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Portalesman
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Memory has slipped. Why was he called the Rogue Horseman?

tamalie
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I think the idea was Brian Pillman was in the group, but was saying and doing whatever he wanted regardless of the overall Horseman agenda. I can't recall if that was an offical WCW moniker or an unofficial nickname given to Pillman by the growing group of online fans. As an example of Pillman's conduct was one angle in which he was mouthing off at someone (Kevin Sullivan?) and Arn Anderson told Pillman to cool it, finally slapping him in the face when he didn't. Pillman displayed submerged rage in the aftermath, but deferred to Arn Anderson. This probably happened right before the "I respect you bookerman" deal with Sullivan and Pillman's worked firing.

Last edited on Thu May 2nd, 2013 08:42 pm by tamalie

Portalesman
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Thanks. So most likely, it was an early internet nickname.

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I think Pillman was supposed to lead a faction called 'The Apocalypse' vs. The Four Horsemen/Dungeon of Doom in the days before the NWO.

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tamalie wrote: I think the idea was Brian Pillman was in the group, but was saying and doing whatever he wanted regardless of the overall Horseman agenda. I can't recall if that was an offical WCW moniker or an unofficial nickname given to Pillman by the growing group of online fans. As an example of Pillman's conduct was one angle in which he was mouthing off at someone (Kevin Sullivan?) and Arn Anderson told Pillman to cool it, finally slapping him in the face when he didn't. Pillman displayed submerged rage in the aftermath, but deferred to Arn Anderson. This probably happened right before the "I respect you bookerman" deal with Sullivan and Pillman's worked firing.
It is largerly forgotten because of all of the NWO crap that happened in '96, but that first six months of Nitro (Fall '95 into early '96)  had some really cool shit.  I also liked the Luger tweener angle at the time.

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Blazer wrote:
tamalie wrote: I think the idea was Brian Pillman was in the group, but was saying and doing whatever he wanted regardless of the overall Horseman agenda. I can't recall if that was an offical WCW moniker or an unofficial nickname given to Pillman by the growing group of online fans. As an example of Pillman's conduct was one angle in which he was mouthing off at someone (Kevin Sullivan?) and Arn Anderson told Pillman to cool it, finally slapping him in the face when he didn't. Pillman displayed submerged rage in the aftermath, but deferred to Arn Anderson. This probably happened right before the "I respect you bookerman" deal with Sullivan and Pillman's worked firing.
It is largerly forgotten because of all of the NWO crap that happened in '96, but that first six months of Nitro (Fall '95 into early '96)  had some really cool shit.  I also liked the Luger tweener angle at the time.


Agreed. I honestly thought the first year of Nitro (September 1995 to September 1996) was the best year of the series. By October 1996 with Piper's arrival, it became clear that what seemed like an outstanding potential 7 month nWo angle would be stretched out and watered down to at minimum 20 months (and it went much longer).

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Never got the appeal of Pillman.  I always thought the guy tried too hard to put himself over.

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I thought the "Rogue Horseman" was an ECW thing.

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I could be wrong but Pillman wore a Rogue Horseman T-Shirt in WCW and it would piss off Arn.

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kwangman39 wrote: Blazer wrote:
tamalie wrote: I think the idea was Brian Pillman was in the group, but was saying and doing whatever he wanted regardless of the overall Horseman agenda. I can't recall if that was an offical WCW moniker or an unofficial nickname given to Pillman by the growing group of online fans. As an example of Pillman's conduct was one angle in which he was mouthing off at someone (Kevin Sullivan?) and Arn Anderson told Pillman to cool it, finally slapping him in the face when he didn't. Pillman displayed submerged rage in the aftermath, but deferred to Arn Anderson. This probably happened right before the "I respect you bookerman" deal with Sullivan and Pillman's worked firing.
It is largerly forgotten because of all of the NWO crap that happened in '96, but that first six months of Nitro (Fall '95 into early '96)  had some really cool shit.  I also liked the Luger tweener angle at the time.


Agreed. I honestly thought the first year of Nitro (September 1995 to September 1996) was the best year of the series. By October 1996 with Piper's arrival, it became clear that what seemed like an outstanding potential 7 month nWo angle would be stretched out and watered down to at minimum 20 months (and it went much longer).

Yes. I was living on the West Coast  during the time Nitro would come on at 6pm, then again at 9pm. I think in '96, they ran The Steiners-LOD match as opposed to RAW showing a Godwinns-Bodydonnas mantch. The Luger tweener angle was fun stuff too.

tamalie
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There were some decent things to Nitro in its early days from the fall of 1995 to mid 1996 before the NWO angle started. However, it's easy to look back through rose colored glasses and ignore the really bad stuff that went on.

