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Blazer



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Rank the AWA Supercards from best to worst.

Here's what we have to work with:

Super Sunday 1983, Bockwinkel vs. Hogan, Gagne & Vachon vs. Blackwell & Kaissie)

SuperClash 1985, Martel vs Hansen, Road Warriors vs. Freebirds)

SuperClash 2 1987, Bock vs. Hennig, Russ Francis in a tag match)

SuperClash 3  1988, Lawler vs. Von Erich)

Brawl in St. Paul(Dec '86, Bock v. Hennig 1)

Rage in the Cage(1985, Miscellaneous Tag Team Hijinx, Bock and Saito team?)

WrestleRock '86(April '86, Bock v Hansen, Martel v. Race, US Express v. Fabs, Road Warriors v. Garvin/Hayes, Brody/Nord v. Snuka/Gagne)

Am I missing anything?  There was a show in Chicago on SportsChannel in 1989 that was brutal.

Last edited on Wed May 20th, 2015 07:06 am by Blazer

Blazer



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Title should be Supercards, mods.

What's the deal with the line spacing?

tamalie
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The AWA had stadium shows in Chicago in 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976, and 1980, all at Comiskey Park except the 1972 show at Soldier Field.

1970 - Bruiser and Crusher vs. Vachons in a cage, Verne vs. Von Raschke

1972 - Bruiser and Crusher vs. Blackjacks in a cage, Verne vs. Koloff, Bockwinkel and Stevens vs. Robinson and Snyder

1974 - Verne vs. Robinson, Bruiser and Brazil vs. Sheik and Heenan, and Crusher, Hennig, and Putski vs. Bockwinkel, Stevens, and Superstar Graham

1976 - Bruiser and Crusher vs. Lanza and Duncum in a cage, Bockwinkel vs. Andre

1980 - Verne vs. Bockwinkel, Bruiser vs. Blackwell, Battle Royal

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Green Bay hosted that Tag Team Spectacular in March 1984 with a Jumbo vs Robinson AWA title match on top. Not sure if Blazer wants more added.

Out of his original list, Super Clash '85 is on top and everything else is second by a wide margin. WrestleRock '86 would be I guess the runner up, but I didn't like many of the matches. It has a grittiness in its presentation that probably was better viewing in person. SC85 has it too, with better matchups, but isn't a stand alone AWA card if judged fairly.

the squared circle
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Sorry to hijack, but why was there no superclash in 86?

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tamalie wrote: The AWA had stadium shows in Chicago in 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976, and 1980, all at Comiskey Park except the 1972 show at Soldier Field.

1970 - Bruiser and Crusher vs. Vachons in a cage, Verne vs. Von Raschke


This one took place on the night I was born.  I remember the action well.

khawk
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This is how I would rank the original list:

 

1)    Super Sunday 1983, Bockwinkel vs. Hogan, Gagne & Vachon vs. Blackwell & Kaissie)

2)    SuperClash 1985, Martel vs Hansen, Road Warriors vs. Freebirds)

3)    WrestleRock '86(April '86, Bock v Hansen, Martel v. Race, US Express v. Fabs, Road Warriors v. Garvin/Hayes, Brody/Nord v. Snuka/Gagne)

4)    SuperClash 3 1988, Lawler vs. Von Erich)

5)    Brawl in St. Paul(Dec '86, Bock v. Hennig 1)

6)    SuperClash 2 1987, Bock vs. Hennig, Russ Francis in a tag match)

      Super Sunday gets the nod on top because it was the biggest show with pretty much strictly AWA talent on the bill (Lawler appearing on the card is the only non-regular on the show from that time frame IIRC. Maybe Dizzy Boulder too, but I can forgive that in the prelims.)

Super Clash I was a huge show with a fair bit of imported talent. You could seriously tell that the LOD vs. The Freebirds was one everyone wanted to see. I'd love to see a cut of this without the crowd noise filtered out to get a better feel for that show. Larry Nelson commentating over muted crowd noise makes it feel like less than it actually was.

