think this is great,on 2 fronts.

1-I hate the Cardinals

2-I'm a Cincinnati Reds fan and this does a whole lot to enhance their chances of winning the division.

TXM



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Prince Fielder is probably a happy man right now.

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Congrats to the Angels on getting the best player in the game, and no regrets from this Cardinals fan. I think all we need is Berkman or Holliday to step up and we've got a great team.

katook



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I think you guys still have one helluva ball team w/o him.  Which is why as a Reds fan I'm glad he's gone.

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katook wrote: I think you guys still have one helluva ball team w/o him.  Which is why as a Reds fan I'm glad he's gone.

I agree. Also, the local news is now full of stories like "the GM has suddenly realised he's got 20-odd million dollars a season to play with", so, while I very much doubt we'll do as well as this season, we should still be plenty competitive.

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Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...

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Married Jo wrote:
Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...

Good call. Getting Fielder for a deal like this&saving over half the money youd have spent to keep Albert, would be a smart move imo. Plus, youre not tied down to a 10yr deal, like the Angels now are. Fielder still has a tradeable contract, not so much w/Pujols.

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That's the thing here, look, Pujols is hands down the best player in baseball and will probably go down as one of the best ever. That said, if I were a Cardinals fan, as sad as it would be to see him leave, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it's the Angels that did that deal and not us. 10 years is just far too long a contract..over-pay a guy like Fielder now for a few years to keep your team great and do it knowing that the few million more a year you are giving him than he may be worth, the fact you don't have to do it for 10 years MORE than makes up for that..

stingmark



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Married Jo wrote:
That's the thing here, look, Pujols is hands down the best player in baseball and will probably go down as one of the best ever. That said, if I were a Cardinals fan, as sad as it would be to see him leave, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it's the Angels that did that deal and not us. 10 years is just far too long a contract..over-pay a guy like Fielder now for a few years to keep your team great and do it knowing that the few million more a year you are giving him than he may be worth, the fact you don't have to do it for 10 years MORE than makes up for that..

Exactly. Now the Cards have $100+million to spend, to bring in more talent, should they sign Fielder. They can get 2-3 guys, for the price of Albert. They could trade Fielder to another team in say 2/3 yrs, if it doesnt work out& theyre not on the hook for a truckload of cash. Yeah, 10 yrs for a 32 yr old player, whos starting to show signs of breaking down? Not a good move imo. Great talent, no question, too much for too many years.

Last edited on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 04:22 pm by stingmark

TXM



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Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.

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My greatest fear - the Rangers respond to the Angels 'throwing down the gauntlet' and sign Fielder.  He could have a huge year in that ballpark in Texas.

Still thrilled by the Angels signing Albert, Wilson and Hawkins in one day.  The dollars don't match up, but Hawkins will likely end up being just as important to the team in a big picture sense.

stingmark



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TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.

stingmark



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thunderbolt wrote:
My greatest fear - the Rangers respond to the Angels 'throwing down the gauntlet' and sign Fielder.  He could have a huge year in that ballpark in Texas.

Still thrilled by the Angels signing Albert, Wilson and Hawkins in one day.  The dollars don't match up, but Hawkins will likely end up being just as important to the team in a big picture sense.

How about this:TX signs Fielder, then pulls off a trade for Hamels? Nice counter by the Rangers there? Plus, they save a bunch of $$. Im sure TX has some pieces the Phils would want kn return?

stingmark



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Btw, nice "under the radar" signing by the Pirates, to steal Bedard for cheap? Steal of the meetings imo. That guy could end up winning 15-18 games for them. Also, nice job signing McCloth.

Good job Pirates.

TXM



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stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.

Last edited on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 04:50 pm by TXM

stingmark



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TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.


Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder? Not worth it imo. Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill, it could happen though. Just dont see it, imo.

Alot of folks thought Pujols would get a $200+ mill deal, 3-4 teams offered hkm $220 and he turned them all down. Not unreasonable to believe hed get Arod type money? I thought atleast $240 would have to do it. Guys better than AFraud, he got almost as much, which was pretty much right in line.

TXM



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stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.


Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder? Not worth it imo. Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill, it could happen though. Just dont see it, imo.

Alot of folks thought Pujols would get a $200+ mill deal, 3-4 teams offered hkm $220 and he turned them all down. Not unreasonable to believe hed get Arod type money? I thought atleast $240 would have to do it. Guys better than AFraud, he got almost as much, which was pretty much right in line.

Let's revisit this when Prince gets his deal.

stingmark



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TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.


Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder? Not worth it imo. Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill, it could happen though. Just dont see it, imo.

Alot of folks thought Pujols would get a $200+ mill deal, 3-4 teams offered hkm $220 and he turned them all down. Not unreasonable to believe hed get Arod type money? I thought atleast $240 would have to do it. Guys better than AFraud, he got almost as much, which was pretty much right in line.

