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Principal_Raditch



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Four games left, does Cabrera take the Triple Crown?

Right now he's .327 to  Mike Trout's .321. I'd say he's probably got that locked up unless he goes 0-16

Rbi's he's 136 to Hamilton's 125. That's done

So it's HR's. He and Hamilton both have 43, Edwin Encarnacion has 42.

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He has a shot, but I don't think so

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He'll win Batting Average and Runs Batted In for sure. He has a decent chance to win Home Runs. I think he'll win the Triple Crown. 

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Since he is facing KC's pitching staff I say yes

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Benlen wrote: Since he is facing KC's pitching staff I say yeswell shit, I think he may do it then.

It will be interesting to see who gets the MVP award though, as the triple crown is a big deal, but overall I think Trout is better, but he will also get the Rookie of the year award

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mike3775 wrote: Benlen wrote: Since he is facing KC's pitching staff I say yeswell shit, I think he may do it then.

It will be interesting to see who gets the MVP award though, as the triple crown is a big deal, but overall I think Trout is better, but he will also get the Rookie of the year award

If I had a vote, I'd go with Trout... he seems to be faster and a better fielder IMO

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stone2k wrote:
mike3775 wrote: Benlen wrote: Since he is facing KC's pitching staff I say yeswell shit, I think he may do it then.

It will be interesting to see who gets the MVP award though, as the triple crown is a big deal, but overall I think Trout is better, but he will also get the Rookie of the year award

If I had a vote, I'd go with Trout... he seems to be faster and a better fielder IMO


Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.

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stingmark wrote:

Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


Are you apologizing for your blatant homerism ???? And why the hell did you throw BJ Surhoff into your argument ???? Do you realize that he averaged a little over 5.5 HRs and 61.25 RBIs his first 7 full seasons ????

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clawmaster wrote:
He'll win Batting Average and Runs Batted In for sure. He has a decent chance to win Home Runs. I think he'll win the Triple Crown. 


What's the ruling if he ends up tied in one of the 3 categories ???? Would he still win the Triple Crown or does he need to be the sole leader in all 3 categories ????Personally I don't want him to win as I like the fact that Yaz is still the last guy to win the Triple Crown.

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CanadianHorseman wrote:
clawmaster wrote:
He'll win Batting Average and Runs Batted In for sure. He has a decent chance to win Home Runs. I think he'll win the Triple Crown. 


What's the ruling if he ends up tied in one of the 3 categories ???? Would he still win the Triple Crown or does he need to be the sole leader in all 3 categories ????Personally I don't want him to win as I like the fact that Yaz is still the last guy to win the Triple Crown.


If there was a tie, He would still win the Triple Crown.

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stingmark wrote:
stone2k wrote:
mike3775 wrote: Benlen wrote: Since he is facing KC's pitching staff I say yeswell shit, I think he may do it then.

It will be interesting to see who gets the MVP award though, as the triple crown is a big deal, but overall I think Trout is better, but he will also get the Rookie of the year award

If I had a vote, I'd go with Trout... he seems to be faster and a better fielder IMO


Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


How in the blue Hell is the jury still out on Him. Oh yeah, He's still only 21 yrs old. He will probably win a Gold Glove also. Jury is still out on Trout? I know that You are a Fucking Moron, but lets get real. Here are His stats.

Games 136 Avg .321 Hits 175 Runs 127 HR 30 RBI's 80 SB 48

Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2012 08:13 am by freebirdsforever2001

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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: stingmark wrote:
stone2k wrote:
mike3775 wrote: Benlen wrote: Since he is facing KC's pitching staff I say yeswell shit, I think he may do it then.

It will be interesting to see who gets the MVP award though, as the triple crown is a big deal, but overall I think Trout is better, but he will also get the Rookie of the year award

If I had a vote, I'd go with Trout... he seems to be faster and a better fielder IMO


Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


How in the blue Hell is the jury still out on Him. Oh yeah, He's still only 21 yrs old. He will probably win a Gold Glove also. Jury is still out on Trout? I know that You are a Fucking Moron, but lets get real. Here are His stats.

Games 136 Avg .321 Hits 175 Runs 127 HR 30 RBI's 80 SB 48

SIDE NOTE:  I love when a sentence starts, "I know that you are a fucking moron, but...".  I'm going to try to work that into everyday conversation.

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Cabrera does have the advantage of being an alcoholic and convicted criminal though. That must mean something to the voters.

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Trout became the first rookie to be a member of the 30/30 club

If he had been in the majors from opening day, he probably be a member of the 40/40 club

stingmark



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CanadianHorseman wrote:
stingmark wrote:

Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


Are you apologizing for your blatant homerism ???? And why the hell did you throw BJ Surhoff into your argument ???? Do you realize that he averaged a little over 5.5 HRs and 61.25 RBIs his first 7 full seasons ????


I brought Surhoff/Seitzer & others into it because they were 1 yr wonders more or less. So far, Trout is that way. His stats arent there to win it, my opinion, it differs from yours, thats how difference of opinions works.

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:48 pm by stingmark

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freebirdsforever2001 wrote:
stingmark wrote:
stone2k wrote:
mike3775 wrote: Benlen wrote: Since he is facing KC's pitching staff I say yeswell shit, I think he may do it then.

It will be interesting to see who gets the MVP award though, as the triple crown is a big deal, but overall I think Trout is better, but he will also get the Rookie of the year award

If I had a vote, I'd go with Trout... he seems to be faster and a better fielder IMO
[/
Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


How in the blue Hell is the jury still out on Him. Oh yeah, He's still only 21 yrs old. He will probably win a Gold Glove also. Jury is still out on Trout? I know that You are a Fucking Moron, but lets get real. Here are His stats.

Games 136 Avg .321 Hits 175 Runs 127 HR 30 RBI's 80 SB 48



Thank you for your opinion, I know you're a fucking moron as well. You also had issues w/Verlander winning the MVP too. Of course you would, you're a fucking moron. Imo, a rookie wont win it. Of course you're a moron & you don't realize that.....but, not surprising considering the source. Maybe you should stick to talking about hockey.

Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2012 07:23 pm by stingmark

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stingmark wrote: CanadianHorseman wrote:
stingmark wrote:

Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


Are you apologizing for your blatant homerism ???? And why the hell did you throw BJ Surhoff into your argument ???? Do you realize that he averaged a little over 5.5 HRs and 61.25 RBIs his first 7 full seasons ????


