WowBB Forums Home 
WowBB Forums > Sports And Wrestling > Sports Talk > Kansas City Chiefs Murder Suicide

 Moderated by: Ron, brodiescomics, beejmi  
AuthorPost
brodiescomics



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 3321
Status: 
Online
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/12/1/3714310/shooting-at-arrowhead-chiefs-player

Several media outlets are reporting a Chiefs player has been involved in a shooting at Arrowhead Stadium. The facility is on lock down.

Jovan Belcher
was the Chiefs player shot and killed in a shooting at Arrowhead Stadium, a source tells Jason La Canfora of CBSSports.com. KMBC's Len Dawson also confirmed that the player is Belcher. The Chiefs player is believed to have killed his girlfriend before turning the gun on himself.

Last edited on Sat Dec 1st, 2012 04:14 pm by brodiescomics

Benlen



Joined: Sun Oct 21st, 2007
Location: Milpitas, California USA
Posts: 13277
Status: 
Offline
Probably caught some guy fucking her

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6845
Status: 
Offline
It's all over the local news here right now, just turned it on.

Hymie Itsu



Joined: Mon Oct 10th, 2011
Location: Birthplace Of Dean Martin
Posts: 3174
Status: 
Offline
I wonder if this will affect this weekend's game. I gots money on Carolina, ya know.

khawk
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 15721
Status: 
Offline
Wow.

Carolina was told to fly to the game as if it will be playued, which I take to mean the game will likely go on, but there is some doubt about it.

Last edited on Sat Dec 1st, 2012 05:07 pm by khawk

Hymie Itsu



Joined: Mon Oct 10th, 2011
Location: Birthplace Of Dean Martin
Posts: 3174
Status: 
Offline
khawk wrote:
Wow.

Carolina was told to fly to the game as if it will be playued, which I take to mean the game will likely go on, but there is some doubt about it.


Of course, I was being facetcious before but I don't see how they could be playing tomorrow.

ChrisOTL

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 1312
Status: 
Offline
Nevermind the NFL, I don't see how the KCPD allow 80000 people to trample on a crime scene.

The really sad thing about this is; there's a 3 month old child out there now with no parent.

khawk
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 15721
Status: 
Offline
Chris OtL wrote:
Nevermind the NFL, I don't see how the KCPD allow 80000 people to trample on a crime scene.


It's at the practice facility, so I would assume it's attached to the main stadium?

EDIT: N/m I see the first post IDed it at Arrowhead. First article I read didn't mention that, just that it was at the practice facility...I thought it might be a separate area.

Last edited on Sat Dec 1st, 2012 05:12 pm by khawk

beejmi
The Big Kahuna


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 41555
Status: 
Offline
Heard he thanked Romeo Crennel and then killed himself in front of him.

Ugly.

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6845
Status: 
Offline
The practice facility is pretty much next to the stadium. Basically the area is a massive parking lot and on that lot you have Arrowhead, Kauffman, and the practice facility.

The white builidng just above Arrowhead is the practice facility


BlueThunder



Joined: Mon Jun 6th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 2177
Status: 
Offline
He did the honorable thing. I only wish OJ had that type of integrity.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
The Chiefs will just say that the game should go on as planned to put smiles on the faces of the fans and then never mention Belcher again and edit him off of all their game film.

clawmaster
Hall Of Famer
 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: The Bowels Of East Central Illinois
Posts: 48216
Status: 
Offline
The lightning round in the 2012 dead pool sure started out with a bang!!

clawmaster
Hall Of Famer
 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: The Bowels Of East Central Illinois
Posts: 48216
Status: 
Offline
At least there were no children involved.

WongLee
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Fri Oct 19th, 2007
Location: Bay Shore, New York
Posts: 7067
Status: 
Offline
That was just Jovan being Jovan. Today's players are pussies though. If Dick Butkus committed suicide, he would have pushed the bullets into his head with his fingers.

CanadianHorseman



Joined: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 14026
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote:
The Chiefs will just say that the game should go on as planned to put smiles on the faces of the fans and then never mention Belcher again and edit him off of all their game film.

It's the Chiefs for Pete's sake - the only smiles out there on Sunday will be from Carolina fans.

CanadianHorseman



Joined: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 14026
Status: 
Offline
Fantasy Football Update






:shock:

kargol



Joined: Thu Oct 18th, 2007
Location: Brum, United Kingdom
Posts: 4385
Status: 
Offline
Anyone know if Kevin Sullivan has an alibi?

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
Lest anybody label me a coldhearted opportunist and/or a cad, I'd like to go on record as pointing out that, in the S&W Fantasy League, I picked up the Carolina defense last Sunday, and had every intention of starting them against the anemic Cheifs defense.

