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When DID Vince really take over?  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 02:31 pm
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NCJames

 

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So exactly when  did Vince take over from his dad?  Specifically what were the first decisons that were hisand not his dad's?   The massive nationwide touring hadnt started until after his father passed but was dad on board with Hogan coming back and getting th strap and monster push?

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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 02:43 pm
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srossi

 

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Sr. was very sick at the end. It's impossible to know what he was aware of, much less what he approved of. Jr. bought the company in mid-'82 and Sr. was dead by mid-'84. Pancreatic cancer is brutal so he might not have known where he was for a year before that. Jr. has been pretty protective of his father and hasn't discussed the end, that I'm aware of. A lot of traditionalists with rose-colored glasses have tried to make the case that Sr. would not have approved of most of Jr's actions, but almost anyone who actually knew Sr. knew he was a businessman first and foremost and would've approved of anything that took his company to the heights that it reached and made the type of money that it did.

Also, the idea that Jr. had some sort of epiphany about a nationwide company is pretty silly. That was clearly where the business was going and had to go, and the WWF already had a relationship with USA Network. Other companies had cable deals or were trying to get them too. It was just a matter of logistically and financially getting the marketing together and developing a talent roster big enough to support national touring. Everyone wanted to do it, including Sr., but they were old, set in their ways, and didn't quite know how to or didn't want to take that kind of massive sink or swim risk. But the business was going national in the mid-'80s no matter what. It's revisionist history to suggest that Jr. thought of something brand new that hadn't dawned on anyone else. Cable changed wrestling, not Jr.

Last edited on Tue Nov 19th, 2013 02:47 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 08:02 pm
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Ron



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srossi wrote: A lot of traditionalists with rose-colored glasses have tried to make the case that Sr. would not have approved of most of Jr's actions, but almost anyone who actually knew Sr. knew he was a businessman first and foremost and would've approved of anything that took his company to the heights that it reached and made the type of money that it did.


And those traditionalists are also the ones who do not know that it was Vince Sr. telling Jr to lock down all his arenas to keep Bruno Sammartino from renting the same venues.  And that was indeed before the expansion years. If Vince hadnt bought the WWF till when everyone claims he did...  Why would Sr., be telling Jr. to lock down him bigger arenas? He would have done it himself.   Most do not know that what Jr. did in the expansion era to the big arenas around the country is exactly what his dad told him to do years before when everyone thought Vince Sr. owned it all.  And that is also one of the big reasons why Bruno and the McMahons had issues.  Locking Bruno out of renting arenas.

I am still one who thinks it went down the way I had heard years and years ago.  Company was sold to Vince Jr in 1979.  He had to pay Monsoon, Phil Zacko, and Arnold Skoaland each 100K before a certain day in full, if he couldnt pay them all off at the same time, it would go back to the original owners. And I never heard a price of what he had to pay his dad.

Basically Vince Jr was paying off 4 owners monthly from 1979 to 1982, and would not take full ownership of it till it was paid in full.   Monsoon was one of them agreeing to sell because he did not think Jr would be able to pay everyone off before the due date for final payment.  It was said that Vince k controlled the WWF title and Jr controlled the tag and intercontinental title.  Which would make sense looking at the WWF title not chaning hands, yet the tag and intercontinental changing alot.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 08:07 pm
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retroken



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Ron wrote: srossi wrote: A lot of traditionalists with rose-colored glasses have tried to make the case that Sr. would not have approved of most of Jr's actions, but almost anyone who actually knew Sr. knew he was a businessman first and foremost and would've approved of anything that took his company to the heights that it reached and made the type of money that it did.


And those traditionalists are also the ones who do not know that it was Vince Sr. telling Jr to lock down all his arenas to keep Bruno Sammartino from renting the same venues.  And that was indeed before the expansion years. If Vince hadnt bought the WWF till when everyone claims he did...  Why would Sr., be telling Jr. to lock down him bigger arenas? He would have done it himself.   Most do not know that what Jr. did in the expansion era to the big arenas around the country is exactly what his dad told him to do years before when everyone thought Vince Sr. owned it all.  And that is also one of the big reasons why Bruno and the McMahons had issues.  Locking Bruno out of renting arenas.

I am still one who thinks it went down the way I had heard years and years ago.  Company was sold to Vince Jr in 1979.  He had to pay Monsoon, Phil Zacko, and Arnold Skoaland each 100K before a certain day in full, if he couldnt pay them all off at the same time, it would go back to the original owners. And I never heard a price of what he had to pay his dad.

Basically Vince Jr was paying off 4 owners monthly from 1979 to 1982, and would not take full ownership of it till it was paid in full.   Monsoon was one of them agreeing to sell because he did not think Jr would be able to pay everyone off before the due date for final payment.  It was said that Vince k controlled the WWF title and Jr controlled the tag and intercontinental title.  Which would make sense looking at the WWF title not chaning hands, yet the tag and intercontinental changing alot.
and which would basically mean that Backlund stayed champ for all those years because Vince Sr was sick in bed but still controlled the title

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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 08:12 pm
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Ron



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Thats another rumour/myth I also would like to know how much truth is in it.  A lot of wrestlers from back then said Sr would fly up from Florida for the garden cards only. With him only missing the last one or two cards before his death.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 09:56 pm
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TerryWWWF



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Ron wrote:
srossi wrote: A lot of traditionalists with rose-colored glasses have tried to make the case that Sr. would not have approved of most of Jr's actions, but almost anyone who actually knew Sr. knew he was a businessman first and foremost and would've approved of anything that took his company to the heights that it reached and made the type of money that it did.