I brought Surhoff/Seitzer & others into it because they were 1 yr wonders more or less. So far, Trout is that way. His stats arent there, my opinion, it differs from yours, thats how difference of opinions works.

A 30/30 guy who wasn't brought up until the last week of April, who's batting .320 and has a .950 OPS, and his stats aren't there?  Seriously?

What would satisfy you, a 100/100 guy?  200/200? 

This is why people rank on you.

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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote:
stingmark wrote: CanadianHorseman wrote:
stingmark wrote:

Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


Are you apologizing for your blatant homerism ???? And why the hell did you throw BJ Surhoff into your argument ???? Do you realize that he averaged a little over 5.5 HRs and 61.25 RBIs his first 7 full seasons ????


I brought Surhoff/Seitzer & others into it because they were 1 yr wonders more or less. So far, Trout is that way. His stats arent there, my opinion, it differs from yours, thats how difference of opinions works.

A 30/30 guy who wasn't brought up until the last week of April, who's batting .320 and has a .950 OPS, and his stats aren't there?  Seriously?

What would satisfy you, a 100/100 guy?  200/200? 

This is why people rank on you.


You have such issues with my opinion, I dont think he wins it. He had a great year, he wont win it, get over it.
It helps Cabrera if the Tigers win the div & get to the playoffs, he'll be seens the guy who was a catalyst for that. How his team does also plays a role I think in the voting.

I dont give 5 fucks if people rank on me.......

Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2012 07:29 pm by stingmark

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stingmark wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote:
stingmark wrote: CanadianHorseman wrote:
stingmark wrote:

Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


Are you apologizing for your blatant homerism ???? And why the hell did you throw BJ Surhoff into your argument ???? Do you realize that he averaged a little over 5.5 HRs and 61.25 RBIs his first 7 full seasons ????


I brought Surhoff/Seitzer & others into it because they were 1 yr wonders more or less. So far, Trout is that way. His stats arent there, my opinion, it differs from yours, thats how difference of opinions works.

A 30/30 guy who wasn't brought up until the last week of April, who's batting .320 and has a .950 OPS, and his stats aren't there?  Seriously?

What would satisfy you, a 100/100 guy?  200/200? 

This is why people rank on you.


You have such issues with my opinion, I dont think he wins it. He had a great year, he wont win it, get over it.

I dont give 5 fucks if oeople rank on me.......

The irony is, I agree with you...if Cabrera wins the Triple Crown, I say you have to give it to him regardless.  Even if he doesn't win it, I'd probably still give it to him.  He's had a fabulous year.  But to say Trout's stats aren't there is ridiculous.

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The tigers though play in the worst division in baseball. How can you not win a division that has only 2 teams over 71 wins.

stingmark



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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote:
stingmark wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote:
stingmark wrote: CanadianHorseman wrote:
stingmark wrote:

Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


Are you apologizing for your blatant homerism ???? And why the hell did you throw BJ Surhoff into your argument ???? Do you realize that he averaged a little over 5.5 HRs and 61.25 RBIs his first 7 full seasons ????


I brought Surhoff/Seitzer & others into it because they were 1 yr wonders more or less. So far, Trout is that way. His stats arent there, my opinion, it differs from yours, thats how difference of opinions works.

A 30/30 guy who wasn't brought up until the last week of April, who's batting .320 and has a .950 OPS, and his stats aren't there?  Seriously?

What would satisfy you, a 100/100 guy?  200/200? 

This is why people rank on you.


You have such issues with my opinion, I dont think he wins it. He had a great year, he wont win it, get over it.

I dont give 5 fucks if oeople rank on me.......

The irony is, I agree with you...if Cabrera wins the Triple Crown, I say you have to give it to him regardless.  Even if he doesn't win it, I'd probably still give it to him.  He's had a fabulous year.  But to say Trout's stats aren't there is ridiculous.



Never said he had a shit year, I said I didnt think he would win it. He's had a great year, but not as great as Cabrera.......of course that's just my opinion & because it is(& it doesnt fall in line w/ what your opinions are), people seem to dislike that. Question was asked who we thought would win the TC. I gave my answer, it wasn't liked(what else is new). Cabrera playing for the Tigs has nothing to do with it, he has the numbers, up to whoever to decide.

Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2012 07:55 pm by stingmark

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You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

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stingmark wrote:
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote:
stingmark wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote:
stingmark wrote: CanadianHorseman wrote:
stingmark wrote:

Trout: Ron Kittle/ Bj Surhoff/Kevin Seitzer/etc.

I'd go w/ Cabrera & if they win the Central, he'll almost certainly win iy imo, as he's been a major reason why. Plus, guys a consistant .300 hitter. Jurys still out in Trout, great year, but not triple crown year, sorry.


Are you apologizing for your blatant homerism ???? And why the hell did you throw BJ Surhoff into your argument ???? Do you realize that he averaged a little over 5.5 HRs and 61.25 RBIs his first 7 full seasons ????


I brought Surhoff/Seitzer & others into it because they were 1 yr wonders more or less. So far, Trout is that way. His stats arent there, my opinion, it differs from yours, thats how difference of opinions works.

A 30/30 guy who wasn't brought up until the last week of April, who's batting .320 and has a .950 OPS, and his stats aren't there?  Seriously?

What would satisfy you, a 100/100 guy?  200/200? 

This is why people rank on you.


You have such issues with my opinion, I dont think he wins it. He had a great year, he wont win it, get over it.

I dont give 5 fucks if oeople rank on me.......

The irony is, I agree with you...if Cabrera wins the Triple Crown, I say you have to give it to him regardless.  Even if he doesn't win it, I'd probably still give it to him.  He's had a fabulous year.  But to say Trout's stats aren't there is ridiculous.



Never said he had a shit year, I said I didnt think he would win it. He's had a great year, but not as great as Cabrera.......of course that's just my opinion & because it is(& it doesnt fall in line w/ what your opinions are), people seem to dislike that. Question was asked who we thought would win the TC. I gave my answer, it wasn't liked(what else is new). Cabrera playing for the Tigs has nothing to do with it, he has the numbers, up to whoever to decide.