- Hogan in his final months as a babyface was getting heel reactions and not taking it well.

- The Dungeon of Doom was at its peak of awfulness with the giant cage match fiasco and Loch Ness' push among the garbage.

- Ed Leslie's Booty Man gimmick was getting major air time.

- One Man Gang won the U.S. Title at a point when it still meant something.

- Eric Bischoff and Steve McMichael regularly took commentary to new lows on Nitro.

- The American Males won the tag team title even though that style of team was more at home in 1985 than 1995.

- We got the horrible John Tenta-Big Bubba feud.

- The Hogan handcuff angle when Elizabeth couldn't figure out how to use the cuffs, so Hogan cuffed himself to the post in full view of the cameras.

- The DDP is broke and homeless angle.

I liked the Luger tweener thing with Sting torn about siding with the babyfaces or his friend. The Savage-Flair feud had good heat. A number of big names returned after long absences. Hall and Nash made waves with their arrivals. However, Nitro was also utterly unwatchable during quite often during this time frame.

Last edited on Fri May 3rd, 2013 08:21 pm by tamalie

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tamalie wrote:
There were some decent things to Nitro in its early days from the fall of 1995 to mid 1996 before the NWO angle started. However, it's easy to look back through rose colored glasses and ignore the really bad stuff that went on.

- Hogan in his final months as a babyface was getting heel reactions and not taking it well.

- The Dungeon of Doom was at its peak of awfulness with the giant cage match fiasco and Loch Ness' push among the garbage.

- Ed Leslie's Booty Man gimmick was getting major air time.

- One Man Gang won the U.S. Title at a point when it still meant something.

- Eric Bischoff and Steve McMichael regularly took commentary to new lows on Nitro.

- The American Males won the tag team title even though that style of team was more at home in 1985 than 1995.

- We got the horrible John Tenta-Big Bubba feud.

- The Hogan handcuff angle when Elizabeth couldn't figure out how to use the cuffs, so Hogan cuffed himself to the post in full view of the cameras.

- The DDP is broke and homeless angle.

I liked the Luger tweener thing with Sting torn about siding with the babyfaces or his friend. The Savage-Flair feud had good heat. A number of big names returned after long absences. Hall and Nash made waves with their arrivals. However, Nitro was also utterly unwatchable during quite often during this time frame.



I actually found the reactions Hogan was getting in 1995 and early 1996. It was well deserved and watching him pout made it even more enjoyable. I also liked the way DDP was being booked as such a loser. In hindsight, he certainly had a bit more to offer, but I found his superpush from 1998 to 2000 to be more annoying than the way they booked him in 1995-96.

As bad as Bischoff and Mongo were, I did like the constant attacks on Raw. It gave the show an edge that was sorely lacking in wrestling at the time.

I definitely could have done without the Dungeon of Doom non-sense, but I never got the sense that they were the main heels anyway. They always seemed like background heels to the Horsemen.

I never found Nitro unwatchable until around May 1998. By September it picked up again. The same thing happened in 1999. In 2000, it became unwatchable in July and never recovered.

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The Luchadores, Tank Abbot and 3 Count made it all worth it.

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tamalie wrote:


- The DDP is broke and homeless angle.


This started off quite fun. The jobbers wearing DDP's gear that he had sold to them was pretty funny.

When DDP won the lottery and feuded with Johnny B. Badd over Kimberly and the money... that was pretty bad.

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I always got the impression Sting was gonna back Luger push come to shove.

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tamalie wrote:
There were some decent things to Nitro in its early days from the fall of 1995 to mid 1996 before the NWO angle started. However, it's easy to look back through rose colored glasses and ignore the really bad stuff that went on.

- Hogan in his final months as a babyface was getting heel reactions and not taking it well.

- The Dungeon of Doom was at its peak of awfulness with the giant cage match fiasco and Loch Ness' push among the garbage.

- Ed Leslie's Booty Man gimmick was getting major air time.

- One Man Gang won the U.S. Title at a point when it still meant something.

- Eric Bischoff and Steve McMichael regularly took commentary to new lows on Nitro.

- The American Males won the tag team title even though that style of team was more at home in 1985 than 1995.

- We got the horrible John Tenta-Big Bubba feud.

- The Hogan handcuff angle when Elizabeth couldn't figure out how to use the cuffs, so Hogan cuffed himself to the post in full view of the cameras.

- The DDP is broke and homeless angle.



I used to watch WCW World Wide ever week during this era. The Dungeon of Doom stuff was sad to see.

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Before the actual turn on July 7th, 1996 (Bash At The Beach), when exactly was the decision made to turn Hogan heel/when did he decide to do it?
Was the decision made before May 27th, which was Scott Hall's debut on Nitro?