EDIT: Forgot a note on Wrestlerock, a big show to be sure but again a show with plenty of imports that quite frankly could have been done at the Civic Center with a Closed Circuit overflow ala Super Sunday given the amount of people that were there (22000 is the number most often quoted). In the first half of the show the building looked very, very empty and it sort of filled in over time as things went.
Besides, any show with a Giant Baba vs. Bulldog Bob Brown match on it can't rate any higher than third on any list. :)

SC III, not a great show, still gets the nod in fourth because it was actually promoted nationwide as a Supercard, complete with more than local PPV, and a title vs. title match that actually promised a winner.

Brawl in St. Paul was an excellent show but was only a local PPV type of deal. If they had found a way for the Rockers to get the title in the Cage against Rose and Somers that night this one might bump up a spot or two on my list. It was criminal that they stretched that feud out ANOTHER month and the title change played for less than 1000 at the fucking Met Center of all places.

Super Clash II was a dynamite show but honestly it was years later that I found out the whole card was taped and I have no idea if it maybe had a local PPV going in the Bay Area...I doubt it. Without that, nobody knew it was a "Supercard" outside of the people in the arena.

FWIW I get why Verne tried the Cow Palace for that show, as they had drawn a huge crowd a couple of months previous with a not-so-great card IIRC. It was worth a shot. The visual of so many brightly coloured empty seats, which the cameras could not hide in shadow no matter how hard they tried, hurts the show visually.

The 74 Comiskey Park show with Robinson vs. Verne on top was probably the second biggest AWA show behind Super Sunday in terms of importance and anticipation to AWA fans. I won't rate the 70's ones as I've only seen bits and pieces of most of them.

That's how I see them.



Last edited on Wed May 20th, 2015 03:06 pm by khawk

Blazer



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The Super Clashes were spaced about a year and a half apart.  The first one was late Sept '85, then May 2 '87, then Dec '88.

tamalie
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the squared circle wrote: Sorry to hijack, but why was there no superclash in 86?
There was no intention of making it an annual event at the time. For that matter, Super Clash II was a glorified house show that received no national build up in 1987.

beejmi
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Has anybody ever tried piecing together the Comiskey Park shows [video] to make a complete card or close as possible?

Might be too much 'Bob Luce' for one sitting but thought I'd ask

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tamalie wrote: The AWA had stadium shows in Chicago in 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976, and 1980, all at Comiskey Park except the 1972 show at Soldier Field.

1970 - Bruiser and Crusher vs. Vachons in a cage, Verne vs. Von Raschke

1972 - Bruiser and Crusher vs. Blackjacks in a cage, Verne vs. Koloff, Bockwinkel and Stevens vs. Robinson and Snyder

1974 - Verne vs. Robinson, Bruiser and Brazil vs. Sheik and Heenan, and Crusher, Hennig, and Putski vs. Bockwinkel, Stevens, and Superstar Graham

1976 - Bruiser and Crusher vs. Lanza and Duncum in a cage, Bockwinkel vs. Andre

1980 - Verne vs. Bockwinkel, Bruiser vs. Blackwell, Battle Royal
  I attended every one of these cards. Here's how I rank them.

1. 1970...Bruiser & Crusher vs Vachons in a cage was the dream match up then. The matches they had at The Amphitheatre were all out bloody wars and the cage wasn't used in ages in Chicago. Might have been the first cage match ever in Chicago. Gagne and the Baron had a big build up. Rashcke was billed as an unbeatable machine. My friends and I celebrated my 16th birthday at Comiskey this night then walked from there to Ricobenes to eat again.

2. 1974... Gagne vs Robinson was the match we all talked about. We all thought Robby was winning the belt that night. Sheik got a super build up as he hadn't been in Chicago for years. We knew about the Sheik-Bruiser wars from the magazines.

3. SuperClash 1985... throw this one in too. Many stars and too good of a card not to go. I may have been the only one in attendance that was glad to see Crusher, Bruiser & Rashcke instead of Rhodes & The Rock & Roll Express.

4. 1976.. Cage tag match was brutal. Andre vs Bockwinkel not good.

5. Soldier Field 1972... the cage match was fantastic but Soldier Field was probbaly the worst place I ever saw a card in.