Let's revisit this when Prince gets his deal.


Kinda proves my point though, that hes not worth an 8yr $150+ mill deal? If he were, you can be certain hed have been signed. 8yrs is too long. From what I remember hearing, not a single team offered him more than a 5-6 yr deal.

But, we'll revisit it later.

stingmark



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TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.


Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder? Not worth it imo. Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill, it could happen though. Just dont see it, imo.

Alot of folks thought Pujols would get a $200+ mill deal, 3-4 teams offered hkm $220 and he turned them all down. Not unreasonable to believe hed get Arod type money? I thought atleast $240 would have to do it. Guys better than AFraud, he got almost as much, which was pretty much right in line.

Let's revisit this when Prince gets his deal.


Kinda proves my point though, that hes not worth an 8yr $150+ mill deal? If he were, you can be certain hed have been signed. 8yrs is too long. From what I remember hearing, not a single team offered him more than a 5-6 yr deal.

But, we'll revisit it later.

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I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million

stingmark



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mike3775 wrote:
I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million


Too much &too many years. Most likely wont be there that long anyways, what other team will want to trade for a horrible contract like that?

TXM



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stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million


Too much &too many years. Most likely wont be there that long anyways, what other team will want to trade for a horrible contract like that?


It's not a trade. He's a free agent. He'll get what the market will bear.

stingmark



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TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million


Too much &too many years. Most likely wont be there that long anyways, what other team will want to trade for a horrible contract like that?


It's not a trade. He's a free agent. He'll get what the market will bear.
I know that......i was assuming, had he signed a huge deal, he wouldnt be w/said team for the life of the contract?what team would want to trade for a guy 2/3 yrs dtr, with a horrible contract like that?

TXM



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stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million


Too much &too many years. Most likely wont be there that long anyways, what other team will want to trade for a horrible contract like that?


It's not a trade. He's a free agent. He'll get what the market will bear.
I know that......i was assuming, had he signed a huge deal, he wouldnt be w/said team for the life of the contract?what team would want to trade for a guy 2/3 yrs dtr, with a horrible contract like that?

My bad. Sorry.

stingmark



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TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million


Too much &too many years. Most likely wont be there that long anyways, what other team will want to trade for a horrible contract like that?


It's not a trade. He's a free agent. He'll get what the market will bear.
I know that......i was assuming, had he signed a huge deal, he wouldnt be w/said team for the life of the contract?what team would want to trade for a guy 2/3 yrs dtr, with a horrible contract like that?

My bad. Sorry.


No worries. Those super huge contracts, are practically untradeable down the road, should a team want to dump it later. Doubt many teams would take ARods contract today? Guys stuck in NY and basically collecting a huge contract, hes not earning, imo.

TXM



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stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million


Too much &too many years. Most likely wont be there that long anyways, what other team will want to trade for a horrible contract like that?


It's not a trade. He's a free agent. He'll get what the market will bear.
I know that......i was assuming, had he signed a huge deal, he wouldnt be w/said team for the life of the contract?what team would want to trade for a guy 2/3 yrs dtr, with a horrible contract like that?

My bad. Sorry.


No worries. Those super huge contracts, are practically untradeable down the road, should a team want to dump it later. Doubt many teams would take ARods contract today? Guys stuck in NY and basically collecting a huge contract, hes not earning, imo.


Do you think Pujols contact isn't going to haunt LA 4 or 5 years down the road?

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stingmark wrote: Btw, nice "under the radar" signing by the Pirates, to steal Bedard for cheap? Steal of the meetings imo. That guy could end up winning 15-18 games for them. Also, nice job signing McCloth.

Good job Pirates.

Need an offense that scores a run now and then to have a chance of having a 15 game winner.

stingmark



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TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
I see Fielder going for anywhere between 8-10 yrs for $175-$200 million


Too much &too many years. Most likely wont be there that long anyways, what other team will want to trade for a horrible contract like that?


It's not a trade. He's a free agent. He'll get what the market will bear.
I know that......i was assuming, had he signed a huge deal, he wouldnt be w/said team for the life of the contract?what team would want to trade for a guy 2/3 yrs dtr, with a horrible contract like that?

My bad. Sorry.


No worries. Those super huge contracts, are practically untradeable down the road, should a team want to dump it later. Doubt many teams would take ARods contract today? Guys stuck in NY and basically collecting a huge contract, hes not earning, imo.


Do you think Pujols contact isn't going to haunt LA 4 or 5 years down the road?



Of course it will, which was my point earlier, w/Fielder. In 3/4/5 years, when the Angels dont win &want to dump payroll, they wont get anyone to take that deal.