On a side note, now the latest debate is whether the NFL should force the Cheifs to play or not...this criticism reminds me of the WWF's criticism for continuing the show after the Owen Hart tragedy which occured, ironically enough, in Kansas City as well.

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2012 12:06 am by dogfacedgremlin34

Papa Voo



Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: Right Outside The Burgh, USA
Posts: 9688
Status: 
Offline
They are saying that Goodell will penalize the organization an unspecified amount of draft picks for the violating the anti-violence and anti-weapon policy.  Goodell will not say if he is going to fine the estate of Belcher until he reviews the tapes of the incident for code of conduct violations. 

Hymie Itsu



Joined: Mon Oct 10th, 2011
Location: Birthplace Of Dean Martin
Posts: 3174
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote:
Lest anybody label me a coldhearted opportunist and/or a cad, I'd like to go on record as pointing out that, in the S&W Fantasy League, I picked up the Carolina defense last Sunday, and had every intention of starting them against the anemic Cheifs defense.

On a side note, now the latest debate is whether the NFL should force the Cheifs to play or not...this criticism reminds me of the WWF's criticism for continuing the show after the Owen Hart tragedy which occured, ironically enough, in Kansas City as well.


Shooooooooot, I'm not hating. I have every intention of playing Newton and DeAngelo Williams.

mike3775



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 17634
Status: 
Offline
Papa Voo wrote: They are saying that Goodell will penalize the organization an unspecified amount of draft picks for the violating the anti-violence and anti-weapon policy.  Goodell will not say if he is going to fine the estate of Belcher until he reviews the tapes of the incident for code of conduct violations. 
If it was an NBA player who did this, Stern would definitely do that, especially if it was the Spurs


I loved that fantasy report, except it should have stated dead for injury status

BuddyPSHayes



Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Anywhere I Damn Well Please
Posts: 3811
Status: 
Offline
CanadianHorseman wrote:
Fantasy Football Update






:shock:


LOL @ fantasy football faggotry.

BTW, the game will be played as scheduled.

HBF



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Posts: 17866
Status: 
Offline
My first thought upon hearing it was a 25-year old Chiefs player was "don't let it be Jamaal Charles". Purely fantasy related.

Was that wrong?

Attachment: George wrong.jpg (Downloaded 75 times)

Married Jo



Joined: Fri Dec 21st, 2007
Location: Hickory NC
Posts: 6756
Status: 
Offline
I can't get over some of the people, especially talking heads, thinking they shouldn't be playing this game today. The only one I'll give a pass to is the coach since he witnessed it. But I mean, guy I work with, probably the most beloved employee we had killed himself on a Sunday about 10 years ago, we all came to work the next day. We did some crying but we worked, life goes on.

BTW, some of these whining players seem to want to forget the elephant in the room, this POS murdered his girlfriend before he offed himself, not only should they play today, but they should be playing for HER, not him. And if they are so torn up, take your game check today and donate it to the 3 month old who had her mom murdered by this animal.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
I don't ever want to hear about wrestling or wrestling fans again after this. Watching the NFL pre-game shows, you'd think this monster died saving kids from a burning building. They acted like he was the victim, every single one of them. One guy said the Chiefs were finally going to win a game for him. Are you fucking kidding me? He murdered a woman and left a 3-month old an orphan. People in the NFL are more deluded than those in the wrestling bubble could ever be. I always suspected that about the NFL, but this drives it home. The Chiefs might retire this guy's number and line up to felate his corpse before the day is over.

WongLee
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Fri Oct 19th, 2007
Location: Bay Shore, New York
Posts: 7067
Status: 
Offline
Married Jo wrote: BTW, some of these whining players seem to want to forget the elephant in the room, this POS murdered his girlfriend before he offed himself, not only should they play today, but they should be playing for HER, not him. And if they are so torn up, take your game check today and donate it to the 3 month old who had her mom murdered by this animal.
Post of the Week.

BlueThunder



Joined: Mon Jun 6th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 2177
Status: 
Offline
WongLee wrote: Married Jo wrote: BTW, some of these whining players seem to want to forget the elephant in the room, this POS murdered his girlfriend before he offed himself, not only should they play today, but they should be playing for HER, not him. And if they are so torn up, take your game check today and donate it to the 3 month old who had her mom murdered by this animal.
Post of the Week.

If I may plagiarize 4 sets of 15 in the Mike Graham thread, I hope it was a slow death for this cowardly, selfish prick.

Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2012 09:04 pm by BlueThunder

3setsof10

 

Joined: Mon May 26th, 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1794
Status: 
Offline
BlueThunder wrote: WongLee wrote: Married Jo wrote: BTW, some of these whining players seem to want to forget the elephant in the room, this POS murdered his girlfriend before he offed himself, not only should they play today, but they should be playing for HER, not him. And if they are so torn up, take your game check today and donate it to the 3 month old who had her mom murdered by this animal.
Post of the Week.

If I may plagiarize 4 sets of 15 in the Mike Graham thread, I hope it was a slow death for this cowardly, selfish prick.

Amen

And that above it is the Post of the Month

I KNOW IT'S DECEMBER 2nd

Why eulogize that stupid fuck, move on!

khawk
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 15721
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: I don't ever want to hear about wrestling or wrestling fans again after this. Watching the NFL pre-game shows, you'd think this monster died saving kids from a burning building. They acted like he was the victim, every single one of them. One guy said the Chiefs were finally going to win a game for him. Are you fucking kidding me? He murdered a woman and left a 3-month old an orphan. People in the NFL are more deluded than those in the wrestling bubble could ever be. I always suspected that about the NFL, but this drives it home. The Chiefs might retire this guy's number and line up to felate his corpse before the day is over.

In fairness to everyone commentating on this, the separation between the incident and the game was prtty short and people spoke without the benefit of wrapping their head around the big picture. By later in the day on Sunday, most people were recognizing the heinous actions of the player, and the tragedy of the dead girlfriend, and the orphaned kid in their commentary.

I don't compare it to the IWC Benoit thingy because of that. Benoitgate was a whole different level of internet faggetry, IMO.

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 02:17 pm by khawk

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
khawk wrote: srossi wrote: I don't ever want to hear about wrestling or wrestling fans again after this. Watching the NFL pre-game shows, you'd think this monster died saving kids from a burning building. They acted like he was the victim, every single one of them. One guy said the Chiefs were finally going to win a game for him. Are you fucking kidding me? He murdered a woman and left a 3-month old an orphan. People in the NFL are more deluded than those in the wrestling bubble could ever be. I always suspected that about the NFL, but this drives it home. The Chiefs might retire this guy's number and line up to felate his corpse before the day is over.

In fairness to everyone commentating on this, the separation between the incident and the game was prtty short and people spoke without the benefit of wrapping their head around the big picture. By later in the day on Sunday, most people were recognizing the heinous actions of the player, and the tragedy of the dead girlfriend, and the orphaned kid in their commentary.

I don't compare it to the IWC Benoit thingy because of that. Benoitgate was a whole different level of internet faggetry, IMO.

I have to disagree.  Very comparable IMO.  And if this guy was as good at his job as Benoit was at his, it would've exceeded it by leaps and bounds.  All this was for a player I never even heard of before yesterday.  Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Married Jo



Joined: Fri Dec 21st, 2007
Location: Hickory NC
Posts: 6756
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?

I just watched the Costas clip.  A couple of things about it...

Firstly, Costas's commentarty was hardly an "anti-gun rant".  He was quoting a Jason Whitlock article inspired by the Belcher tragedy which discussed gun control laws in the US.  Now, if you wanted to call it "an anti-gun opinion piece sneakily disguised as a lengthy quote from a newspaper article" I might agree with you.  But an anti-gun rant of Costas's design it was not.

Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.

And for the record, I wasn't associating this at all with a gun control issue until I read rossi's post and watched the Costas/Whitlock piece myself.  Now, I can see that perspective as well. 

khawk
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 15721
Status: 
Offline
Married Jo wrote: btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that.
One of the pre-game shows on Sunday made special note of it, so someone did.

I guess I look at the comparison to the IWC as off because I believe more football fans are apt to turn around once they think about it and say "fuck that guy", as opposed to the rather large IWC contingent that continued to support Benoit because he was a good werker (or something equally asinine).

I also was not thinking of Costas' commentary from last night, which obviously will/did turn head in the US. He's taking it to a whole other level of argument and outrage with that bit, no doubt.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
khawk wrote: Married Jo wrote: btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that.
One of the pre-game shows on Sunday made special note of it, so someone did.

I guess I look at the comparison to the IWC as off because I believe more football fans are apt to turn around once they think about it and say "fuck that guy", as opposed to the rather large IWC contingent that continued to support Benoit because he was a good werker (or something equally asinine).

I think you're over-estimating the common sense and intelligence of a group of people who usually get piss drunk and sit out in the snow without shirts for 3 hours.

Did anyone see the "moment of silence" yesterday?  I hard some people say it was for Jovan, others said it was for "victims of domestic violence everywhere", some said it was for both.

Married Jo



Joined: Fri Dec 21st, 2007
Location: Hickory NC
Posts: 6756
Status: 
Offline
Saw this, I laughed, shoot me..

mike3775



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 17634
Status: 
Offline
Married Jo wrote:
Saw this, I laughed, shoot me..



