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srossi

 

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Earlier this week it was announced that Richie Sambora was taking another leave of absence from Bon Jovi for "personal reasons".  This is always code for rehab, and Samboar actually just came out of rehab last year, so it wasn't very surprising.  But now it turns out that Sambora is still clean and left the band after a fight that almost turned physical between him and Jon.  It's been described as a classic "Jagger/Richards blow-up" and those close to Sambora say that it's probably over for good this time.  Richie's very comfortable and has been putting up with Jon for many years, and Jon has treated all his band members like contracted temps for at least 20 years now.  The guy seems like a brilliant businessman but impossible to deal with.  The more successful he's become in other enterprises, the more he manages Bon Jovi like a business, and that's only commendable to a certain point.  It's great that he's not blowing his money on drugs and hookers anymore and has amassed more wealth than probably anyone else out of the '80s scene, but at some point it's still rock 'n' roll and you need to have some heart.  Jon's been simply putting in his 9-to-5 and spitting insipid lyrics out of a machine utilizing market research and all this other crap that the band is unlistenable at this point, even live, which used to be their strong suit even after their studio albums started sucking.

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Honestly, at this point Richie sings the songs better than Jon, he should just put together his own band and tour doing all the BJ songs and his solo stuff.

tamalie
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Jon Bon Jovi has stated that all dates on the current tour will go ahead as planned. Some will cry blasphemy, but, regardless of who's right or wrong in this relationship breakdown, from Jon's perspective if he calls off the tour and puts the band in limbo, then he concedes all power in the dispute to Sambora. At that point, Jon admits it's not Bon Jovi without Richie. If Jon goes on without Sambora, it puts the pressure on Sambora to either come back or accept that the train will roll on without him.

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Without Sambora, Bon Jovi loses a lot of what makes the band successful. Jon can think that it's all him all he wants to but he's only fooling himself.

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cheapseats wrote:
Without Sambora, Bon Jovi loses a lot of what makes the band successful. Jon can think that it's all him all he wants to but he's only fooling himself.

I saw them live like 10 years ago and Richie was one of the highlights for me, first off, he's a great guitarist when he's on, but he sang "I'll be there for you" and NAILED it, sounded better than the album version. That really opened my eyes up to just how talented he really is. Saw him sing on a few of the morning shows last year promoting his solo album and he's a great singer..

Honestly, the only person I could care less about in Bon Jovi is Jon himself..

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tamalie wrote: Jon Bon Jovi has stated that all dates on the current tour will go ahead as planned. Some will cry blasphemy, but, regardless of who's right or wrong in this relationship breakdown, from Jon's perspective if he calls off the tour and puts the band in limbo, then he concedes all power in the dispute to Sambora. At that point, Jon admits it's not Bon Jovi without Richie. If Jon goes on without Sambora, it puts the pressure on Sambora to either come back or accept that the train will roll on without him.
Jon has said many times that he's the band, period.  I saw an interview he did with Larry King right before KIng retired, whenever that was, and he reiterated over and over again that he makes the decisions, what he says goes, and he appreciates the talent of his bandmates but he is Bon Jovi.  There was never a question that the band would continue without Richie.  It did when he went to rehab, it will now. 

It doesn't seem like a well-kept secret that Jon pretty much wants all the original members to quit so that he can hire unknowns and throw a few dollars at them as his personal contract workers instead of having to deal with band egos.  It's already happened.  Alec John Such quit as bassist and was "replaced" by Hugh McDonald 20 years ago, but McDonald is officially a "touring musician", not a member of the band.  He might make 10 cents on the dollar to what the other guys make, and he does every live show and appears on their studio albums.  It's the music equivalent of wrestlers being "independent contractors".  Clearly he's in the band, just like clearly a WWE wrestler is an employee of the company, but they get none of the benefits.  And now Jon gets to do that with the guitarist too, and the only other guy who cut into his pie in any real way is gone.  Now if he can just get rid of Tico Torres and David Bryan, he'll have 100% of it.  And none of the 55-year old women who are his new demo, either because they remember when he was a rock star in the '80s or because they like his new country pop sound in the 2000s, will give a damn, they'll come out just to see him.  He's about to make more money without Richie than with him, even though the sound of the band is going to go to hell.     

Last edited on Fri Apr 5th, 2013 05:32 pm by srossi

tamalie
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The practice of not replacing long term departed members while keeping regular touring/session guys on the payroll without cutting them into the band's business entity as partners is fairly common for major bands with a lot of money at stake.

