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beejmi
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I guess mine would be that I never believed Lee Harvey Oswalt killed Kennedy. Inside job as in inside our government.

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We never went to the moon.

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Almost all of them. Yep, I'm a paid in full member of the tin foil hat club. I think multiple shooters on JFK, moon landing was probably a hoax. 911 totally engineered by Cheney and Co. If you take the time and really read the volumes of stuff that's out on this there's just tons of great information. I know debunkers always go with that 'you can't prove that', but if your a reasonably intelligent person you connect the dots and it's pretty obvious that a lot of times, the 'official story' is bullshit.

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9/11 was an inside job.

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I've always found conspiracy theories very compelling, what are some good websites to check out?

WongLee
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cookie32723 wrote: I've always found conspiracy theories very compelling, what are some good websites to check out?
This is a good place to start. Go to the forums tab and see every imaginable conspiracy theory under the sun...........if that really is the sun............Just be warned there is some VERY wacky shit on here. Tremendous entertainment.
http://www.davidicke.com/
The other great one is Center for an Informed America. This guy goes back to Lincoln but the tour de force on this site is Inside the LC which attempts to show how every 60's and 70's West Coast rock star was REALLY receiving their paycheck from the CIA. If your into the rock scene of the 60's and 70's at all, it is some fascinating reading.
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/
 

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Roswell and Area 51

beejmi
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Sacramento vs Lakers 2002 playoff series fixed

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JFK Assassination

09/11

thunderbolt
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I tend to believe the plane which went down over PA on 9/11 was brought down by the Air Force on Executive order.

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thunderbolt wrote: I tend to believe the plane which went down over PA on 9/11 was brought down by the Air Force on Executive order.This I also believe to be possible.

Anyone thinking the rest of 9/11 was a Bush conspiracy is out there.

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I to believe the 9/11 plane over PA was probably shot down.

I believe Michael Jordan's dream of playing baseball retirement was to hide his gambling suspension.

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The Ultimate Sin wrote: I to believe the 9/11 plane over PA was probably shot down.



I think this is the case too and I would bet more people believe it than we might realize. There is no upside to exposing a "conspiracy" like that, however. I mean, if it was shot down that sorta HAD to happen, and I don't think anyone would question that part of it.

Last edited on Mon Aug 31st, 2015 11:50 am by khawk

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It's so obviously true that I dong even know if it counts as a conspiracy theory anymore, but there's no doubt in my mind that FDR and our government allowed Pearl Harbor to be bombed so that America could enter WWII. I hope that's pretty clear to everyone at this point. We forced Japan's hand and the last thing they wanted was for us to enter the war, and then we knew about it for ages before it happened. They almost wanted us to stop them and we refused. 

Last edited on Mon Sep 7th, 2015 05:25 pm by srossi

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I believe WongLee is in the employ of the CIA, because no-one with a bit of sense could believe that David Icke is anything other than an unfortunate chap who had a huge nervous breakdown years ago.

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I tend to believe the plane which went down over PA on 9/11 was brought down by the Air Force on Executive order.

There were local reports from people who said that fighter jets passed by the crash site around 90 seconds after impact.

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thunderbolt wrote:
I tend to believe the plane which went down over PA on 9/11 was brought down by the Air Force on Executive order.
This I also believe to be possible.

HBF wrote:
Anyone thinking the rest of 9/11 was a Bush conspiracy is out there.

Eric, you're correct, Bush was too stupid to come up a plan for 9/11. Others however, had hands involved and Bush couldn't do anything about it.

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Famous Mortimer wrote: I believe WongLee is in the employ of the CIA, because no-one with a bit of sense could believe that David Icke is anything other than an unfortunate chap who had a huge nervous breakdown years ago.
Actually I'm not really up on what Icke is all about. I hear he thinks that the Queen of England is from a reptilian race. Hey, can you prove that she's NOT a reptile? His message board kicks ass as far as pure entertainment value. A lot of interesting stuff and a lot of nutters. Excellent reading and mucho fun.

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The Ultimate Sin wrote

I believe Michael Jordan's dream of playing baseball retirement was to hide his gambling suspension.
This is pretty much confirmed from a source that was on those White Sox teams in the early 90's and comes from one of my best friends.

An odd note: I've seen Michael Jordan play baseball against the Braves @ Fulton County Stadium in March/April 1994. I've never seen him play basketball.