Fucking awesome.

So far this week, we have had people killed with a gun, killed with a bow, and killed with rope.

My god, everything unsafe needs to be taken away

khawk
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 15721
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: I think you're over-estimating the common sense and intelligence of a group of people who usually get piss drunk and sit out in the snow without shirts for 3 hours.

Did anyone see the "moment of silence" yesterday?  I hard some people say it was for Jovan, others said it was for "victims of domestic violence everywhere", some said it was for both.


All pre-game talk of it stated it was for victims of domestic violence everywhere.

Perhaps I am over-estimating, but when entering the IWC into a comparative discussion with fans of other sports/entertainment, I tend to do that.

thunderbolt
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Manhattan Beach, California USA
Posts: 6205
Status: 
Offline
I am a firearms collector, most everything I own is from the Spanish-American War and WWI era. That aside, they all can kill people. 
This episode make me ponder Costas' adoption of Whitlock's analysis.  Is it more applicable to black culture than to mine?  Probably.  Is he right?  Likely. 

It is thought provoking.

BlueThunder



Joined: Mon Jun 6th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 2177
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  

tamalie
Hall Of Famer
 

Joined: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 4441
Status: 
Offline
I thought the lionization of Belcher was more than a bit over the top yesterday by certain NFL studio guys, indeed glossing over the fact that he killed his wife. I am also fine with the game having gone ahead as scheduled. The whole "getting a win for him" thing was also totally out of place. 

That said, I can understand why some Chiefs players may not have wanted to play or didn't have their hearts and minds 100% in the game. Regardless of what Javon Belcher did, he was still a friend and coworker with whom many Chiefs socialized or whose wives socialized. This isn't someone dying of cancer in which those left behind get some time to come to grips with things in advance or a guy getting arrested and then a trial taking place many months later. This was a lightning bolt and one some of these people will struggle to come to terms with for some time. For instance, some Chiefs must be asking themselves whether it's okay to still consider him a friend and remember good times with him fondly given what occurred and how two different sides of one person are in conflict.

BlueThunder



Joined: Mon Jun 6th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 2177
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

I agree with this.  Heat of the moment is heat of the moment.  If you're capable of this type of violence, you're going to grab the first thing you can.  If you don't have a gun, it'll be a kitchen knife or your bare hands, and this woman is not fighting off a giant pro football player intent on killing her.  Murder has been around for centuries before guns. 

None of this is even taking into account the 800 pound elephant in the room for the NFL, which is that they're players could all be ticking time bombs due to head injuries, destined to kill themselves or others or at least make highly irrational and dangerous decisions.  This could've happened at any time if he had a brain like Benoit's, and Benoit didn't have a gun.  Maybe he was just another thug, but we don't know that.  So assumptions are being made on all sides. 

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 07:51 pm by srossi

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

I agree with this.  Heat of the moment is heat of the moment.  If you're capable of this type of violence, you're going to grab the first thing you can.  If you don't have a gun, it'll be a kitchen knife or your bare hands, and this woman is not fighting off a giant pro football player intent on killing her.  Murder has been around for centuries before guns.

Fine.  Just to play Devil's Advocate, let's say he would've murdered her even if he didn't have a gun.  (Which, for the record, I think is an assumption you absolutely, positively CANNOT make; not only because neither one of you know the man or know what was going through his head, but also you have to consider that killing with a gun makes said murder considerably less "personal" and much more "convenient" or "clean".  But whatever.) My question is, would Belcher have killed HIMSELF if he didn't have a gun?  Would he have gone on to Chris Benoit himself, as BT possibly theorized?  Would he perhaps drink a bucket of gasoline?  Maybe he would've taken that proverbial knife that he theoretically killed his girlfriend with and theoretically slit his own throat.

Would he have done any of those things has he not had a gun?  It's possible, I guess, but not probable.  You can't speculate on that.  None of it.

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

I agree with this.  Heat of the moment is heat of the moment.  If you're capable of this type of violence, you're going to grab the first thing you can.  If you don't have a gun, it'll be a kitchen knife or your bare hands, and this woman is not fighting off a giant pro football player intent on killing her.  Murder has been around for centuries before guns.

Fine.  Just to play Devil's Advocate, let's say he would've murdered her even if he didn't have a gun.  (Which, for the record, I think is an assumption you absolutely, positively CANNOT make; not only because neither one of you know the man or know what was going through his head, but also you have to consider that killing with a gun makes said murder considerably less "personal" and much more "convenient" or "clean".  But whatever.) My question is, would Belcher have killed HIMSELF if he didn't have a gun?  Would he have gone on to Chris Benoit himself, as BT possibly theorized?  Would he perhaps drink a bucket of gasoline?  Maybe he would've taken that proverbial knife that he theoretically killed his girlfriend with and theoretically slit his own throat.