Yes You did, You said that the jury was still out on Trout. Don't back track now when People call You out on Your retardedness. You really need to look back at what You wrote when You answer somebody on a comment on one of Your previous posts. I still stand by the fact that a Pitcher should not win the MVP, Verlander or anyone else. That's why Pitchers have the CY Young award.

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Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

Do any of the voters really look at defense, though?

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khawk wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

Do any of the voters really look at defense, though?

Sure, some do.  Barry Larkin won the MVP in 1995 based almost solely on defense and stolen bases, and Trout is having a much better year with defense and speed just as good.  It doesn't happen often, but it happens.

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srossi wrote:
khawk wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

Do any of the voters really look at defense, though?

Sure, some do.  Barry Larkin won the MVP in 1995 based almost solely on defense and stolen bases, and Trout is having a much better year with defense and speed just as good.  It doesn't happen often, but it happens.


Larkin won but the Reds also finished in first.

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Cabrera homered tonight.

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srossi wrote: khawk wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

Do any of the voters really look at defense, though?

Sure, some do.  Barry Larkin won the MVP in 1995 based almost solely on defense and stolen bases, and Trout is having a much better year with defense and speed just as good.  It doesn't happen often, but it happens.


Also Jimmy Rollins in 2007 when Matt Holliday and Prince Fielder had much better power numbers.

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Mike Trout 4 for 4 tonight.

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clawmaster wrote: Mike Trout 4 for 4 tonight.
MVP...MVP...MVP...

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With Detroit clinching the AL Central and the Angels being eliminated, more votes will be going to Cabrera now.


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mike3775 wrote:
With Detroit clinching the AL Central and the Angels being eliminated, more votes will be going to Cabrera now.




What I said earlier. Trout had a heckuva year, but he won't win it.

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If Cabrera wins the Triple Crown he will become only the 15th player to ever do so. Two guys Hornsby and Williams won it twice for 17 total seasons that a TC has happened.  38 players have joined the 30-30 club.  Many players are multiple time members. Hell Bobby Bonds did it five times.  60 times it has happened in history. 

I have been impressed with Trout.  I think the kid has the natural talent and work ethic to be special.  With that said, any of you that purport to be baseball fans, while saying his season was more impressive is astounding.  If you go by numbers alone, Cabrera's feat is more rare.  Spare me the whole rare does not mean better junk either.  BA, HR, and RBIs are not some obscure stat created by ESPN to make something seem so much more epic than it really is.  Remove the emotion from it and look strictly at the numbers.  Trout is more exciting to watch, but that alone should not give him the award.

On another note, baseball has been littered with one year wonders.  It is not Trout's talent or work ethic that could derail his career, but injuries can happen. Look at Dale Alexander as proof of a wunderkind that had his career ended early because of injury.  I know medical science has  progressed tremendously since his career, but there is precedent there.  I know not the same case but look at how badly Ken Griffey Jr.'s career tailed off once injuries started piling up.  Trout has had one of the greatest rookie years in history, of that, there is no doubt.  I don't see him being the next Joe Charboneau, but sometimes guys tease and tantalize and then fall off.(For clarity I know Trout's numbers are way better just tossing a name out there of a supposed baseball savant that was a flash in the pan)

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If Cabrera wins the TC, I would vote for him.  But it's no guarantee if history is any indication.  Ted Williams won the TC twice and didn't win the MVP, and Lou Gehrig and Chuck Klein are 2 other TC winners who didn't win the MVP.  You can put an asterisk besides Klein's name though because he finished 2nd to Carl Hubbell before there was a Cy Young award. 

Last edited on Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 02:57 pm by srossi

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6 guys have won the MVP award while having a 30-30 season so that alone is also not a lock for the MVP award. 

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Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.

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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote: 6 guys have won the MVP award while having a 30-30 season so that alone is also not a lock for the MVP award. 
 
Trout had a 30-40 season from the leadoff spot.

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If Cabrera leads in all 3 catagories after game 161, will he sit out the last game ?
The Tigers have already clinched.

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lobo316 wrote: If Cabrera leads in all 3 catagories after game 161, will he sit out the last game ?
The Tigers have already clinched.


I wouldn't as I'm sure there are some voters that would take that as just enough to swing their vote to Trout. I have no proof of this, just a feeling.

My take is Trout is having an awesome year but they will give the MVP to Cabrera. The thinking will be (IMO) that Trout will have many years like this one coming where he could conceivably win the MVP vote, and Cabrera's Triple Crown year is too rare not to recognize.

 

Last edited on Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 04:54 pm by khawk

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lobo316 wrote: If Cabrera leads in all 3 catagories after game 161, will he sit out the last game ?

If he does, Ted Williams will rise from the dead, reattach his head to his body, and cut Cabrera's dick off with a dull butter knife.

Or that's the theory, anyway.

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lobo316 wrote: If Cabrera leads in all 3 catagories after game 161, will he sit out the last game ?
The Tigers have already clinched.


Ted Williams set the precedent decades ago on not being a pussy to protect your numbers.  It would reflect very poorly on him and absolutely hurt his MVP cred. 

Edit: And I see DFG was thinking the same thing at the same time.

Last edited on Tue Oct 2nd, 2012 05:02 pm by srossi

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srossi wrote: Edit: And I see DFG was thinking the same thing at the same time.


Maybe, but I said it with much more pizzaz!

Chew on that, Yankee fan!!111

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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: Edit: And I see DFG was thinking the same thing at the same time.


Maybe, but I said it with much more pizzaz!

Chew on that, Yankee fan!!111

Chew on Ted's frozen head, beaneater.

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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote:
If Cabrera wins the Triple Crown he will become only the 15th player to ever do so. Two guys Hornsby and Williams won it twice for 17 total seasons that a TC has happened.  38 players have joined the 30-30 club.  Many players are multiple time members. Hell Bobby Bonds did it five times.  60 times it has happened in history. 

I have been impressed with Trout.  I think the kid has the natural talent and work ethic to be special.  With that said, any of you that purport to be baseball fans, while saying his season was more impressive is astounding.  If you go by numbers alone, Cabrera's feat is more rare.  Spare me the whole rare does not mean better junk either.  BA, HR, and RBIs are not some obscure stat created by ESPN to make something seem so much more epic than it really is.  Remove the emotion from it and look strictly at the numbers.  Trout is more exciting to watch, but that alone should not give him the award.