It works out for the Cards, why? They dont have to spend $250 mill on a guy, theyll most likely trade anyways 3/4 years dtr, anyways. They dont have to worry about unloading that horrible contract. They can use the $saved, to get miltiple players, who can help them.

stingmark



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Hymie Itsu wrote:
stingmark wrote: Btw, nice "under the radar" signing by the Pirates, to steal Bedard for cheap? Steal of the meetings imo. That guy could end up winning 15-18 games for them. Also, nice job signing McCloth.

Good job Pirates.

Need an offense that scores a run now and then to have a chance of having a 15 game winner.


Yep. But, they didnt spend alot on either, they can still go out &get a few more bats if they need to. Lots of low cost guys thay can help them, and they get them for cheap.

Kinda pissed my Tigs didnt go after Bedard more aggressively, he wouldve looked nice in the 5th starter spot.

Last edited on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 06:36 pm by stingmark

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Fielder is younger than Pujols, so in 4-5 yrs, he will be Pujols, and this is it for him.

Fielder will get that, because he had a monster walk year.  But he will deliver for whatever team he ends up with

As far as contracts being not traded, thats what they said about A-Rods 10yr $252 million from the Rangers, yet he was traded, and even Vernon Wells contract

Last edited on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 09:32 pm by mike3775

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Famous Mortimer wrote: Congrats to the Angels on getting the best player in the game, and no regrets from this Cardinals fan. I think all we need is Berkman or Holliday to step up and we've got a great team.
Still waitn for that punkass Holiday to do something

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Chrisstlouis wrote:
Famous Mortimer wrote: Congrats to the Angels on getting the best player in the game, and no regrets from this Cardinals fan. I think all we need is Berkman or Holliday to step up and we've got a great team.
Still waitn for that punkass Holiday to do something


You mean the guy that got almost Pujols money, w/half the production?

stingmark



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mike3775 wrote:
Fielder is younger than Pujols, so in 4-5 yrs, he will be Pujols, and this is it for him.

Fielder will get that, because he had a monster walk year.  But he will deliver for whatever team he ends up with

As far as contracts being not traded, thats what they said about A-Rods 10yr $252 million from the Rangers, yet he was traded, and even Vernon Wells contract


I bet Nolan Ryan sends the Yanks christmas cards, thanking them for taking ARods contract off their hands? Infact, I wouldnt be surprised if that was part of the deal? Trust me, ARod retires a Yankee. No one wants to touch his deal. Fielder will get a Carl Crawford like deal I bet? Hows that workin out for Boston?

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stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
Fielder is younger than Pujols, so in 4-5 yrs, he will be Pujols, and this is it for him.

Fielder will get that, because he had a monster walk year.  But he will deliver for whatever team he ends up with

As far as contracts being not traded, thats what they said about A-Rods 10yr $252 million from the Rangers, yet he was traded, and even Vernon Wells contract


I bet Nolan Ryan sends the Yanks christmas cards, thanking them for taking ARods contract off their hands? Infact, I wouldnt be surprised if that was part of the deal? Trust me, ARod retires a Yankee. No one wants to touch his deal. Fielder will get a Carl Crawford like deal I bet? Hows that workin out for Boston?
Crawford was only in the first year of that deal,  Will you still use him as an example next year if he hits his normal numbers next year?  No you won't.

If a team is desperate enough, they will take A-Rod if the yankees pay part of the salary, remember, Texas still paid past of his salary after he was traded to NY also.  They were off the hook when he opted out early, and now its all on NY.  If A-Rod never opted out when he did, Texas would have been paying him part of his salary until last year I believe, in which case, they would never have gone anywhere the past 2 years. 

Last edited on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 11:59 pm by mike3775

stingmark



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mike3775 wrote: stingmark wrote: mike3775 wrote:
Fielder is younger than Pujols, so in 4-5 yrs, he will be Pujols, and this is it for him.

Fielder will get that, because he had a monster walk year.  But he will deliver for whatever team he ends up with

As far as contracts being not traded, thats what they said about A-Rods 10yr $252 million from the Rangers, yet he was traded, and even Vernon Wells contract


I bet Nolan Ryan sends the Yanks christmas cards, thanking them for taking ARods contract off their hands? Infact, I wouldnt be surprised if that was part of the deal? Trust me, ARod retires a Yankee. No one wants to touch his deal. Fielder will get a Carl Crawford like deal I bet? Hows that workin out for Boston?
Crawford was only in the first year of that deal,  Will you still use him as an example next year if he hits his normal numbers next year?  No you won't.

If a team is desperate enough, they will take A-Rod if the yankees pay part of the salary, remember, Texas still paid past of his salary after he was traded to NY also.  They were off the hook when he opted out early, and now its all on NY.  If A-Rod never opted out when he did, Texas would have been paying him part of his salary until last year I believe, in which case, they would never have gone anywhere the past 2 years. 