Would he have done any of those things has he not had a gun?  It's possible, I guess, but not probable.  You can't speculate on that.  None of it.

Couple things about the above that I'm still trying to figure out:

1.  I'm not at all sure what Pee Wee Herman has to do with any of this, but let's throw him in there, sure, why not?
2.  How did this become "Costas's Agenda".  As I already mentioned, Whitlock wrote it.  Costas was just commenting on it.  And from what I saw, he didn't express his opinion one way or another.  Go to the tape.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

I agree with this.  Heat of the moment is heat of the moment.  If you're capable of this type of violence, you're going to grab the first thing you can.  If you don't have a gun, it'll be a kitchen knife or your bare hands, and this woman is not fighting off a giant pro football player intent on killing her.  Murder has been around for centuries before guns.

Fine.  Just to play Devil's Advocate, let's say he would've murdered her even if he didn't have a gun.  (Which, for the record, I think is an assumption you absolutely, positively CANNOT make; not only because neither one of you know the man or know what was going through his head, but also you have to consider that killing with a gun makes said murder considerably less "personal" and much more "convenient" or "clean".  But whatever.) My question is, would Belcher have killed HIMSELF if he didn't have a gun?  Would he have gone on to Chris Benoit himself, as BT possibly theorized?  Would he perhaps drink a bucket of gasoline?  Maybe he would've taken that proverbial knife that he theoretically killed his girlfriend with and theoretically slit his own throat.

Would he have done any of those things has he not had a gun?  It's possible, I guess, but not probable.  You can't speculate on that.  None of it.

You completely lost me with that argument.  The only rational decision he made that entire day was killing himself.  He was about to spend the rest of his life in jail, it was his only option left.  So absolutely he would've killed himself.  And who cares about him anyway, it saved everyone the cost of trying him and locking him up.  Even if you think that he would've only killed himself because he had a gun (which is certainly not the case), that's a huge plus for the gun!

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: 2.  How did this become "Costas's Agenda".  As I already mentioned, Whitlock wrote it.  Costas was just commenting on it.  And from what I saw, he didn't express his opinion one way or another.  Go to the tape.

Well I suppose he could've read "Green Eggs and Ham", but he randomly picked that column instead.  We can assume that people can't kill without guns, but not that Costas agrees with Whitlock by spending an entire segment quoting him.  Come on DFG, be serious.  You first few posts were find, agree to disagree or whatever, but the last two are absurd. 

BlueThunder



Joined: Mon Jun 6th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 2177
Status: 
Offline
Okay, I didn't see the tape, so I may be wrong about Costas. Then it's Whitelock with the agenda.

My point about Pee Wee was simple. If he snapped and had no access to a gun, I doubt that he's capable of serious harm. I kinda conceited that point to you. If he did have a gun and killed someone, should the rest of responsible gun owners pay the price? Of course not.

Look, I know you have an anti-gun agenda. It's rather obvious. I respect it because you bring good points. If I lived in a civilized country like Japan, I'd probably be againt gun ownership. Here in the U.S, it's too late. The horses are out of the stable. Please don't try and argue that people in Chicago are just as civilized as those in Tokyo.

 

 

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: srossi wrote:
Throw in Bob Costas' political anti-gun rant during Sunday Night Football, so completely and unacceptably out of place and designed strictly so he can pretend he's a real journalist instead of a guy who talks about balls, and this might be worse than any IWC faggotry I've ever seen.

Spot on.

btw, a Cleveland Browns employee hung himself Saturday in their equipment building, nobody has mentioned that. I wonder if Costas will call for a ban on rope sales?



Secondly, the last line from the Whitlock article, as quoted by Costas, stated "Here is what I believe:  If Javon Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Cassandra Perkins would both be alive today."  Again, I'm not sure how you can dispute that, but I'm sure the knife people or the rope people (see above) will come out of the woodwork and find a way.



Shirley you jest. Ever hear of Chris Benoit? I don't mean to be a dick, but you're talking about a 25 year old 250lb athlete who was obviously enraged. He probably would have beaten her to death.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You seem to know a lot about Javon Belcher and what made him tick.  Tell me, why did he kill her? What was his motive?  What was his backup plan in case he couldn't get a gun?  Would he have Crossface Crippler killed her like Benoit?  Would he have hung himself from his home Nautilis machine?  It's almost like you were there.