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tamalie wrote:

- The Dungeon of Doom was at its peak of awfulness with the giant cage match fiasco and Loch Ness' push among the garbage.

- Ed Leslie's Booty Man gimmick was getting major air time.


- Eric Bischoff and Steve McMichael regularly took commentary to new lows on Nitro.





Real bad stuff right there.  The Dungeon of Doom was just a  complete and utter train wreck.  This is when Leslie would not go away.  Steve McMichael was unbearable on the mic and in the ring. 

Last edited on Sun May 5th, 2013 03:22 am by Papa Voo

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tamalie wrote: There were some decent things to Nitro in its early days from the fall of 1995 to mid 1996 before the NWO angle started. However, it's easy to look back through rose colored glasses and ignore the really bad stuff that went on.

- Hogan in his final months as a babyface was getting heel reactions and not taking it well.

- The Dungeon of Doom was at its peak of awfulness with the giant cage match fiasco and Loch Ness' push among the garbage.

- Ed Leslie's Booty Man gimmick was getting major air time.

- One Man Gang won the U.S. Title at a point when it still meant something.

- Eric Bischoff and Steve McMichael regularly took commentary to new lows on Nitro.

- The American Males won the tag team title even though that style of team was more at home in 1985 than 1995.

- We got the horrible John Tenta-Big Bubba feud.

- The Hogan handcuff angle when Elizabeth couldn't figure out how to use the cuffs, so Hogan cuffed himself to the post in full view of the cameras.

- The DDP is broke and homeless angle.

I liked the Luger tweener thing with Sting torn about siding with the babyfaces or his friend. The Savage-Flair feud had good heat. A number of big names returned after long absences. Hall and Nash made waves with their arrivals. However, Nitro was also utterly unwatchable during quite often during this time frame.


Good post, Tamalie.  There was no doubt an over-abundance of absolute shit being broadcast at the time. I guess I just wanted to point out that the Luger-tweener angle and some of the Horseman stuff at the time was fairly interesting.  It's almost like someone else (Sullivan maybe?) was booking that side of the company, and Hogan and Bischoff were booking the other shit.

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tamalie wrote:
- The American Males won the tag team title even though that style of team was more at home in 1985 than 1995.


I read once that this was basically to cheer Bagwell up, as he was going through a messy divorce.  They weren't champs for that long and at least it added an air of unpredictability to title matches.

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carpetbeggar wrote: Before the actual turn on July 7th, 1996 (Bash At The Beach), when exactly was the decision made to turn Hogan heel/when did he decide to do it?
Was the decision made before May 27th, which was Scott Hall's debut on Nitro?

I don't think so because everything I've ever heard about it said that Hogan wasn't originally on board at all and it took a lot of convincing for him to do it.  With that said, I remember a few interviews with him in the black even before Hall and Nash coming in and wondering what he was doing. 

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Superstar wrote: carpetbeggar wrote: Before the actual turn on July 7th, 1996 (Bash At The Beach), when exactly was the decision made to turn Hogan heel/when did he decide to do it?
Was the decision made before May 27th, which was Scott Hall's debut on Nitro?

I don't think so because everything I've ever heard about it said that Hogan wasn't originally on board at all and it took a lot of convincing for him to do it.  With that said, I remember a few interviews with him in the black even before Hall and Nash coming in and wondering what he was doing. 

I think that was in the Fall of '95 right after Halloween Havoc when Jimmy Hart turned on him, Kevin Sullinvan shaved half his mustache off, and had the WCW Title taken-off him on a 'technicallity'.

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Hogan was wearing black at the time, looking not unlike his Hollywood Hulk Hogan persona from several months later. Hogan also seemed to enage in a minor backlash against the negative fan reaction he received, the kind a wrestler usually makes when he's either about to turn or has just turned. Was this also the time period of him burning a copy of the Observer on TV?

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I actually thought Steve McMichael wasn't all that bad in the ring, especially for a guy who spent a whole career doing something else and just basically walked into wrestling. He was a perfectly acceptable big guy doing a football player gimmick. The fact that he sounded completely retarded on commentary is what kills him for everyone though.

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he was more retarded in the ring then on the mic.

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Chrisstlouis wrote: he was more retarded in the ring then on the mic.

that really is a toss-up.  He was horrible in both aspects. I thought he should have looked much better in the ring for the time he invested into preparing for it.

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Papa Voo wrote: Chrisstlouis wrote: he was more retarded in the ring then on the mic.

that really is a toss-up.  He was horrible in both aspects. I thought he should have looked much better in the ring for the time he invested into preparing for it.

Didn't he use the tombstone as a finisher too? I remember hearing something about him dropping Regal on his head.



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