Yes, i will...he's overpaid, and got too long of a deal. Andruw Jones got some huge deal once, and it ended up hurting the Braves for many years. Most big contracts do, thats why I dont "get" why so many teams are so quick to award them to guys. Vlad Guerrero got some huge deal too, and didnt live up to it IMO. If you remember, they(Boston) signed Lackey too, to some stupid deal, and that didnt do too well did it? Many Bosox fans hated that guy, and the deal, I guess they're in for a big shock in about 2-3 yrs, when Crawfords production doesnt merit his high salary? Wanna see how fast they cant wait to move him in about 3-4 yrs, and wont find any takers, unless they kick in ALOT of the cash from said big contract?

I seriously doubt there's a team "desperate enough" to take Arod from NY, they're stuck with him, if there were such a team, theyd have already tried going after him, before he went to NY. He's basically worthless now. if I were a gm, I wouldnt sign him tomorrow, at his age & $$$, if he walked into my clubhouse, begging to play. The Vernon Wells deal, should've smartened up the Angels, but unfortunately, it didnt, and thus, they will learn, down the road(in about 4-5 yrs im guessing), when he's no longer a domimant hitter, and can barely move, and they end up making him a full time DH, just so he can continue getting his at bats. All the while, not being able to trade him, because "desperate team' or not, no one in their right mind, would trade much more than a bag of balls for him then, and that would probably be giving up too much. By all means, marvel at his "huge deal", but know that about 85% of the teams in the league couldnt(or wouldnt) pay him what he wanted, he went where the money was, cant fault him for that.  The owners paying these exhorbant deals are more to blame. But, then, dont cry when your team is hamstrung, and you cant make the playoffs, or payroll, & call foul, and poor, and the balance is out of whack, all the while enjoying his bloated contract, that now you cant move, and he hasnt won you a thing.

Last edited on Sat Dec 10th, 2011 03:12 am by stingmark

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I bet Prince will get a contract similar to Pujols. Less but comparable money similar number of years.


The Angels will be saddled with this contract, but sometimes guys get unhappy and ask out of contracts, some times (Arod Texas) you can deal the guy and pay a hunk of the contract. The Halos aren't completely locked into this deal.

I'm glad to see him with the Angels. Their order should be tough.

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The Ultimate Sin wrote: I bet Prince will get a contract similar to Pujols. Less but comparable money similar number of years.


The Angels will be saddled with this contract, but sometimes guys get unhappy and ask out of contracts, some times (Arod Texas) you can deal the guy and pay a hunk of the contract. The Halos aren't completely locked into this deal.

I'm glad to see him with the Angels. Their order should be tough.

I'm gonna say the Rangers and Cubs are the faves to land Fielder at this time. Mariners are probably third in the mix.

The Cubs only jumped into the Pujols thing - in my opinion - to see if they could drive up the price per year and pay the Cards back for interviewing Chicago legend Ryne Sandberg for their managerial job.

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martini wrote: I'm gonna say the Rangers and Cubs are the faves to land Fielder at this time. Mariners are probably third in the mix.

The Cubs only jumped into the Pujols thing - in my opinion - to see if they could drive up the price per year and pay the Cards back for interviewing Chicago legend Ryne Sandberg for their managerial job.

Agree.  I think, after what they've said, the Cardinals can't get into a bidding war for Fielder, as they're just replacing Albert with a slightly younger, slightly slower model. If they can get him for reasonable money though...

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martini wrote: The Ultimate Sin wrote: I bet Prince will get a contract similar to Pujols. Less but comparable money similar number of years.


The Angels will be saddled with this contract, but sometimes guys get unhappy and ask out of contracts, some times (Arod Texas) you can deal the guy and pay a hunk of the contract. The Halos aren't completely locked into this deal.

I'm glad to see him with the Angels. Their order should be tough.

I'm gonna say the Rangers and Cubs are the faves to land Fielder at this time. Mariners are probably third in the mix.

The Cubs only jumped into the Pujols thing - in my opinion - to see if they could drive up the price per year and pay the Cards back for interviewing Chicago legend Ryne Sandberg for their managerial job.

Well the Cubs should have offered Sandberg a job in some capacity if they didn't want him interviewing with division rivals.

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Incidentally Stingmark, all the MLB players are overpaid.  I remember when Sandberg was signed to a record deal that made him the highest paid player with $7 million per year.  eE was the highest paid player for all of a year when someone signed for $8 million/yr

Hell I could live on what they pay as a minimum in MLB

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mike3775 wrote:
Incidentally Stingmark, all the MLB players are overpaid.  I remember when Sandberg was signed to a record deal that made him the highest paid player with $7 million per year.  eE was the highest paid player for all of a year when someone signed for $8 million/yr

Hell I could live on what they pay as a minimum in MLB


No arguement there. But, blame the owners Alot of you guys put these deals on the owners, I agree they're all overpaid. But, theyre just taking the deals/$$$ the owners are giving them.