For you to assume all gun murderers have an alternative plan in of murder in mind instead of what it oftentimes really is--a heat of the moment, impulsive act--is a broad, probably inaccurate assessment.  


I don't watch football so I never heard of him. I really don't know what set him off. Maybe there was suspicion of cheating. Maybe he suffered from some type of delusions because of head trauma.  whatever he was pissed about may have been compounded by roid use. I seriously doubt that he snapped because the dishes weren't done, and I doubt they were arguing over the fiscal cliff. Something serious enraged him. I guarantee you, if he didn't have  a gun, she would have received a beating, maybe even fatal.

 

Wrt to your last paragraph, no, not all murderers have a plan B if they have no access to a gun. If this were Pee Wee Herman, there might be something to the argument. Look, we can argue scenarios all day, but we'll never know for sure. This isn't the time for Costas to exploit this tragedy to further his agenda.

I agree with this.  Heat of the moment is heat of the moment.  If you're capable of this type of violence, you're going to grab the first thing you can.  If you don't have a gun, it'll be a kitchen knife or your bare hands, and this woman is not fighting off a giant pro football player intent on killing her.  Murder has been around for centuries before guns.

Fine.  Just to play Devil's Advocate, let's say he would've murdered her even if he didn't have a gun.  (Which, for the record, I think is an assumption you absolutely, positively CANNOT make; not only because neither one of you know the man or know what was going through his head, but also you have to consider that killing with a gun makes said murder considerably less "personal" and much more "convenient" or "clean".  But whatever.) My question is, would Belcher have killed HIMSELF if he didn't have a gun?  Would he have gone on to Chris Benoit himself, as BT possibly theorized?  Would he perhaps drink a bucket of gasoline?  Maybe he would've taken that proverbial knife that he theoretically killed his girlfriend with and theoretically slit his own throat.

Would he have done any of those things has he not had a gun?  It's possible, I guess, but not probable.  You can't speculate on that.  None of it.

You completely lost me with that argument.  The only rational decision he made that entire day was killing himself.  He was about to spend the rest of his life in jail, it was his only option left.  So absolutely he would've killed himself.  And who cares about him anyway, it saved everyone the cost of trying him and locking him up.  Even if you think that he would've only killed himself because he had a gun (which is certainly not the case), that's a huge plus for the gun!

"The only option left" was to kill himself?  Hey, tell that to OJ or Rae Carruth.  Last I knew, those two were still rotting in jail.  And no, I'm not crying over this creep Belcher offing himself.  The point I was trying to make is just to point out that, were guns not available, he, and possibly his ex/girlfriend, might still be alive--the argument "well, he certainly would've just found another way to do it" is overly simplistic and not entirely accurate...I don't see why you think that theory of "absolutely finding another way" holds any more water that the opposite tack.

 

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: 2.  How did this become "Costas's Agenda".  As I already mentioned, Whitlock wrote it.  Costas was just commenting on it.  And from what I saw, he didn't express his opinion one way or another.  Go to the tape.

Well I suppose he could've read "Green Eggs and Ham", but he randomly picked that column instead.  We can assume that people can't kill without guns, but not that Costas agrees with Whitlock by spending an entire segment quoting him.  Come on DFG, be serious.  You first few posts were find, agree to disagree or whatever, but the last two are absurd. 



All's I was trying to do was poke holes in your initial "rant" statement.  Did you even see the segment, or were you just going off of stuff you read from the internet?  Be truthful now.  I'm guessing the latter, because had you acutally watched it, you'd know it was anything but a "rant".  Maybe in stingmark's world--who thought everything written on this board was a rant--Costas's commentary would qualify as a such, but not in the normal world.

For those of you who haven't seen it, here it is:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/03/bob-costas-gun-control-jovan-belcher_n_2229496.html

And for the record, here's my favorite part from the Whilock column, which can be found here:

"Our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead...Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it."

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

Last edited on Mon Dec 3rd, 2012 09:01 pm by dogfacedgremlin34

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
BlueThunder wrote: Look, I know you have an anti-gun agenda. It's rather obvious. I respect it because you bring good points. If I lived in a civilized country like Japan, I'd probably be againt gun ownership. Here in the U.S, it's too late. The horses are out of the stable. Please don't try and argue that people in Chicago are just as civilized as those in Tokyo. 

I absolutely would not argue that, as I agree with this to a point.  What I don't necessarily agree with is that it's too late for the US.  I believe at a certain point, over time (a time likely to be measured in centuries, not decades), Americans can reach civilized status like our friends in Japan.  But to do that, I'm convinced that a vehicle for easy, senseless, oftentimes penalty-free destruction of human lives needs to be eliminated from the general society.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: 2.  How did this become "Costas's Agenda".  As I already mentioned, Whitlock wrote it.  Costas was just commenting on it.  And from what I saw, he didn't express his opinion one way or another.  Go to the tape.