6. 1980... Everyone knew Gagne was going to win the belt that night. A close friend of Bock's even called me a few days before to tell me that she was not coming in because Nick had told her that he was losing so don't bother coming in.

Luce also ran Super Bowl cards once a year around Nov/Dec which were stacked. They were all great cards too.




Blazer



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I know Gagne/Robinson was shown on Luce's highlight show on Channel 26, and I definitely remember seeing clips from the Soldier Field cage match. Heenan was bleeding like a stuck pig.

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Blazer wrote: I know Gagne/Robinson was shown on Luce's highlight show on Channel 26, and I definitely remember seeing clips from the Soldier Field cage match. Heenan was bleeding like a stuck pig.
You could see Heenan actually vomiting in the ring at the end of the cage match. In his book Heenan said he had a bad case of the flu but Bruiser told him the show must go on. Sounds like Bruiser.

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4. 1976.. Cage tag match was brutal. Andre vs Bockwinkel not good.


Care to explain further?

Chitown Rich

 

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beejmi wrote: 4. 1976.. Cage tag match was brutal. Andre vs Bockwinkel not good.


Care to explain further?


The cage match was Champs Lanza & Duncum against  Crusher & Bruiser for the AWA tag titles in Chicago. Lanza & Duncum were a bloody mess (as was Heenan) but won the match when Nick Bockwinkel came to ringside and handed them brass knucks through the cage. Crusher got clobbered and quickly pinned.

C&B then bloodied up Heenan and the cage door was opened and Heenan, Duncum, Lanza and Bockwinkel are all heading back to the dugouts all bleeding (except for Bock).
It was a great match and that's what I meant by brutal. Lots of blood.
This tag match is on You Tube. Not sure if Khawk has it or not.

Andre vs Nick just wasn't any good. Nick did his best but Andre just didn't do anything to make the match interesting. Not sure if this one is on You Tube.

Last edited on Thu May 21st, 2015 05:31 am by Chitown Rich

Blazer



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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS02p60bSlI

Aug 27, 1976. I was four years old. Tag match starts around the 7:50 mark. Really cool to see Old Comiskey Park in the footage.

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Blazer wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS02p60bSlI

Aug 27, 1976. I was four years old. Tag match starts around the 7:50 mark. Really cool to see Old Comiskey Park in the footage.


Thanks for the link Blazer. It was great watching the old footage again.

Two other things i remember about this.

1. There was a 6 man tag match with The High Flyers & Wilbur Snyder beating Ox Baker, Mad Dog Vachon and Baron Von Rashcke. In TV interviews leading up to the match Ox Baker kept saying that his team was without question the best looking team of all time. The end of the match saw Vachon and Von Rashcke each hit Baker by mistake...right after one another. Ox got mad and left the ring. The High Flyers double drop kicked Vachon for the pin while Baron and Snyder were going at it.

2. We found out there was a card at Rockford Boylan HS Field the next night so we decided to go. Had no idea who was on the card but we went anyway. About 10 miles before Rockford there's a stalled car on the side of the road and we see it's Ox with 3 of his groupies. I knew them from before because they were always driving Ox everywhere and they were always at the matches. Huge girls. They were nicknamed the Ox-ettes. Well we helped get them started and we followed them to the field.
We pull in and we met Crusher and told him he and Bruiser were robbed the night before. He grumbled something and went in the locker room. Then Larry Hennig came out of his car and I asked him why wasn't he on the Comiskey park card the night before. He got really kind of angry and said, "What Comiskey card?" and we told him all about it and he was steamed. His final words before he went in were, "Wait til I find out why I wasn't on that fuckin' card!" He was probably mad because he missed a good payoff.

Last edited on Thu May 21st, 2015 07:15 pm by Chitown Rich

khawk
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Chitown Rich wrote: 1. There was a 6 man tag match with The High Flyers & Wilbur Snyder beating Ox Baker, Mad Dog Vachon and Baron Von Rashcke. In TV interviews leading up to the match Ox Baker kept saying that his team was without question the best looking team of all time. The end of the match saw Vachon and Von Rashcke each hit Baker by mistake...right after one another. Ox got mad and left the ring. The High Flyers double drop kicked Vachon for the pin while Baron and Snyder were going at it.