On another note, baseball has been littered with one year wonders.  It is not Trout's talent or work ethic that could derail his career, but injuries can happen. Look at Dale Alexander as proof of a wunderkind that had his career ended early because of injury.  I know medical science has  progressed tremendously since his career, but there is precedent there.  I know not the same case but look at how badly Ken Griffey Jr.'s career tailed off once injuries started piling up.  Trout has had one of the greatest rookie years in history, of that, there is no doubt.  I don't see him being the next Joe Charboneau, but sometimes guys tease and tantalize and then fall off.(For clarity I know Trout's numbers are way better just tossing a name out there of a supposed baseball savant that was a flash in the pan)



But what would Trouts numbers be if he didn't miss the first part of the season because he was still in the minors? I think it was Verducci who said if Trout had been on the opening day roster, his numbers would be almost the same as Cabrera

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mike3775 wrote: Road Warrior Yajuta wrote:
If Cabrera wins the Triple Crown he will become only the 15th player to ever do so. Two guys Hornsby and Williams won it twice for 17 total seasons that a TC has happened.  38 players have joined the 30-30 club.  Many players are multiple time members. Hell Bobby Bonds did it five times.  60 times it has happened in history. 

I have been impressed with Trout.  I think the kid has the natural talent and work ethic to be special.  With that said, any of you that purport to be baseball fans, while saying his season was more impressive is astounding.  If you go by numbers alone, Cabrera's feat is more rare.  Spare me the whole rare does not mean better junk either.  BA, HR, and RBIs are not some obscure stat created by ESPN to make something seem so much more epic than it really is.  Remove the emotion from it and look strictly at the numbers.  Trout is more exciting to watch, but that alone should not give him the award.

On another note, baseball has been littered with one year wonders.  It is not Trout's talent or work ethic that could derail his career, but injuries can happen. Look at Dale Alexander as proof of a wunderkind that had his career ended early because of injury.  I know medical science has  progressed tremendously since his career, but there is precedent there.  I know not the same case but look at how badly Ken Griffey Jr.'s career tailed off once injuries started piling up.  Trout has had one of the greatest rookie years in history, of that, there is no doubt.  I don't see him being the next Joe Charboneau, but sometimes guys tease and tantalize and then fall off.(For clarity I know Trout's numbers are way better just tossing a name out there of a supposed baseball savant that was a flash in the pan)



But what would Trouts numbers be if he didn't miss the first part of the season because he was still in the minors? I think it was Verducci who said if Trout had been on the opening day roster, his numbers would be almost the same as Cabrera
Not being rude but what his numbers would have been are immaterial for the AL MVP award.  He can only be judged by what he did in the Majors.  The fact he is even in the discussion shows how epic his rookie season has been. The whole projected stats has always been garbage to me.  Guys get hot and cold so to me it takes them being on the field to judge what they would  or would not have done.  He did cool off a fair bit towards the end of the year and that did impact the Angels not securing a wildcard spot.  You do realize he only had 6 RBIs in September right?   83 RBIs so far this Season warrants the AL MVP award? I like the kid, I really do and all I am doing is looking at his numbers.  A case can be made for him being in the hunt but IMO he should not win it. 

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thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Because Mike Trout is better than Alan Trammell. When Did Trammell hit 30 hr's? Never. When did he score 129 runs ? Never. Steal 48 bases? Never. Have a .564 Slugging? Never. Thus Mike Trout deserves to be MVP.

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Principal_Raditch wrote:
freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Because Mike Trout is better than Alan Trammell. When Did Trammell hit 30 hr's? Never. When did he score 129 runs ? Never. Steal 48 bases? Never. Have a .564 Slugging? Never. Thus Mike Trout deserves to be MVP.


But I thought that Alan Trammell is a HOF'er. Trout can't never ever be better then Him. Trout is the best non-pitching prospect in 25 years and that's a shoot, Brother.

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Road Warrior Yajuta wrote:  You do realize he only had 6 RBIs in September right?   83 RBIs so far this Season warrants the AL MVP award? I like the kid, I really do and all I am doing is looking at his numbers.  A case can be made for him being in the hunt but IMO he should not win it. 
RBIs are the least impressive stat of the big ones, because they rely on you having people on base when you come to bat. Leadoff hitters also would have less RBIs, just because they're leadoff guys.

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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Who proclaimed him to be the "best player in the majors", Off one season?

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:54 pm by stingmark

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Principal_Raditch wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote: thunderbolt wrote:
Cabrera will likely win the AL MVP, but, having seen him since his callup, Trout is by a large margin the best player in MLB.

Congrats to the Orioles and A's for winning the wildcard spots in the AL.  The Angels have no one to blame but themselves.


But Stingmark said that the jury is still out on Trout. How can He be the best player in the Majors?:tongue:

Because Mike Trout is better than Alan Trammell. When Did Trammell hit 30 hr's? Never. When did he score 129 runs ? Never. Steal 48 bases? Never. Have a .564 Slugging? Never. Thus Mike Trout deserves to be MVP.


(rollseyes), Trout can only hope he has a career for 20+ yrs in the bigs.....you guys are definitely drinking the koolaid. Let's see him do it consistantly for several years.

 

As for MVP, is Trout leading in RBI's/HR's, and so forth? then, NO, he doesn't deserve MVP. Plus, Trout's team didn't make the playoffs, thats hurts his mvp stock IMO. Had they made the playoffs, I'd probably say he had a very good chance to win it.

 

Leyland thinks Cabrera should be not only the first TC winner in 45 yrs, but also a lock for MVP.

 



Counting the four hits he had Monday, Cabrera had hits in six consecutive at-bats and is hitting .331. (Robin Buckson/Detroit News)





Kansas City, Mo. -- While the Tigers wait around to find out who they'll face in the playoffs, they're getting a nice historic diversion. They get to watch a teammate rip apart baseball's record book.

Miguel Cabrera isn't quite unstoppable, but he's about as close as anyone ever gets. He had two more hits and two more RBIs Tuesday night, and the Triple Crown is in his grasp. Not that he needed further confirmation of his greatness, but surely this would do it. Heck, it might even end that relentlessly tiring MVP debate.

Cabrera left after the fifth inning of a 4-2 loss to the Royals, and if he wants to rest today to secure the Triple Crown, there should be no argument. None. Manager Jim Leyland said he'd make the decision whether to play Cabrera, but he also has a bit of a luxury — all of the hitting contenders play before the Tigers game tonight.