- Ron Wood joined the Stones in 1975. However, despite public appearances, he didn't earn full membership status until Bill Wyman left in 1991. That enabled Wood to effectively take Wyman's share without Jagger, Richards and Watts having to give up any of their percentage. Darryl Jones came in bass for the Stones not long afterwards and is still a hired gun, not a member.

- When Kenney Jones joined The Who, he was granted full membership status at the insistance of Pete Townshend. This infuriated Roger Daltrey who wanted the percentage that once belonged to Keith Moon spread among the remaining members instead of parceled out to Kenney. When Jones was excluded from later reunions (he may techinically still have a piece of the band), The Who didn't cut in Zak Starkey, his replacement and the group's long running drummer to date.

- Starkey also didn't get full membership status when he drummed for Oasis in the early to mid 2000s as a replacement for Alan White. Despite Gem Archer and Andy Bell getting public membership staus as replacements for Bonehead and Guigsy, the only members in the business end by then were the Gallagher brothers. 

- Scott Thurston and Steve Ferrone are Heartbreakers, but I think only Tom Petty, Mike Campbell, and Benmont Tench are in the partnership. Ron Blair left in 1982 and came back around 2000 when Howie Epstein melted down. I'm not sure how his membership status works.

- A few more come to mind. Train is down to three "real" members with sidemen filling in otherwise. At this point Ian Astbury and Billy Duffy are the only members of The Cult with full status. Art Alexakis is effectively Everclear and Billy Corgan is effectively Smashing Pumpkins, neither working with any other original members and employing sidemen.

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I had no idea of the economics behind all of this stuff. Wow. Hopefully, the Beatles screwed Ringo Starr.

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tamalie wrote:

- When Kenney Jones joined The Who, he was granted full membership status at the insistance of Pete Townshend. This infuriated Roger Daltrey who wanted the percentage that once belonged to Keith Moon spread among the remaining members instead of parceled out to Kenney. When Jones was excluded from later reunions (he may techinically still have a piece of the band), The Who didn't cut in Zak Starkey, his replacement and the group's long running drummer to date.


Pretty sure Zak has been made a full member now. I remember reading an interview with Pete a few years back and he mentioned it.

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The Who were absolutely done back in 1989 due to Townshends loss of hearing and having a guitar player "behind the curtain" playing lead. That's the reason I've never seen them live. That they tour today is sad.

Bon Jovi is living off "Wanted Dead or Alive" and that stuff from 1985. I'm from NJ and even know a guy who quit my school to work Bon Jovi's tour (he's buddies with the brother or cousin or some shit) but they are one of the top 5 most overrated acts in history. Their best album was the one with "In and Out of Love" and that's from either '83 or '84.

Last edited on Sat Apr 6th, 2013 12:20 am by HBF

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Ultimark wrote:
I had no idea of the economics behind all of this stuff. Wow. Hopefully, the Beatles screwed Ringo Starr.

:D
I forgot who it was (somebody famous) but they said Ringo was one of the best drummers of all time. I though he had the best gig of all time (next to Hendrix and SRV's drummers) because you just had to be steady. In complete fairness, both of those drummers (Mitch Mitchell and Chris Layton)are stellar.

Last edited on Sat Apr 6th, 2013 12:23 am by HBF

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HBF wrote:
Bon Jovi is living off "Wanted Dead or Alive" and that stuff from 1985. I'm from NJ and even know a guy who quit my school to work Bon Jovi's tour (he's buddies with the brother or cousin or some shit) but they are one of the top 5 most overrated acts in history. Their best album was the one with "In and Out of Love" and that's from either '83 or '84.

I like the first five Bon Jovi albums. That's great that you think 7800 is their best album, that one or New Jersey is my favorite. But 7800 gets ignored by everyone, including the band.
The same thing would go for the debut, if it didn't have Runaway.

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Big Ringo Starr fan.  I still purchase alot of his new stuff.  I liked his solo stuff back in the early 70's better than John's stuff and Paul's stuff.

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sportatorium roach wrote:
HBF wrote:
Bon Jovi is living off "Wanted Dead or Alive" and that stuff from 1985. I'm from NJ and even know a guy who quit my school to work Bon Jovi's tour (he's buddies with the brother or cousin or some shit) but they are one of the top 5 most overrated acts in history. Their best album was the one with "In and Out of Love" and that's from either '83 or '84.

I like the first five Bon Jovi albums. That's great that you think 7800 is their best album, that one or New Jersey is my favorite. But 7800 gets ignored by everyone, including the band.
The same thing would go for the debut, if it didn't have Runaway.


The first album is great as well. Except for "Wanted Dead or Alive", the 3rd album moved them in the 80's rock ballad bullshit that claimed formerly great bands like Def Leppard. And, to me at least, was all she wrote for Bon Jovi.