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If the owners all decided to say "we refuse to pay more than $10 million/yr to anyone" the union would file collusion charges and would probably win.

Everyone says that the owners themselves caused this, but it is not true, because the owners once did try to reign in spending, and they lost when the union filed a collusion case

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mike3775 wrote:
If the owners all decided to say "we refuse to pay more than $10 million/yr to anyone" the union would file collusion charges and would probably win.

Everyone says that the owners themselves caused this, but it is not true, because the owners once did try to reign in spending, and they lost when the union filed a collusion case


Many here cite blame on the owners for the huge contracts Mike, both parties are guilty imo. I think theyre all overpaid, but the minute someone says that, people here get all bent outta shape and say " its the owners fault....blah blah blah. Dont blame the players". Youve just proven why its not the owners fault.

Last edited on Sun Dec 11th, 2011 05:44 pm by stingmark

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stingmark wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
If the owners all decided to say "we refuse to pay more than $10 million/yr to anyone" the union would file collusion charges and would probably win.

Everyone says that the owners themselves caused this, but it is not true, because the owners once did try to reign in spending, and they lost when the union filed a collusion case


Many here cite blame on the owners for the huge contracts Mike, both parties are guilty imo. I think theyre all overpaid, but the minute someone says that, people here get all bent outta shape and say " its the owners fault....blah blah blah. Dont blame the players". Youve just proven why its not the owners fault.


The difference is they conspired not to pay guys their market value and got caught. That's not the players fault. Again that's the owners fault. They were too stupid to be fiscally responsible, so they conspired, and made it very obvious, and got caught.

If teams quit bidding against each for middle of the road guys the salaries would come down across the board. The stars are always going to get the big money, but when guys throw 10 Mil at a middle reliever it fucks up the whole salary schedule.

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Everyone is making a shedload of money out of the game, so as the players are the ones generating it, they should be rewarded appropriately. If there was less money in the game, then the players should be paid less. Seems simple.

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Famous Mortimer wrote: Everyone is making a shedload of money out of the game, so as the players are the ones generating it, they should be rewarded appropriately. If there was less money in the game, then the players should be paid less. Seems simple.
Its gonna happen sooner or later where even the rich fans say enough is enough and skip games.

I got to that point in 06 when the White Sox raised ticket prices after winning the world series, after that, I never go to games much, and when I do, its only with friends and not family for the most part to save money

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I completely agree.

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Pujols wife sure isn't helping him right now


Albert Pujols' wife Deidre, in an interview with a radio station with ties to the former St. Louis Cardinals slugger, said the couple was prepared to take less money to stay in St. Louis, but were greatly disappointed when the team initially offered him a five-year deal.
Thursday, Albert Pujols signed a 10-year, $254 million offer with the Los Angeles Angels that contained no deferred money, as well as a 10-year personal services contract following that deal. The Cardinals' last offer to Pujols was for 10 years and $210 million, with $30 million deferred.
"The offer that people have seen on television I want to tell you what, listeners especially, had that offer been given to us with a guarantee, we would have the (Cardinals) bird on our back," Deidre Pujols told 99.1 Joy FM, a St. Louis-area Christian station that received some of its initial funding from Albert Pujols.
Deidre Pujols, speaking with interviewer Sandi Brown, who is her friend, said the couple initially had no plans to ever leave St. Louis or the Cardinals, the only team the first baseman had ever played for.
"When it all came down, I was mad. I was mad at God because I felt like all the signs that had been played out through the baseball field, our foundation, our restaurant, the Down Syndrome Center, my relationships, my home, my family close," Deidre Pujols told the station. "I mean, we had no reason, not one reason, to want to leave. People were deceived by the numbers."
She indicated the key moment was the Cardinals' initial offer of five years and $130 million.
"When you have somebody say 'We want you to be a Cardinal for life' and only offer you a five-year deal, it kind of confused us," Deidre Pujols said. "Well, we got over that insult and felt like Albert had given so much of himself to baseball and into the community ... we didn't want to go through this again."
Deidre Pujols told the station the negative reaction in St. Louis over her husband's decision to sign with the Angels has been striking.
"Albert has never lied. People are like 'Oh, we thought we knew who he was.' Well, we thought we knew who they were," she told the station.
"The city of St. Louis has absolutely been deceived and I have never seen hatred spread so fast and I understand why," she added. "Let me say that Albert and I never, not one time, ever made plans to leave this city."
Deidre Pujols also said she had no ill will toward the Cardinals or owner Bill DeWitt and that she understands the fans' frustration with her husband's decision.
"It's just like God," she said at the end of the interview, "to put us on a team called the Angels."