If Cabrera has it wrapped up, he's absolutely entitled to watch the finale from the dugout.

"He's got 600-some at-bats, what else you want the kid to do?" Leyland said. "Enough's enough. I think he's proven himself no matter what I do. I'm gonna be in a no-win position in the eyes of some, but if he wants to play, he'll play."

This hasn't been seen in baseball in 45 years, which might explain why it's hard for some to fathom what we're witnessing. But truthfully, you could see it coming for a while, as Cabrera locked in during the tension of the division race. One day after the Tigers clinched, all the game's meaning was packed into three at-bats.

Cabrera blooped a single in the first inning, then lined a two-run single in the third, his sixth consecutive hit over two games. After he lofted a foul fly to right, he left with an AL-leading .331 batting average. His RBI total of 139 is way ahead. His 44 home runs were one ahead of Josh Hamilton.

Cabrera deferred to Leyland, but obviously, the decision will be his. He said he wants to play, but let's see what happens with Hamilton and Mike Trout beforehand.

"I played 160 games, so I think one more won't affect me," Cabrera said. "Whatever decision (Leyland) makes, I'm good with it."

I bet Cabrera can't wait to get this finished, as the clamor grows ever louder, sometimes too loud for him. If he could chase the Triple Crown in a sensory-free bubble, he would. But for teammates who still watch in amazement, this has become the best seat at baseball's history table.

Unsung achievement
Cabrera downplays the possible ramifications of the Triple Crown, but I wonder if people really grasp what he's doing. He's going for his second straight AL batting title, which would be enough for any star player. Incredibly, it's only a slice of what Cabrera could accomplish.

He never wanted to turn this into an individual quest, but with the Tigers in the playoffs, it's fair to focus on the numbers. Cabrera answers the questions politely, but to belabor it draws more attention and heaps more pressure, and besides, what more is there to say?

His teammates have plenty to say, including the reigning AL MVP and Cy Young winner.

"I think he's been relatively under the radar for what he's doing," Tigers ace Justin Verlander said before the game. "I haven't seen that much attention on him, not like it should be. It kind of annoys me, but it probably doesn't annoy him. The entire baseball world should be here right now."

About 20 feet away, Cabrera sat at his locker, laughing with rookie Avisail Garcia, a fellow Venezuelan who looks and swings like Cabrera. Garcia is Miggy Me, and on this day, he's a great diversion for the big fella.

Teammates behind him
The debate rages whether Trout's all-around game is more impressive than Cabrera's all-world hitting. If Cabrera lands the Triple Crown, I don't see how he could be denied the MVP, but it's no lock. I swear, Tigers players want him to complete the feat even more than he does. Verlander has been wearing his "Keep the MVP in the D" T-shirts, but that issue is up to a vote. The Triple Crown is all Cabrera's to take, and he'd love to do it. He'd just rather be judged on the team's success.

In fact, he's almost embarrassed to be talking about himself.

"The numbers are right there, you can't change that," Cabrera said. "If I change my game, it'll change my whole game for the playoffs. I gotta stay focused. I'll let you focus on all that other stuff, and you tell me."

Cabrera unleashed a gigantic laugh, his preferred antidote to pressure. He's a commanding presence in a playful way, as boisterous as anyone on the Tigers.

It's obvious his teammates appreciate him and are rooting for him, and in some ways, Cabrera is almost too consistent, too humble and too deflecting. He's a 29-year-old superstar who has put up similar numbers for eight consecutive years.

"I don't know what else to say — if he's not the MVP, then there's no such thing as an MVP," Leyland said. "That's with all due respect to Mike Trout, who's been unbelievable. But when people look at the numbers, for some reason they don't really look at RBIs. To me, that's the most important statistic of all."

Cabrera also led his team to the playoffs with stunning clutch hitting. The Angels didn't reach the postseason, although they have a better record than the Tigers. But there's only one guy going for the Triple Crown, and in the Tigers' clubhouse, no further discussion is necessary.

But no one seems overly surprised the feat is so near. Cabrera already has won batting, home run and RBI titles in different seasons. He's putting it all together now, and everyone needs to recognize exactly what we're seeing.

bob.wojnowski@detnews.com

twitter.com/bobwojnowski


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121003/OPINION03/210030361#ixzz28Ft8YEXV
 

(Oh and Trammell will most likely get into the HOF, his votes have gone up every year)

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 04:47 pm by stingmark

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Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

They dont give a player the TC because of defense, as it's an offensive based award, so your argument about his defense, is moot as it pertains to the TC. I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past. He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.

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stingmark wrote: But when people look at the numbers, for some reason they don't really look at RBIs. To me, that's the most important statistic of all."

In what possible sense are RBIs the most important stat for MVP voting?

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stingmark wrote:
Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

They dont give a player the TC because of defense, as it's an offensive based award,


Pretty sure he's debating the MVP, not the Triple Crown. The MVP is not an "offensive based award." If it was, how the hell did Verlander win it last year?

I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past.

You believe wrong. He's never won nor deserved a GG.

He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.

Maybe they could have tried one of them at DH instead of rolling out Delmon Young, Andy Dirks, and Brennan Boesch at that position.

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Famous Mortimer wrote: stingmark wrote: But when people look at the numbers, for some reason they don't really look at RBIs. To me, that's the most important statistic of all."

In what possible sense are RBIs the most important stat for MVP voting?


I dont know...ask jim Leyland......(you failed to mention who said that-Jim Leyland).

 

I find it kind of weird that it's ok for Yaz to have almost the exact identical stats when he won his TC in '67, yet Cabrera's stats(and their importance for some of the categories) are now being questioned? Get mad @ the people who make the categories eligible/important for the TC in the first place. I notice how folks don't seem to have issues with it before, now "all of a sudden" such and such a category doesn't mean as much, or the same? very strange way of thinking about it.

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It's not that strange. When Yaz won the Triple Crown there was legitimate debate over whether interracial marriage should be allowed and people didn't really know what cigarettes did to you, or at least to what extent. This is called knowledge advancement and is only "strange" in a decidedly anti-intellectualist society.

Interracial marriage is commonplace, cigarettes are bad, and RBI and BA are not the best ways of measuring the skill and value of a hitter.