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HBF wrote: The Ultimate Sin wrote

I believe Michael Jordan's dream of playing baseball retirement was to hide his gambling suspension.
This is pretty much confirmed from a source that was on those White Sox teams in the early 90's and comes from one of my best friends.

An odd note: I've seen Michael Jordan play baseball against the Braves @ Fulton County Stadium in March/April 1994. I've never seen him play basketball.

This has never made any sense to me. They covered up a gambling suspension and sent him to baseball, but they couldn't just cover it up period and let him continue to be the biggest gate in NBA history?  Um, no. That's not how cover-ups work. 

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I would not say 09/11 was a Bush-controlled false flag exercise, but I have spoken to enough people with military demolition/ explosives background who have said that the mere collapse of those buildings is evidence enough that there were controlled explosives involved. All the people who I have spoken to in a personal level said that the structural interior collapse to occur in one building would be rare but have the same tendencies in two or more at the same site is bizarre.  I believe the reasoning given was due to jet fuel flowing down through the interior causing an inferno within the structure. Mant said just by construction standards that you would be more likely to see sectionalized segments falling or remain standing rather than an inward collapse.

Last edited on Tue Sep 8th, 2015 09:53 pm by Papa Voo

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1- I love all the conspiracy theories about Denver's airport (DIA):
DIA Conspiracy Theories

(I like the creepy part about how a local commissioned artist was given a book about a United Nations conspiracy from airport officials)

But when I break it down, I think the only real conspiracy is that such awful "art" is allowed to accent the place. Chalk it up to bureaucracy, poor planning, miscommunication or just laziness. The luggage gargoyles, the strange gas mask/sickle painting, the "Atlantis" mess at Terminal 1's train station, etc. Plus the later arrivals, such as the famous "Blue Devil Horse" and the new hotel that resembles a whale tail.



2- I tend to believe that something was up with the John F. Kennedy assassination. Exactly what, I don't know.. but the one thing that always sticks out to me is that (allegedly) the full contents of the Warren Commission are not supposed to be revealed until 50 years after the last offspring of all involved has died.

My favorite JFK theory is that it was it was orchestrated by Joe DiMaggio and the mafia, as revenge for JFK banging Marilyn Monroe. If nothing else, I think that'd make a great Coen Brothers film.



3- Ted DiBiase and "Evil" Earl Hebner at "The Main Event" in February 1988. For the record, there was no plastic surgery involved; that was just in Hogan's postmatch rant. The real story (as confirmed in WWF Magazine) was that DiBiase went to Earl Hebner, the EVIL twin brother of "Good" Dave Hebner. See, when they were kids, Evil Earl would sneak down early, on Christmas morning, and put his name on Good Dave's presents.

After The Main Event fallout, we were told by Jack Tunney that we could be assured that only the REAL "Good" Dave Hebner would be allowed in a WWF ring, in the future.

What's fascinating about this, to me, is that Earl Hebner became the lead WWF official in the 90's. So DiBiase's crooked referee actually succeeded in taking over the entire WWF referee locker room. That would explain some of the stupid shenanigans over the years.

Still, I think "Evil" Earl had some morals. After all, he kept us from being subjected to a title reign for any member of the Million Dollar Corporation.

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The Denver Airport one is interesting. Saw that one chronicled on Jesse Ventura's old show.

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I believe conspiracy theories are made up by governments to distract us from their real evil deeds.

I also believe that the C.I.A is the biggest drug dealer in America.

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Erick Von Erich wrote: 3- Ted DiBiase and "Evil" Earl Hebner at "The Main Event" in February 1988. For the record, there was no plastic surgery involved; that was just in Hogan's postmatch rant. The real story (as confirmed in WWF Magazine) was that DiBiase went to Earl Hebner, the EVIL twin brother of "Good" Dave Hebner. See, when they were kids, Evil Earl would sneak down early, on Christmas morning, and put his name on Good Dave's presents.

After The Main Event fallout, we were told by Jack Tunney that we could be assured that only the REAL "Good" Dave Hebner would be allowed in a WWF ring, in the future.

What's fascinating about this, to me, is that Earl Hebner became the lead WWF official in the 90's. So DiBiase's crooked referee actually succeeded in taking over the entire WWF referee locker room. That would explain some of the stupid shenanigans over the years.