Insulted over a 5 yr $130 million deal at his age(which is rumored to be older than stated at that)?

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The idea that someone who claims to be humble, working for God, completely committed to staying in St. Louis, would be insulted by being offered $130 million for 5 years work is the worst of it, I think.

 

The thread running through the statements made by both sides is that Pujols wanted a certain level of money, and didn't care who gave it to him. If he'd genuinely wanted to stay a Cardinal, he would have done, and indeed said as much a few years ago. It's nowhere near as bad as the LeBron bullshit, but he's absolutely not covering himself in glory with the things he's saying.


If he just said "I feel I'm worth X dollars, and St. Louis couldn't give it to me, and it makes me sad to leave the team, but I have to go where the money is", I wouldn't have felt much better about it, but he'd be being honest, rather than this crap that everyone can see through anyway.

Last edited on Tue Dec 13th, 2011 04:07 pm by Famous Mortimer

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I can't blame any athlete for taking as much money as he can,if the owners are willing to pay it,as your whole career can end in an instant.

What I do have a beef with is when guys say things like they want to "play here forever" then they turn right around and leave to somewhere else over money,after they have allready made enough millions of $$$ to last several lifetimes.

John Stockton said he allways wanted t play for the Utah Jazz and that he would never leave,and actually turned down offers for bigger money elsewhere to finish out his career there,but that's a super rare thing.

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katook wrote: I can't blame any athlete for taking as much money as he can,if the owners are willing to pay it,as your whole career can end in an instant.

What I do have a beef with is when guys say things like they want to "play here forever" then they turn right around and leave to somewhere else over money,after they have allready made enough millions of $$$ to last several lifetimes.

John Stockton said he allways wanted t play for the Utah Jazz and that he would never leave,and actually turned down offers for bigger money elsewhere to finish out his career there,but that's a super rare thing.
I dont blame them either, but will call them sell outs if they say what you mentioned, like Pujols did.  Pujols deserves the scorn he has been getting lately since the announcement.  His wife did him zero favors with her comments at all.

I have always had respect for guys like Tony Gywnn and Stockton, who did turn down offers to go elsewhere during their careers to remain where they played at.  There isn't many players left like that. 

I can't think of many players right now who have been on the same team for at least 10 years honestly and who are still on those teams

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Too bad the twunt didnt know how things work. The Cards offered a higher per year value. 26 million instead of the 19-20 of the previous offer. Then they went to 10 yrs and 220. I guess the Cards were just supposed to hand over a blank check??

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Chrisstlouis wrote: Too bad the twunt didnt know how things work. The Cards offered a higher per year value. 26 million instead of the 19-20 of the previous offer. Then they went to 10 yrs and 220. I guess the Cards were just supposed to hand over a blank check??

And also to pay him some post-career "ambassadors" contract, which seems to me the sort of thing retired players have done since time immemorial for free? If you can get it, then fair enough I suppose, but I'm sure the Cardinals would have offered him something towards the end of his career.

 

I don't want to dislike Pujols, and indeed in the days immediately after the announcement I didn't. But this is a perfect example of how not to spin something after the event. When your fans are on shitty wages and paying a fortune (relatively) to enter the ballpark, calling $26 million a year an "insult" is just going to piss them off.

Last edited on Wed Dec 14th, 2011 08:24 am by Famous Mortimer

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Famous Mortimer wrote: Chrisstlouis wrote: Too bad the twunt didnt know how things work. The Cards offered a higher per year value. 26 million instead of the 19-20 of the previous offer. Then they went to 10 yrs and 220. I guess the Cards were just supposed to hand over a blank check??

  I don't want to dislike Pujols, and indeed in the days immediately after the announcement I didn't. But this is a perfect example of how not to spin something after the event. When your fans are on shitty wages and paying a fortune (relatively) to enter the ballpark, calling $26 million a year an "insult" is just going to piss them off.
He has to feed his family

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Bump.

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clawmaster wrote:
Bump.


Why ?????

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It had to be bumped the Fielder contract was never revisited.

What did Prince get?
Who won the debate.

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Pujols has been a bust for the Angels and is now probably done for the year with a foot injury, and the Cardinals are in first place with the best record in the NL.

So I guess St. Louis won.

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sek69 wrote: Pujols has been a bust for the Angels and is now probably done for the year with a foot injury, and the Cardinals are in first place with the best record in the NL.

So I guess St. Louis won.

That's why CH.

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The Ultimate Sin wrote:
It had to be bumped the Fielder contract was never revisited.

What did Prince get?
Who won the debate.


On January 26, 2012 Fielder agreed to a nine-year, $214 million contract with the Detroit Tigers.