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PeteF3 wrote: Pretty sure he's debating the MVP, not the Triple Crown. The MVP is not an "offensive based award." If it was, how the hell did Verlander win it last year?

I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past.

You believe wrong. He's never won nor deserved a GG.

He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.

Maybe they could have tried one of them at DH instead of rolling out Delmon Young, Andy Dirks, and Brennan Boesch at that position.


I was under the impression he was talking about the TC.

 

You're right about MVP, but again, thought he was talking TC.

 

I thought he was a gold glover for the Marlins (it was a silver slugger that he has 3 of)

Maybe so, not my call, not the manager, you're not either.

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PeteF3 wrote: It's not that strange. When Yaz won the Triple Crown there was legitimate debate over whether interracial marriage should be allowed and people didn't really know what cigarettes did to you, or at least to what extent. This is called knowledge advancement and is only "strange" in a decidedly anti-intellectualist society.


It is that strange. You're probably right on them not judging a player, but lets not start calling Trout a HOF yet, without seeing what he can do for the next 5-10 yrs? he might never repeat those stats, he might, no one knows. he had a great year, up to the voters, we can speculate all we want. IMO, if Cabrera wins the TC, he wins MVP too.

 

Cabrera's stats are there, he should win the TC, if some stats aren't as important as others claim them to be, then do away with the TC, since stats from 1967 are more important apparently.

But, Trout's numbers are ok for him to win the TC and Cabrera's(who are better) aren't? gotcha.

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:19 pm by stingmark

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::scratches head:: Who's calling Trout a HOFer?

Miguel Cabrera is an incredible hitter. Probably will end up in Cooperstown unless he completely collapses or pulls a Pete Rose. But THIS YEAR, Triple Crown or not, Mike Trout is a better overall PLAYER. That's all anyone is saying.

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PeteF3 wrote: ::scratches head:: Who's calling Trout a HOFer?

Miguel Cabrera is an incredible hitter. Probably will end up in Cooperstown unless he completely collapses or pulls a Pete Rose. But THIS YEAR, Triple Crown or not, Mike Trout is a better overall PLAYER. That's all anyone is saying.


(scratches head)Well, some have called him "the best player in the majors".....who said that, why because he had a career year? and act as if they should be ordering his HOF plaque as we speak.

For this one year, maybe he is. AGAIN, lets see how he does over a long period of time.

 

Thats all I'm saying.....

 

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:28 pm by stingmark

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stingmark wrote: I thought he was a gold glover for the Marlins (it was a silver slugger that he has 3 of)

Did you seriously just confuse a Gold Glove with a Silver Slugger?

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PeteF3 wrote: ::scratches head:: Who's calling Trout a HOFer?

Miguel Cabrera is an incredible hitter. Probably will end up in Cooperstown unless he completely collapses or pulls a Pete Rose. But THIS YEAR, Triple Crown or not, Mike Trout is a better overall PLAYER. That's all anyone is saying.

Thank goodness somebody gets it.  This was making my head hurt.

Cabrera may very well win MVP, but my only point is that, factoring every aspect of the game of baseball, Trout is for this season and at this moment, a better PLAYER.  Comparing the two is like comparing Boog Powell to Mickey Mantle.

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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: stingmark wrote: I thought he was a gold glover for the Marlins (it was a silver slugger that he has 3 of)

Did you seriously just confuse a Gold Glove with a Silver Slugger?

Yes, I did...pardon me for not knowing every award Cabrera has won. I assumed he'd won a gg with the marlins...

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thunderbolt wrote: PeteF3 wrote: ::scratches head:: Who's calling Trout a HOFer?

Miguel Cabrera is an incredible hitter. Probably will end up in Cooperstown unless he completely collapses or pulls a Pete Rose. But THIS YEAR, Triple Crown or not, Mike Trout is a better overall PLAYER. That's all anyone is saying.

Thank goodness somebody gets it.  This was making my head hurt.

Cabrera may very well win MVP, but my only point is that, factoring every aspect of the game of baseball, Trout is for this season and at this moment, a better PLAYER.  Comparing the two is like comparing Boog Powell to Mickey Mantle.


No one said anything about Trout not being a better overall player THIS year than Cabrera. Overall, he's definltey better in a few categories. The question though, was about the TC, and as it pertains to that(and ONLY that), Cabrera has had the better year offensively(which is what the TC is based on). Thats all I've been saying.  Cabrera will win the TC & most likely the MVP too.

Title of the thread isnt "who's the better player overall between the two in 2012", it's about the TC, and who do we think will win it, between Cabrera and Trout, I said Cabrera, and people freaked out. Freak out when they give the TC to Carbera, maybe some here can start an "Occupy TC" Movement or a 'sit in" to protest it not going to Trout?

Last edited on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 05:34 pm by stingmark

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mike3775 wrote: Trout became the first rookie to be a member of the 30/30 club

If he had been in the majors from opening day, he probably be a member of the 40/40 club

He'll win ROY award, so the voters will give the MVP award to Miggy.

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I don't think this has been mentiioned yet but let's not forget that Ted Williams won the Triple Crown twice ( 1942 and 1947 ) and didn't win the AL MVP either year.

1942

Joe Gordon - NY Yankees ( 270 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 249 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 53 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 18 more HRs, had 34 more RBI and outhit Gordon .356 to .322

I'm guessing the voters gave Gordon more votes as the Yankees won the AL Pennant by 9 games over Boston.



1947

Joe DiMaggio - NY Yankees ( 202 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 201 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 28 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 12 more HRs, had 17 more RBI and outhit DiMaggio .343 to .315

Once again the voters must have given winning the AL Pennant a lot of credence as Boston finished in 3rd place 14 games behind the Yankees.




One other thing to keep in mind - the last 3 Triple Crown winners ( Mickey Mantle in 1956, Frank Robinson in 1966 and Carl Yastrezemski in 1967 ) all won the AL MVP award the same year.

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lobo316 wrote: mike3775 wrote: Trout became the first rookie to be a member of the 30/30 club

If he had been in the majors from opening day, he probably be a member of the 40/40 club

He'll win ROY award, so the voters will give the MVP award to Miggy.
He should win that easily.  Not so sure on Harper in the NL though

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CanadianHorseman wrote: I don't think this has been mentiioned yet but let's not forget that Ted Williams won the Triple Crown twice ( 1942 and 1947 ) and didn't win the AL MVP either year.