  It was said that Vince k controlled the WWF title and Jr controlled the tag and intercontinental title.  Which would make sense looking at the WWF title not chaning hands, yet the tag and intercontinental changing alot.


Well, there's also the matter of the company title being much more meaningful than the tag and IC titles. The belt defined the promotion, while the other two were either an added attraction or a main event for B shows where the belt wasn't present. Switching the other titles allowed for some variety without really affecting the overall course of the promotion.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 10:43 pm
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Ultimark



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I agree generally that cable changed wrestling. However, Vince won the war of expansion in the end and basically made his cartoon a national phenomena thanks to some smart marketing, Hulk Hogan and the rock and wrestling connection. I greatly preferred GCW then Crockett. For me, it wasn't even close.

I have to give Vince credit though. In the end, he won.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 10:51 pm
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Ron



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Sadly I am one who always said the fans won.  And that the fans wanted garbage they couldnt belive in.  If the fans would not have paid or flocked to the arenas, the WWF would have never pulled it off. 

If the fans would not have bought into it, we might have more wrestling like the other areas were offerening.  Not saying territorial system would have survived. but more wrestling

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 Posted: Tue Nov 19th, 2013 11:05 pm
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Ultimark



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Ron wrote:
Sadly I am one who always said the fans won.  And that the fans wanted garbage they couldnt belive in.  If the fans would not have paid or flocked to the arenas, the WWF would have never pulled it off. 

If the fans would not have bought into it, we might have more wrestling like the other areas were offerening.  Not saying territorial system would have survived. but more wrestling


I am just a mark for the old style I guess.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2013 01:23 am
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TerryWWWF



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Once kayfabe died, human comic book characters may have been the inevitable re-brand.

I remember when WCW did their "We wrestle" thing to counteract all of Vince's silliness. But they were still "working," so what was the fundamental difference?

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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2013 05:48 am
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Ron



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Differemnce is Vince took away the style I belived in and wanted to belive in, even  tho I knew it was a act.  He replaced it with a different style.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2013 09:31 pm
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DJP

 

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I picked up the History of WWE documentary yesterday and there's a story under the special features section exclusive to Blu-Ray called "Titan Sports".

Linda McMahon says that she and Vince incorporated Titan Sports in 1980 to handle his independent promotions, as he was promoting wrestling in Bangor, Maine as well as other events like boxing and rock concerts in Cape Cod. They used wrestlers supplied by Capitol Wrestling Corporation, Vince's dad's company, for the wrestling shows, but Vince paid all the expenses that went into it, including paying Capitol for the talent. If it made money he kept the proceeds, but if it didn't he took the loss. She also said Vince chose the name Titan for the company from seeing the book "Raise the Titanic" on the bookshelf.

She said that they bought Capitol from Vince's dad and the other partners in 1982 and took over operations at that time. They had to make four quarterly payments and there was no grace period. If they missed a payment, ownership reverted back to the partners and they kept whatever money had already been paid.

So from the way she described it, it seems the answer to the question is they bought Capitol in 1982, but weren't completely free and clear until 1983. Makes sense since in Ole's book he said that the McMahons and Jim Barnett, who was working for them by that time, all withdrew from the NWA at the August 1983 meeting.

Last edited on Wed Nov 20th, 2013 09:35 pm by DJP



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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2013 10:00 pm
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Sad_Astronaut



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Another awesome thread.  Great discussion.

 



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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2013 10:31 pm
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Ultimark



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DJP wrote:
I picked up the History of WWE documentary yesterday and there's a story under the special features section exclusive to Blu-Ray called "Titan Sports".

Linda McMahon says that she and Vince incorporated Titan Sports in 1980 to handle his independent promotions, as he was promoting wrestling in Bangor, Maine as well as other events like boxing and rock concerts in Cape Cod. They used wrestlers supplied by Capitol Wrestling Corporation, Vince's dad's company, for the wrestling shows, but Vince paid all the expenses that went into it, including paying Capitol for the talent. If it made money he kept the proceeds, but if it didn't he took the loss. She also said Vince chose the name Titan for the company from seeing the book "Raise the Titanic" on the bookshelf.

She said that they bought Capitol from Vince's dad and the other partners in 1982 and took over operations at that time. They had to make four quarterly payments and there was no grace period. If they missed a payment, ownership reverted back to the partners and they kept whatever money had already been paid.

So from the way she described it, it seems the answer to the question is they bought Capitol in 1982, but weren't completely free and clear until 1983. Makes sense since in Ole's book he said that the McMahons and Jim Barnett, who was working for them by that time, all withdrew from the NWA at the August 1983 meeting.


Would love to know the details of that meeting in 83. All this talk about how Vince Sr. would have been very upset at Vincent K's expansion is a bunch of crap. The old man was a promoter and he, like all promoters, understood the economics quite well. There was no idealism.

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 Posted: Wed Nov 20th, 2013 11:38 pm
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srossi

 

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When did Sr. actually get sick? Pancreatic cancer kills very quickly, but some here seem to be suggesting that he was ill for years.



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