Well I suppose he could've read "Green Eggs and Ham", but he randomly picked that column instead.  We can assume that people can't kill without guns, but not that Costas agrees with Whitlock by spending an entire segment quoting him.  Come on DFG, be serious.  You first few posts were find, agree to disagree or whatever, but the last two are absurd. 


All's I was trying to do was poke holes in your initial "rant" statement.  Did you even see the segment, or were you just going off of stuff you read from the internet?  Be truthful now.  I'm guessing the latter, because had you acutally watched it, you'd know it was anything but a "rant".  Maybe in stingmark's world--who thought everything written on this board was a rant--Costas's commentary would qualify as a such, but not in the normal world.

For those of you who haven't seen it, here it is:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/03/bob-costas-gun-control-jovan-belcher_n_2229496.html

I watched it this morning.  I understand that he was quoting someone else even before, but you don't quote someone just for the hell of it, it was clearly meant as an endorsement.  It sounds like a rant to me when someone goes on that type of soapbox in such an inappropriate setting.  I didn't mean to suggest that he was yelling while waving around a legally purchased firearm and picking off cameramen to prove his point, although that would've been entertaining.

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: I didn't mean to suggest that he was yelling while waving around a legally purchased firearm and picking off cameramen to prove his point, although that would've been entertaining.
Well, there's a little bit of stingmark in all of us, I guess.  Even Costas.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: I didn't mean to suggest that he was yelling while waving around a legally purchased firearm and picking off cameramen to prove his point, although that would've been entertaining.
Well, there's a little bit of stingmark in all of us, I guess.  Even Costas.

4 pages into this and I guess someone should point out that a woman married to a millionaire football is one thing and one thing only...

DaNkinator



Joined: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 6116
Status: 
Offline
But you're failing to see (at least it seems that way to me as just a reader of the debate thus far) that you're also going with an assumption that if guns hadn't been available, that it may not have happened.  And that's all it is.

We know almost nothing about the details of what happened.  No indication whatsoever if it was predetermined or not.  No idea where the gun came from.

Neither side of the debate.

So I'm failing to see how either side can really debate it and treat it as if you're opinion is the right one.

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
DaNkinator wrote: But you're failing to see (at least it seems that way to me as just a reader of the debate thus far) that you're also going with an assumption that if guns hadn't been available, that it may not have happened.  And that's all it is.

We know almost nothing about the details of what happened.  No indication whatsoever if it was predetermined or not.  No idea where the gun came from.

Neither side of the debate.

So I'm failing to see how either side can really debate it and treat it as if you're opinion is the right one.

Precisely.  I never said my opinion was the right one.  In fact, my first post in this was that initially I didn't consider this a gun control issue.  But I can see how Whitlock/Costas could classify it as such. 

What I mainly took exception to was the folks saying, "well, if he didn't do it with a gun, he would've done it another way".  I call non-absolute bullshit on that, because nobody knows what was going on in this guy's head, and this is not the proper situation to make that type of argument (although I don't know many situations that are right for that type of argument, because, frankly, in most circumstances, we'll never know what really would've happened with these "hypotheticals").

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6845
Status: 
Offline
The guy was from Long Island. Clearly he was fucked in the head. End of Argument.

HBF



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Posts: 17866
Status: 
Offline
Don't know if you guys saw this but new news came to light:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/12/03/jovan-belcher-case-new-information/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6845
Status: 
Offline
My wife and I were out to dinner last night, and we were sitting next to a group of KCPD officers. They were all blabbing about how the rumour coming out of of their dept was that the woman killed was fucking around with another chiefs player.

mike3775



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 17634
Status: 
Offline
Principal_Raditch wrote: My wife and I were out to dinner last night, and we were sitting next to a group of KCPD officers. They were all blabbing about how the rumour coming out of of their dept was that the woman killed was fucking around with another chiefs player.
Some are saying its the effects of a concussion now.

It is amazing how many will try to find a way to justify someone offing a loved one these days

freebirdsforever2001
Fantasia is running wild!