1942

Joe Gordon - NY Yankees ( 270 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 249 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 53 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 18 more HRs, had 34 more RBI and outhit Gordon .356 to .322

I'm guessing the voters gave Gordon more votes as the Yankees won the AL Pennant by 9 games over Boston.



1947

Joe DiMaggio - NY Yankees ( 202 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 201 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 28 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 12 more HRs, had 17 more RBI and outhit DiMaggio .343 to .315

Once again the voters must have given winning the AL Pennant a lot of credence as Boston finished in 3rd place 14 games behind the Yankees.




One other thing to keep in mind - the last 3 Triple Crown winners ( Mickey Mantle in 1956, Frank Robinson in 1966 and Carl Yastrezemski in 1967 ) all won the AL MVP award the same year.
To be fair though, in the early 1940's, there wasn't much emphasis put on the triple crown.  It wasn't until the mid 1940's that writers and the media started to hype the triple crown.

Plus they always place a higher emphasis on teams making the playoffs over anything else.  Not many MVP's do not make the playoffs with that award

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mike3775 wrote: CanadianHorseman wrote: I don't think this has been mentiioned yet but let's not forget that Ted Williams won the Triple Crown twice ( 1942 and 1947 ) and didn't win the AL MVP either year.

1942

Joe Gordon - NY Yankees ( 270 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 249 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 53 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 18 more HRs, had 34 more RBI and outhit Gordon .356 to .322

I'm guessing the voters gave Gordon more votes as the Yankees won the AL Pennant by 9 games over Boston.



1947

Joe DiMaggio - NY Yankees ( 202 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 201 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 28 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 12 more HRs, had 17 more RBI and outhit DiMaggio .343 to .315

Once again the voters must have given winning the AL Pennant a lot of credence as Boston finished in 3rd place 14 games behind the Yankees.




One other thing to keep in mind - the last 3 Triple Crown winners ( Mickey Mantle in 1956, Frank Robinson in 1966 and Carl Yastrezemski in 1967 ) all won the AL MVP award the same year.
To be fair though, in the early 1940's, there wasn't much emphasis put on the triple crown.  It wasn't until the mid 1940's that writers and the media started to hype the triple crown.

Plus they always place a higher emphasis on teams making the playoffs over anything else.  Not many MVP's do not make the playoffs with that award

Actually, the writers hated Williams (and he them). Not voting for Williams was their way of screwing him.

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lobo316 wrote: mike3775 wrote: CanadianHorseman wrote: I don't think this has been mentiioned yet but let's not forget that Ted Williams won the Triple Crown twice ( 1942 and 1947 ) and didn't win the AL MVP either year.

1942

Joe Gordon - NY Yankees ( 270 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 249 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 53 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 18 more HRs, had 34 more RBI and outhit Gordon .356 to .322

I'm guessing the voters gave Gordon more votes as the Yankees won the AL Pennant by 9 games over Boston.



1947

Joe DiMaggio - NY Yankees ( 202 MVP voting points )
Ted Williams - Boston Red Sox ( 201 MVP voting points )

Williams scored 28 more runs, had 13 more hits, had 12 more HRs, had 17 more RBI and outhit DiMaggio .343 to .315

Once again the voters must have given winning the AL Pennant a lot of credence as Boston finished in 3rd place 14 games behind the Yankees.




One other thing to keep in mind - the last 3 Triple Crown winners ( Mickey Mantle in 1956, Frank Robinson in 1966 and Carl Yastrezemski in 1967 ) all won the AL MVP award the same year.
To be fair though, in the early 1940's, there wasn't much emphasis put on the triple crown.  It wasn't until the mid 1940's that writers and the media started to hype the triple crown.

Plus they always place a higher emphasis on teams making the playoffs over anything else.  Not many MVP's do not make the playoffs with that award

Actually, the writers hated Williams (and he them). Not voting for Williams was their way of screwing him.

One of those years, a writer left him out of the top 10.  Even a 10th place vote by that one writer would've gotten him the MVP.  He just wouldn't vote for him because of his pettiness. 

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's similar to what happened to Ray Bourque during the 1989-90 season. Bourque and Mark Messier were the top 2 candidates for the Hart Memorial Trophy ( NHL MVP ) and Messier ended up winning by just a few points. Later it was revealed that an Edmonton sports writer did not put Bourque in his top 10 list when even a 9th place vote would have resulted in a tie and a 8th place vote would have given the award to Bourque. :X

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lobo316 wrote: mike3775 wrote: Trout became the first rookie to be a member of the 30/30 club

If he had been in the majors from opening day, he probably be a member of the 40/40 club

He'll win ROY award, so the voters will give the MVP award to Miggy.

He should win the ROY award, no question. He had a great year, he just had it when someone else had a better one.

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CanadianHorseman wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's similar to what happened to Ray Bourque during the 1989-90 season. Bourque and Mark Messier were the top 2 candidates for the Hart Memorial Trophy ( NHL MVP ) and Messier ended up winning by just a few points. Later it was revealed that an Edmonton sports writer did not put Bourque in his top 10 list when even a 9th place vote would have resulted in a tie and a 8th place vote would have given the award to Bourque. :X

I never knew this, Moose all the way though!  At least Bourque managed to help Boston win 1 game of the finals in '90.  Plus the power stayed on all series at the Gardens!

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Cory17 wrote:
CanadianHorseman wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's similar to what happened to Ray Bourque during the 1989-90 season. Bourque and Mark Messier were the top 2 candidates for the Hart Memorial Trophy ( NHL MVP ) and Messier ended up winning by just a few points. Later it was revealed that an Edmonton sports writer did not put Bourque in his top 10 list when even a 9th place vote would have resulted in a tie and a 8th place vote would have given the award to Bourque. :X

I never knew this, Moose all the way though!  At least Bourque managed to help Boston win 1 game of the finals in '90.  Plus the power stayed on all series at the Gardens!


Ah SHADDUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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stingmark wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

They dont give a player the TC because of defense, as it's an offensive based award, so your argument about his defense, is moot as it pertains to the TC. I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past. He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.

Then how did Jimmy Rollins win the MVP with shittier offensive numbers than at least 4 other players in 2007? I was talking about winning an MVP based on overall ability, not TC.