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Papa Voo wrote:
Big Ringo Starr fan.  I still purchase alot of his new stuff.  I liked his solo stuff back in the early 70's better than John's stuff and Paul's stuff.


Ringo had a great style, you hear it better on the '09 Beatle remasters. The first several albums on the '87 CDs are too muffled when it comes to the drums.

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honestly who cares about a band that ceased being relevant in the mid 80s?

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Quattro wrote: honestly who cares about a band that ceased being relevant in the mid 80s?
They might not be relevant to our demographic anymore, but they're more relevant than they've ever been before.  They just released an album a month ago and it hit #1 everywhere.  So did the 2 before that.  They never had 3 #1 albums in what we would consider their prime.  Their 5 albums post-2000 (not including the one just released) did 11, 6, 7, 4, and 4 million sales, monster totals for this time period.  They're also selling out a stadium tour this summer.  No other '80s band can do any of this and few bands of any kind can.  U2 is the only possible exception I can think of.

Last edited on Sat Apr 6th, 2013 04:49 am by srossi

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My Sister In Law was in their fan club for years.  I even watched my nieces one time so she could go to some special concert for club members where they were supposed to meet Jon.  He walked in took a look and left.  He sent his Mother to meet them in his place instead.  She was more upset about his cavalier attitude towards his fans than not meeting him.  Needless to say she is no long a card carrying member of their official fan club and it took her a couple of years to where she is a fan of their music again.

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HBF wrote: Ultimark wrote:
I had no idea of the economics behind all of this stuff. Wow. Hopefully, the Beatles screwed Ringo Starr.

:D
I forgot who it was (somebody famous) but they said Ringo was one of the best drummers of all time.

I'm pretty sure I read a Lennon quote, where someone said to Lennon that Ringo was the best drummer in the world, and Lennon's response was "he isnt even the best drummer in the Beatles!"

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srossi wrote:
Quattro wrote: honestly who cares about a band that ceased being relevant in the mid 80s?
They might not be relevant to our demographic anymore, but they're more relevant than they've ever been before.  They just released an album a month ago and it hit #1 everywhere.  So did the 2 before that.  They never had 3 #1 albums in what we would consider their prime.  Their 5 albums post-2000 (not including the one just released) did 11, 6, 7, 4, and 4 million sales, monster totals for this time period.  They're also selling out a stadium tour this summer.  No other '80s band can do any of this and few bands of any kind can.  U2 is the only possible exception I can think of.


who are buying these albums

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Quattro wrote: srossi wrote:
Quattro wrote: honestly who cares about a band that ceased being relevant in the mid 80s?
They might not be relevant to our demographic anymore, but they're more relevant than they've ever been before.  They just released an album a month ago and it hit #1 everywhere.  So did the 2 before that.  They never had 3 #1 albums in what we would consider their prime.  Their 5 albums post-2000 (not including the one just released) did 11, 6, 7, 4, and 4 million sales, monster totals for this time period.  They're also selling out a stadium tour this summer.  No other '80s band can do any of this and few bands of any kind can.  U2 is the only possible exception I can think of.


who are buying these albums

Middle aged divorced women whose lives suck.

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http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/foundation-gets-big-boost-from-bon-jovi-1.1224679

Foundation gets big boost from Bon Jovi

Colleen Schmidt, CTV Calgary
Published Thursday, April 4, 2013 4:07PM MDT


Rocker Jon Bon Jovi has made good on his promise of a big donation to a local charity after guitarist Ritchie Sambora was a no show at the concert on Tuesday.

One hour before hitting the stage, Bon Jovi announced his longtime guitarist Richie Sambora was bowing out of the tour.

In front of the sold-out crowd, Bon Jovi announced that they would donate $100,000 to the Calgary Homeless Foundation to make up for it.

On Thursday morning, the cheque was delivered to the foundation.

“It was pretty exciting. I mean it just gives everybody a lift and reminds you that ya what we are doing is important and there are many, many, many individuals who are also committed to see if we can do something to end homelessness and poverty,” said Louise Gallagher from the Calgary Homeless Foundation

The homeless foundation is connected to about 140 other agencies and the donation could help as many as two dozen people over the next year.

Read more: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/foundation-gets-big-boost-from-bon-jovi-1.1224679#ixzz2Ph4EVshB

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carpetbeggar wrote:
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/foundation-gets-big-boost-from-bon-jovi-1.1224679

Foundation gets big boost from Bon Jovi

Colleen Schmidt, CTV Calgary
Published Thursday, April 4, 2013 4:07PM MDT


Rocker Jon Bon Jovi has made good on his promise of a big donation to a local charity after guitarist Ritchie Sambora was a no show at the concert on Tuesday.