Still, I think "Evil" Earl had some morals. After all, he kept us from being subjected to a title reign for any member of the Million Dollar Corporation.

I actually think it was Dave who screwed Bret...not Earl.  Earl took the heat because he owed one to Dave for hooking him up with bootleg WWF T-shirts in his St. Louis warehouse.

beejmi
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UFOs. I believe all of that stuff. Government cover-up.

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I'm also in the camp about UFO'S. Look at how quick technology improved in a short amount of time. Do you think Humans came up with some of this stuff?

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Here is a question I read about a few months ago?

Do you think many of these conspiracy theories are inter-related? Examples would be the links to the UFOs, to the New World Order, to the JFK assassination, to 09/11, etc.

You can take that question from a governmental perspective, a religious perspective, etc.

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Papa Voo wrote: Here is a question I read about a few months ago?

Do you think many of these conspiracy theories are inter-related? Examples would be the links to the UFOs, to the New World Order, to the JFK assassination, to 09/11, etc.

You can take that question from a governmental perspective, a religious perspective, etc.

If you believe that there is a one world government (NWO), then all these can be interlinked.
Some believe that all the major powers are working with aliens for a variety of reasons. Obviously if this is true it would be beyond top secret and only the elite of the elite would know.
JFK was aware of the NWO and wanted to stop it. We know what happened there.
911 would be a false flag operation in order for the U.S., the U.K., and Israel to monopolize the oil in the Middle East by creating a bogey man of the Muslim people who of course control a lot of the oil.
I'm not stating any of these as hard facts. But these are pretty much the way conspiracy folks see things. I do happen to agree with much of it.

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Conspiracy theories are fed by Government agents to divert attention from the real shit that's going down.

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WongLee wrote:  
JFK was aware of the NWO and wanted to stop it. We know what happened there.


Yep.  He took a big boot and legdrop while Hall and Nash spray painted his limo.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfVs3WaE9Y
Nayirah al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيره الصباح‎), called "Nurse Nayirah" in the media, was a fifteen-year-old Kuwaiti girl, who alleged that she had witnessed the murder of infant children by Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait, in verbal testimony to the U.S. Congress, in the run up to the 1991 Gulf War. Her testimony, which was regarded as credible at the time, has since come to be regarded as wartime propaganda. The public relations firm Hill & Knowlton, which was in the employ of Citizens for a Free Kuwait, had arranged the testimony. Nayirah's testimony was widely publicized. Hill & Knowlton, which had filmed the hearing, sent out a video news release to Medialink, a firm which served about 700 television stations in the United States. That night, portions of the testimony aired on ABC's Nightline and NBC Nightly News reaching an estimated audience between 35 and 53 million Americans. Seven senators cited Nayirah's testimony in their speeches backing the use of force. President George Bush repeated the story at least ten times in the following weeks. (Wikipedia)

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beejmi wrote: I guess mine would be that I never believed Lee Harvey Oswalt killed Kennedy. Inside job as in inside our government.http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-reston-jfk-assassination-target-20161122-story.html
JFK wasn't the target...new report 

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In regards to WW11 and PH, I had a CO who once told me that he knew the gov let it happen. According to him, Japan actually declared war first. The gov held onto the information (which was several hours prior to the attack)to ensure the attack would proceed and even sent the carriers out to sea.

True? I have no idea. I know he believed it. As for most conspiracy theories, I don't buy into 99% of them. I will say the Kennedy killing still strikes me as odd. Why would a 2 bit owner of a strip club kill Oswald? I never understood that. Also, I know it was 1963 but they paraded Oswald back and forth at least a dozen times and actually held a news conference with him. Something just never felt right.

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Yes, that story was proven to be completely made up.  Hussein and his family were butchers and I am glad they are dead.  However, his claim to Kuwait was not without historical precedent.  The lines of that region were drawn up by the British.
There is no doubt  that girl's story was false.  I don't even think that is a theory. 
 

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I believe that Dean Blandino, Jeff Fisher, and Skip Bayless all have (or had) pictures of incriminating evidence of their employer/boss as it's the only possible explanation for them keeping their jobs.

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HBF - that pretty much has to be true. Norv Turner has pics on everyone in the NFL.

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My uncle (former marine) claims to have been on a US ship that Israel opened fire on back around 1970. Says the captain of the ship went to his grave with 'that secret'.