 

There is film of this match, albeit distant and dark, but it exists.

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I think the real coveted footage would be of Chitown Rich twisting the knife and stirring the pot with the boys... Without really trying.

tamalie
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Chitown Rich wrote: 3. SuperClash 1985... throw this one in too. Many stars and too good of a card not to go. I may have been the only one in attendance that was glad to see Crusher, Bruiser & Rashcke instead of Rhodes & The Rock & Roll Express.

5. Soldier Field 1972... the cage match was fantastic but Soldier Field was probbaly the worst place I ever saw a card in.


What was the background to Dick The Bruiser, The Crusher, and Baron Von Raschke being in the six man tag team match against Ivan and Nikita Koloff and Krusher Khrushchev instead of Dusty Rhodes and the Rock & Roll Express?

I have a good idea why, but could you elaborate on what made Soldier Field such a bad venue?

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tamalie wrote: Chitown Rich wrote: 3. SuperClash 1985... throw this one in too. Many stars and too good of a card not to go. I may have been the only one in attendance that was glad to see Crusher, Bruiser & Rashcke instead of Rhodes & The Rock & Roll Express.

5. Soldier Field 1972... the cage match was fantastic but Soldier Field was probbaly the worst place I ever saw a card in.


What was the background to Dick The Bruiser, The Crusher, and Baron Von Raschke being in the six man tag team match against Ivan and Nikita Koloff and Krusher Khrushchev instead of Dusty Rhodes and the Rock & Roll Express?

I have a good idea why, but could you elaborate on what made Soldier Field such a bad venue?


I have no idea why Crusher, Bruiser and Baron were added. I think it had to do with Bruiser & Crusher were wrestling gods in Chicago and Verne added them into the match. Plus they knew Baron would do the job with no questions asked. When the card was first announced it was Rhodes and The Rock and Roll Express for maybe a week being announced. Next week I watched and it was Bruiser , Crusher & Baron. Anyway to me it was great seeing them together one last time even though you  know they had no chance of winning the belts.

Soldier Field was too damn big for a card. No public transportation to speak of as it's right on Lake Shore Drive. Also it was held on a Labor Day weekend. There was an announced crowd of 12,000. Bruiser & Crusher vs the Blackjacks sold out the Amphitheatre a few times without the cage and here it's a cage  match with Gagne vs Koloff and you don't draw that much more. Something was wrong. Andre also made his debut on this card and there was a lot of talent but something didn't click. If I remember right the prices were outrageous for the time also. That 12,000 attendance was like having 20,000 paid with normal ticket pricing at the time.

There's a thread on KM about why the card failed to draw more and why Soldier Field wasn't such a great place to hold it. I'll try to find it.

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I'll echo KHawk's order of the original list.

I remember hearing about SC2 about a week or so after it happened here in CA. Really wasn't a huge super card on any more of a level than Battle by the Bay or War in the Windy City.

Verne tried several more big shows over the years that don't measure up. Rage in Rochester, Superclash 4, Twin Wars 90...

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beejmi wrote:
Might be too much 'Bob Luce' for one sitting

There's no such thing. 

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beejmi wrote: Has anybody ever tried piecing together the Comiskey Park shows [video] to make a complete card or close as possible?


That's a fantastic idea. KHawk, please do this...you have more of the necessary footage than I do. 

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Battle by the Bay was the June '86 show that was shown on ESPN, correct? I've seen bits and pieces of it, including what I recall a pretty good match between Hansen and Blackwell.

Was "Blood on the Sand" an actual event or does it just refer to the Rockers v. Rose/Somers bloodbath match from Vegas?

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I think it was a just named to put out on DVD well after the fact. The card itself wasn't advertised as a special event outside of Vegas that I know of.

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Yeah, that's what Blood on the Sand was. That show actually had a real AWA release on VHS overseas.

tamalie
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Blood on the Sand became a supercard of sorts after the fact. I don't recall it getting any hype prior to occurring by that or any other title.

Last edited on Tue May 26th, 2015 08:03 pm by tamalie



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