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stingmark wrote:
TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.


Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder? Not worth it imo. Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill, it could happen though. Just dont see it, imo.

Alot of folks thought Pujols would get a $200+ mill deal, 3-4 teams offered hkm $220 and he turned them all down. Not unreasonable to believe hed get Arod type money? I thought atleast $240 would have to do it. Guys better than AFraud, he got almost as much, which was pretty much right in line.

Let's revisit this when Prince gets his deal.


Kinda proves my point though, that hes not worth an 8yr $150+ mill deal? If he were, you can be certain hed have been signed. 8yrs is too long. From what I remember hearing, not a single team offered him more than a 5-6 yr deal.

But, we'll revisit it later.


Sure does prove your point.

On January 26, 2012 Fielder agreed to a nine-year, $214 million contract with the Detroit Tigers.

Last edited on Mon Jul 29th, 2013 11:22 pm by The Ultimate Sin

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The Ultimate Sin wrote: stingmark wrote:
TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.


Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder? Not worth it imo. Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill, it could happen though. Just dont see it, imo.

Alot of folks thought Pujols would get a $200+ mill deal, 3-4 teams offered hkm $220 and he turned them all down. Not unreasonable to believe hed get Arod type money? I thought atleast $240 would have to do it. Guys better than AFraud, he got almost as much, which was pretty much right in line.

Let's revisit this when Prince gets his deal.


Kinda proves my point though, that hes not worth an 8yr $150+ mill deal? If he were, you can be certain hed have been signed. 8yrs is too long. From what I remember hearing, not a single team offered him more than a 5-6 yr deal.

But, we'll revisit it later.


Sure does prove your point.

On January 26, 2012 Fielder agreed to a nine-year, $214 million contract with the Detroit Tigers.


(Yay...Vortex). My point before was(and still is), Fielder isn't worth $108 Mill, nor is he worth what Detroit paid him. IMO, he's done nothing to warrant said contract from the Tigers. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's ok.

HE STILL DOESN'T DESERVE WHAT HE GOT, now or then. The Tigers will have trouble in about 4 yrs trying to trade him, who other than say the Yankees can absorb that kind of contract? Oh wait, I'm sure you'll list 5 other teams willing to do so, right? of course.

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stingmark wrote:
The Ultimate Sin wrote: stingmark wrote:
TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
stingmark wrote: TXM wrote:
Married Jo wrote: Give Prince Fielder a 5 year, $100 million dollar deal, problem solved...
I don't envision Fielder signing for half the years and less than half the coin Pujols got.


Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right. No way hes worth anywhere near the Pujols deal, sorry, I just dont see it.
No one thought Pujols was going to get 254 million, but he did. That number raises the bar substantially for Prince. He's not going to get Pujols money, but with Scott Boras representing him, an 8-year, 150 million dollar deal sounds about right.


Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder? Not worth it imo. Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill, it could happen though. Just dont see it, imo.

Alot of folks thought Pujols would get a $200+ mill deal, 3-4 teams offered hkm $220 and he turned them all down. Not unreasonable to believe hed get Arod type money? I thought atleast $240 would have to do it. Guys better than AFraud, he got almost as much, which was pretty much right in line.

Let's revisit this when Prince gets his deal.


Kinda proves my point though, that hes not worth an 8yr $150+ mill deal? If he were, you can be certain hed have been signed. 8yrs is too long. From what I remember hearing, not a single team offered him more than a 5-6 yr deal.

But, we'll revisit it later.


Sure does prove your point.

On January 26, 2012 Fielder agreed to a nine-year, $214 million contract with the Detroit Tigers.


(Yay...Vortex). My point before was(and still is), Fielder isn't worth $108 Mill, nor is he worth what Detroit paid him. IMO, he's done nothing to warrant said contract from the Tigers. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's ok.

HE STILL DOESN'T DESERVE WHAT HE GOT, now or then. The Tigers will have trouble in about 4 yrs trying to trade him, who other than say the Yankees can absorb that kind of contract? Oh wait, I'm sure you'll list 5 other teams willing to do so, right? of course.


But of course, the thread clearly showed that you thought he wouldn't get anywhere near the deal he got, so you were wrong, regardless of your opinion on his "worth. But I wouldn't have expected anythingless . Welcome back, stingy!

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Oddly enough, Pujols contract is only the SECOND worse long term high-pay contract on this roster.  Couple that with the worst bullpen in all of MLB.  Not a great time to be an Angels fan.

I hate baseball.

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stingmark wrote:


My point before was(and still is), Fielder isn't worth $108 Mill, nor is he worth what Detroit paid him.


Oh, that was your point. I thought your point was he wouldn't get more than 5 years 100-120 million. I was confused because you said it repeatedly.

Like here... from your many conversations with GMs at the winter meetings...