Joined: Tue Jul 8th, 2008
Location: Pittsgrove, New Jersey USA
Posts: 20758
Status: 
Offline
http://deadspin.com/jovan-belcher-shootings/

I haven't read too much of this thread, so I don't know if this is new info or not. Apparently, the guy with the Bentley, had " financial issues". WTF?

mike3775



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 17634
Status: 
Offline
I can believe that they got into a fight before it happened over partying.  I would imagine that he got home and she started yelling at him asking where the fuck he was at and how she had to stay up all night caring for their baby while he was out drinking it up and partying, acting like an immature piece of shit.  So he shot her

ChrisOTL

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 1312
Status: 
Offline
freebirdsforever2001 wrote: I haven't read too much of this thread, so I don't know if this is new info or not. Apparently, the guy with the Bentley, had " financial issues". WTF?I wouldn't be shocked by that. Most of these guys live well beyond their means, and are surrounded by leaches. It's why shitloads of them leave the game that paid them so well, as broke as they were when they came into the game.

khawk
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 15721
Status: 
Offline
Chris OtL wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote: I haven't read too much of this thread, so I don't know if this is new info or not. Apparently, the guy with the Bentley, had " financial issues". WTF?I wouldn't be shocked by that. Most of these guys live well beyond their means, and are surrounded by leaches. It's why shitloads of them leave the game that paid them so well, as broke as they were when they came into the game.

The ESPN 30 for 30 on athletes going broke was a great illustration of this.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 49537
Status: 
Offline
khawk wrote: Chris OtL wrote: freebirdsforever2001 wrote: I haven't read too much of this thread, so I don't know if this is new info or not. Apparently, the guy with the Bentley, had " financial issues". WTF?I wouldn't be shocked by that. Most of these guys live well beyond their means, and are surrounded by leaches. It's why shitloads of them leave the game that paid them so well, as broke as they were when they came into the game.

The ESPN 30 for 30 on athletes going broke was a great illustration of this.

And it's not just athletes, if this financial crisis has taught us anything it's that a big house or a fancy car means absolutely nothing in terms of financial health.  And besides, most of my wealthiest friends are tech guys and wear dirty jeans and sneakers.  Appearances can be very deceiving.  And in other news, Lenny Dykstra was sentenced to 6 1/2 months in jail today.  :)

Famous Mortimer



Joined: Thu Nov 6th, 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2771
Status: 
Offline
I saw Bob Costas' bit just now, and completely agreed with it.

PeteF3

 

Joined: Thu Dec 6th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 1476
Status: 
Offline
Famous Mortimer wrote:
I saw Bob Costas' bit just now, and completely agreed with it.


I won't say I "completely" agreed with it, but good for Costas for speaking frankly. Whether one agrees or disagrees the wailing over "NOW'S NOT THE TIME" completely escapes me as a criticism. When is a BETTER time to discuss this issue?

Keep in mind that there can be a happy medium between "everyone gets an AK-47" and "no legal guns, period."

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6845
Status: 
Offline
Just reported on the local news here that she was shot 9 times. Guess pimp slapping her was too much effort.

dogfacedgremlin34
Will Kick Your Ass At Fantasy Football


Joined: Fri Feb 8th, 2008
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 10016
Status: 
Offline
Principal_Raditch wrote:
Just reported on the local news here that she was shot 9 times. Guess pimp slapping her was too much effort.

What kind of gun did he use? Sheesh.

Serious question, because I'm not sure how many shots most handguns have in a clip. Sounds like he emptied the whole thing into her.

mike3775



Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 17634
Status: 
Offline
dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote:
Just reported on the local news here that she was shot 9 times. Guess pimp slapping her was too much effort.

What kind of gun did he use? Sheesh.

Serious question, because I'm not sure how many shots most handguns have in a clip. Sounds like he emptied the whole thing into her.
My 9mm has 9 round clips, my 22 has 12 round clips


Quattro

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 3893
Status: 
Offline
Well if it is true that he emptied the clip into her, that isn't a stupid, accidental shot that got fired. Sounds like a pure fit of hatred or rage.

With this info, in the absence of a handgun I say there is a good chance he bludgeons, stabs, or strangles her and then off's himself with an OD, proving Costas' theory (or that of the person he is quoting) absolutely wrong.

But that is just me talking.

macdaddy516



Joined: Wed Feb 16th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 220
Status: 
Offline
Principal_Raditch wrote:
The guy was from Long Island. Clearly he was fucked in the head. End of Argument.


What does being from Long Island have anything to do with this ?
It`d be pretty fucking awesome to have you elaborate on this ....Lets hear , in detail , the connection between being from Long Island and being fucked in the head ?

Chrisstlouis

 

Joined: Thu Jun 11th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 2397
Status: 
Offline
mike3775 wrote:
Principal_Raditch wrote: My wife and I were out to dinner last night, and we were sitting next to a group of KCPD officers. They were all blabbing about how the rumour coming out of of their dept was that the woman killed was fucking around with another chiefs player.
Some are saying its the effects of a concussion now.

It is amazing how many will try to find a way to justify someone offing a loved one these days
How is that justifying anything?



UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2013 Data 1 Systems