One hour before hitting the stage, Bon Jovi announced his longtime guitarist Richie Sambora was bowing out of the tour.

In front of the sold-out crowd, Bon Jovi announced that they would donate $100,000 to the Calgary Homeless Foundation to make up for it.

On Thursday morning, the cheque was delivered to the foundation.

“It was pretty exciting. I mean it just gives everybody a lift and reminds you that ya what we are doing is important and there are many, many, many individuals who are also committed to see if we can do something to end homelessness and poverty,” said Louise Gallagher from the Calgary Homeless Foundation

The homeless foundation is connected to about 140 other agencies and the donation could help as many as two dozen people over the next year.

Read more: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/foundation-gets-big-boost-from-bon-jovi-1.1224679#ixzz2Ph4EVshB



Looks like a smart PR move

Jon is smart about this, imo. I'm not a fan of the group @ all but Bon Jovi is a commodity to be bought & sold. Keep the ship moving steady & those checks coming in. Anybody that doesn't like it (including band members) can grab their hat, jump on their horse & move on. No biggie

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This is a main reason why folks like Mick Jones and himself are going to die with douche bottles, instead of roses, tossed upon their caskets.

Last edited on Mon Apr 8th, 2013 02:57 pm by Hymie Itsu

tamalie
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srossi wrote: Earlier this week it was announced that Richie Sambora was taking another leave of absence from Bon Jovi for "personal reasons".  This is always code for rehab, and Samboar actually just came out of rehab last year, so it wasn't very surprising.  But now it turns out that Sambora is still clean and left the band after a fight that almost turned physical between him and Jon.  It's been described as a classic "Jagger/Richards blow-up" and those close to Sambora say that it's probably over for good this time.  Richie's very comfortable and has been putting up with Jon for many years, and Jon has treated all his band members like contracted temps for at least 20 years now.  The guy seems like a brilliant businessman but impossible to deal with.  The more successful he's become in other enterprises, the more he manages Bon Jovi like a business, and that's only commendable to a certain point.  It's great that he's not blowing his money on drugs and hookers anymore and has amassed more wealth than probably anyone else out of the '80s scene, but at some point it's still rock 'n' roll and you need to have some heart.  Jon's been simply putting in his 9-to-5 and spitting insipid lyrics out of a machine utilizing market research and all this other crap that the band is unlistenable at this point, even live, which used to be their strong suit even after their studio albums started sucking.
Bon Jovi played the Xcel Energy Center, home of the Minnesota Wild, last night in front of 18,000 fans. Here's a link the Minneapolis Star Tribune's review which, interestingly, echos some of the points made by srossi.

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/201875511.html

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One band that's been doing the "hired hand" thing for 30 years is KISS.  The only members of KISS that own or owned any part of the band are Gene, Paul, Ace, and Peter.  I do not believe Peter held his ownership after 1980, but Ace did, and I think Ace held it for about ten years after he left the band.  I also think that when they did the reunion tour they were cut in for a good payday, but nothing at all like what Gene and Paul got.

Eric Carr, Eric Singer, Tommy Thayer, Bruce Kulick, etc. all received paychecks, never to my knowledge did they ever get any royalties.  Where I could be wrong is if they physically had songwriting credits...but as far as KISS is concerned, only paychecks.

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Bumping this to include this recent quote from JBJ, taking a pretty big shot at Sambora and how easy he is to replace as opposed to someone else, like, say The Edge.

“It’s getting more and more difficult every day to not just sit here and say something, because all I can say is this, it’s for personal reasons.  He’s been through it before, fortunately for us the same guy who filled in last time was available this time.  Life goes on, so if someone chooses not to be here then so be it.  Unlike if this were, God forbid, The Edge, and he for some reason couldn’t make a U2 show, it would be very difficult to just step in."

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Edge has such a distinct sound it would be much harder to replace him in U2
Sambora can be replaced , though I do prefer Sambora's voice , close to JBJ but less of the Boltonesque stuff, and Bon Jovi is still huge, not just divorced women, lotsa women , Jon is always on Oprah and such so the girls love him, my sister who is 50 goes every year and she wasnt in to them in the 80's at all

I see nothing wrong with running bands as a business, if there are four buddies who start and run a successful biz for 20 years and one of the partners dies, dopes out, leaves whatever, and the other 3 bring in a replacement of sorts, not going to share the business equally in most cases

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The shit I give about Bon Jovi could not be seen with the Hubbel telescope from 50 feet away.

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thunderbolt wrote:
The shit I give about Bon Jovi could not be seen with the Hubbel telescope from 50 feet away.



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