"Alot of the folks at the winter meetings, kept saying he wouldnt get more than 5yrs & $100-$120 million anyway, which imo, is about right."


Or here when when you said those offers, like the one he signed weren't there for him.


"Supposedly, those kind of offers just werent there for Fielder. Doubt many would be willing to ante up that kind of deal for Fielder?"

Or here where you say it a 3rd time...

"Doubt he sees any offers past 5-6yrs and $120mill."

Or here when you said it a 4th time...

"From what I remember hearing, not a single team offered him more than a 5-6 yr deal."


So you can see why we're confused and thought the point you were attempting to make was the one you kept fucking typing over and over and over and over. You know, the one that was completely fucking wrong, backed by "facts" you made up, from conversations you never had at the winter meetings you never attended.

Last edited on Wed Jul 31st, 2013 12:12 am by The Ultimate Sin

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stingmark wrote:
he's done nothing to warrant said contract from the Tigers. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's ok.


Ask Triple Crown Winner Miguel Cabrera what he thinks of having Prince hitting behind him. I'm sure he would have put up the same numbers with Delmon Young and Victor Martinez in the 4 spot.

I know you say you are a Tiger fan, but it's like you've never actually seen them play.

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The Ultimate Sin wrote:
stingmark wrote:
he's done nothing to warrant said contract from the Tigers. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's ok.


Ask Triple Crown Winner Miguel Cabrera what he thinks of having Prince hitting behind him. I'm sure he would have put up the same numbers with Delmon Young and Victor Martinez in the 4 spot.

I know you say you are a Tiger fan, but it's like you've never actually seen them play.


Stingmark passionately arguing things that he's not really familiar with? What an outageous notion! Are you smoking something?

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When A-Rod gets the lifetime ban which is probably coming, Pujols will be the poster boy for bad contracts. I still say, accept that 5 year 130 mill contract from St. Louis, become the second coming of Stan Musial and set every Cardinals record there is to set, if you're near any of the big records sign another contract at the end of the 5 years and enjoy a blissful retirement as king of the city.

Instead, he's going to be looked at by angry Anaheim fans as a joke in a couple of years, and he'll have no-one to blame but his own greed for a few extra million.

Prince Fielder's contract is nowhere near as bad as Albert's.

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You can probably argue the Tigers overpaid for Prince, but at least he's playing and producing. Hell, I read he has the longest consecutive games played streak in MLB which is kind of amazing for a fat guy.

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sek69 wrote:
You can probably argue the Tigers overpaid for Prince, but at least he's playing and producing. Hell, I read he has the longest consecutive games played streak in MLB which is kind of amazing for a fat guy.

In his rookie year he dogged it on an infield ground out, and Robin Yount grabbed him by the collar and told him to run out every ball he hit. He has ever since.

If you get to see Prince play every day it's pretty amazing how hard he plays. It's quite refreshing. His triple in the All-Star game is a testament to that.

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As the Principal noted in the 2014 baseball thread, Pujols hit home run number 500 tonight. I love bumping this thread up so we can look at what people said at the time he signed with the Angels.

As an aside, the Tigers loved big, fat Prince Fielder so much they traded him to Texas for Ian Kinsler.

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Pujois must've received a new batch of undercover HGH.

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Sure does prove your point.

On January 26, 2012 Fielder agreed to a nine-year, $214 million contract with the Detroit Tigers

Yep, And apparently during the offseason, The Tigers ALSO "didn't think he was worth $270 some odd million dollars they paid him", or they wouldn't have traded him.

 

Last I looked, Fatty Fielder was playing for the Rangers, and that sorta/kinda proves what I said above that teams didn't think he's worth that much. Detroit did, then they came to their senses and realized he was a flop, and(thankfully) traded him off to TX for Ian Kinsler, and in the process, saved over $70 million dollars. Maybe TX does, but they also thought ARod was worth $250+ million, and they didn't last long with that mindset. Now Detroit is off the hook from Fielders deal.

I bet the Nats are second guessing giving Werth all that money too.

Did you see your man Pujols hit his 500th today? You being an admitted Angels fan, you should be ecstatic. How's Bobby Grich doing these days?

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clawmaster wrote: As the Principal noted in the 2014 baseball thread, Pujols hit home run number 500 tonight. I love bumping this thread up so we can look at what people said at the time he signed with the Angels.

As an aside, the Tigers loved big, fat Prince Fielder so much they traded him to Texas for Ian Kinsler.


I sort of assumed he'd underperform and be in a worse position in the city than he would have been had he signed a shorter contract in St. Louis. This milestone appears to have given him a bump, but I still reckon I'll be right (righter than Stingmark was, anyway) - and I'd rather have Matt Adams on 1B than Albert in 2014.

 

 



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