Last edited on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 04:19 am by Principal_Raditch

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Principal_Raditch wrote:
stingmark wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: You're only look at Offence though. Trout's a gold glover, Cabrera might be the worst 3b in MLB. So Offensively Cabrera has a slight advantage. On the basepaths, Trout has a massive advantage. Defensively Trout has a massive advantage. It's a close call.

They dont give a player the TC because of defense, as it's an offensive based award, so your argument about his defense, is moot as it pertains to the TC. I believe Cabrera is  a gold glover in the past. He switched positions so that Fielder could play first base, I would guess that if you were the manager, you'd probably do something similar.

Then how did Jimmy Rollins win the MVP with shittier offensive numbers than at least 4 other players in 2007? I was talking about winning an MVP based on overall ability, not TC.


Not sure, mvp is not the tc, why are you asking me about something that happened 5 yrs ago, that neither of us had control over or say so on. I didnt vote for him, ask the voters. They make boo boos all the time, If Cabrera wins mvp, will you have the same issues with it as well?

Last edited on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 04:24 am by stingmark

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On that note, Yahoo's claiming it's official that Miggy's won the TC, congrats Miggy on a well deserved award. Also claiming it's almost a certainty he'll win the mvp. Nice to see it kept in the D for one more year.

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stingmark wrote: On that note, Yahoo's claiming it's official that Miggy's won the TC, congrats Miggy on a well deserved award. Also claiming it's almost a certainty he'll win the mvp. Nice to see it kept in the D for one more year.
He should have been the MVP last year. Not Verlander.

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The Triple Crown is not an award it's simply a statistical accomplishment.

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clawmaster wrote: stingmark wrote: On that note, Yahoo's claiming it's official that Miggy's won the TC, congrats Miggy on a well deserved award. Also claiming it's almost a certainty he'll win the mvp. Nice to see it kept in the D for one more year.
He should have been the MVP last year. Not Verlander.
I agree.

Winning the TC is an accomplishment thats for sure. 

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srossi wrote: If Cabrera wins the TC, I would vote for him.  But it's no guarantee if history is any indication.  Ted Williams won the TC twice and didn't win the MVP, and Lou Gehrig and Chuck Klein are 2 other TC winners who didn't win the MVP.  You can put an asterisk besides Klein's name though because he finished 2nd to Carl Hubbell before there was a Cy Young award. 

 

Gehrig not winning the MVP award in his TC season is a puzzler. It's not as if he was hated by the writers like Williams was. Gehrig wasn't even the MVP of the Yankees.
Here are the top 5 vote getters that year in the AL.

Mickey Cochrane  -    2   76 .320
Charlie Gehringer - 11  127 .356
Lefty Gomez -       26-5  2.33
Schoolboy Rowe - 24-8  3.45
Lou Gehrig -           49   165  .363

 

Even Gehringer had better stats than Cochrane.

 

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lobo316 wrote: srossi wrote: If Cabrera wins the TC, I would vote for him.  But it's no guarantee if history is any indication.  Ted Williams won the TC twice and didn't win the MVP, and Lou Gehrig and Chuck Klein are 2 other TC winners who didn't win the MVP.  You can put an asterisk besides Klein's name though because he finished 2nd to Carl Hubbell before there was a Cy Young award. 

 

Gehrig not winning the MVP award in his TC season is a puzzler. It's not as if he was hated by the writers like Williams was. Gehrig wasn't even the MVP of the Yankees.
Here are the top 5 vote getters that year in the AL.

Mickey Cochrane  -    2   76 .320
Charlie Gehringer - 11  127 .356
Lefty Gomez -       26-5  2.33
Schoolboy Rowe - 24-8  3.45
Lou Gehrig -           49   165  .363

 

Even Gehringer had better stats than Cochrane.

 

The only thing I can think of is that it was a backlash by old-school writers who were protesting the Murderer's Row Yankees that changed the game and wanted Ty Cobb baseball to come back.  Cochrane was that gritty 1800s type player who was also a catcher who caught about 130 games that year, which today is unheard of and even back then was not common.  People forget how much the home run was hated by "real" baseball fans back then.  Cobb easily got more votes than Ruth when the first HOF class was announced, and that was another 8 years after this MVP vote.  Gehrig was very well-liked though, as polite and clean-cut and well-educated (Columbia student but left before graduating) as any star player since Christy Mathewson.  But this was decades before anyone really gave a shit about  athletes as role models.  Cobb treated most everyone like shit and was adored.  You can see how much things changed even by the time Williams came along.  And now, forget about it.

Last edited on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 03:29 pm by srossi

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srossi wrote: lobo316 wrote: srossi wrote: If Cabrera wins the TC, I would vote for him.  But it's no guarantee if history is any indication.  Ted Williams won the TC twice and didn't win the MVP, and Lou Gehrig and Chuck Klein are 2 other TC winners who didn't win the MVP.  You can put an asterisk besides Klein's name though because he finished 2nd to Carl Hubbell before there was a Cy Young award. 

 

Gehrig not winning the MVP award in his TC season is a puzzler. It's not as if he was hated by the writers like Williams was. Gehrig wasn't even the MVP of the Yankees.
Here are the top 5 vote getters that year in the AL.

Mickey Cochrane  -    2   76 .320
Charlie Gehringer - 11  127 .356
Lefty Gomez -       26-5  2.33
Schoolboy Rowe - 24-8  3.45
Lou Gehrig -           49   165  .363

 

Even Gehringer had better stats than Cochrane.

 

The only thing I can think of is that it was a backlash by old-school writers who were protesting the Murderer's Row Yankees that changed the game and wanted Ty Cobb baseball to come back.  Cochrane was that gritty 1800s type player who was also a catcher who caught about 130 games that year, which today is unheard of and even back then was not common.  People forget how much the home run was hated by "real" baseball fans back then.  Cobb easily got more votes than Ruth when the first HOF class was announced, and that was another 8 years after this MVP vote.  Gehrig was very well-liked though, as polite and clean-cut and well-educated (Columbia student but left before graduating) as any star player since Christy Mathewson.  But this was decades before anyone really gave a shit about  athletes as role models.  Cobb treated most everyone like shit and was adored.  You can see how much things changed even by the time Williams came along.  And now, forget about it.


 

An anti MRY backlash.....maybe, but then why not Gehringer for the MYP ?



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