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Ultimark wrote: HBF - that pretty much has to be true. Norv Turner has pics on everyone in the NFL.Norm was a good OC though, at least until this year's Vikes, right? Am I missing something?  The others are all very bad at their jobs.

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I think Steve Fisher is being viewed unfairly. Fisher twice took the Titans from doormats to being a good team. That club, then still the Houston Oilers, was en route to a 2-14 season when he took over in 1994 with six games to go. By 1999 they were in a Super Bowl and in the midst of a five year run that had them win between 11 and 13 games every season but one. They dipped down again, but came back up with big 2007 and 2008 seasons.

He took charge of the Rams in 2012. The rams from 2008 to 2011 had records of 2-14, 1-15, 7-9, and 2-14, which I believe is the most losses ever in a four season stretch in NFL history. The Matt Millen led Lions never sank so low, not even when counting the 0-16 season. Jeff Fisher had to rebuild the Rams almost as if they were an expansion team. Clearly he has taken them as far as they can go although the defense is starting to click. My opinion is the Rams felt the players had enough to worry about this past offseason with the relocation and that bringing in a new head coach for 2016 would have been too much. He has two years to go after this, but likely won't be back unless the Rams dramatically turn things around in the home stretch. However, there are some good pieces for his successor already in place.

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Tamalie, you're a smart guy but on the Fisher topic I'll agree to disagree.  He's living off what he did in the 90's with a good GM and Steve McNair.  They had good drafts during the Spagnaulo years and afterwards to get the team some hope. I don't think Fisher made those calls.  And he's a bad (at best, average) head coach who is tarnished for being a dirty one as well.

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HBF - I think Turner is living off of what he did more than 20 years ago.

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beejmi wrote: My uncle (former marine) claims to have been on a US ship that Israel opened fire on back around 1970. Says the captain of the ship went to his grave with 'that secret'.
Why do you and Rossi hate the jews so much. What's it gonna be to make you two happy. Seven million....Eight million....??? Does your bloodlust have any limits?

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Ultimark wrote: HBF - I think Turner is living off of what he did more than 20 years ago.Well, you might be correct about that, but he did do a great job with Rivers and SD a few years ago so I might have missed a portion of his time.  You're saying what Beej and I always say about Shanahan, but I have followed his shennanigans a lot closer than Norv.

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I believe you guys are conspiring to hijack this thread to talk about coaches you don't like.



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Angelic Assassin wrote: I believe you guys are conspiring to hijack this thread to talk about coaches you don't like.




Okay, fair enough and I'll get it back on track.

One of the more recent theories that was disproven was Stingy crossing the country and killing S&W posters, including Mike3775.  DFG (I think) made some pretty strong arguments.

Crimmy having cats that don't use the litter box is another theory although I don't know anyone that's ever gotten close enough to him to confirm that.

Last edited on Wed Nov 23rd, 2016 02:34 pm by HBF

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I don't think I buy it for a second, but is anybody paying attention to this Comet Ping Pong and Pizza (a pizza restaurant near WAshington DC) John Podesta, Hillary Clinton, child sex trafficking conspiracy?

http://pizzagate.host/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3

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http://culturecrossfire.com/etc/crime-mystery/stantonfriedmancosmicwatergate/

UFO investigator Stanton Friedman covers the Roswell case, politicians and astronauts who have spoken about alien life being real, the mechanical and technical necessities of interplanetary flight, evidence of UFO landings and more!

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thunderbolt wrote: I tend to believe the plane which went down over PA on 9/11 was brought down by the Air Force on Executive order.
The flight was observed by another pilot, moments before it went down, rocking its wings and flying erratically at a low altitude.  This is consistent with the passengers fighting back and the hijackers trying to thwart them by pitching the airplane up and down and from side to side. ATC tapes of his observations are on Youtube.  This pilot never once mentioned the presence of a military plane.  Are any of you familiar with how loud those planes are?  If one had been flying at that altitude, low enough to shoot down UA93, it would have been widely reported by people from miles and miles around the crash site. 
 
The ATC tapes from that day are the easiest way to debunk the Troofers.  In the case of flight 93, there is a brief burst of screaming as the hijackers enter the cockpit, and almost immediately, pilots flying in the vicinity remark to Cleveland Center that they just witnessed flight 93 descend abruptly.  These pilots then continue to give Cleveland reports of erratic flying while at the same time there are other, likely accidental, transmissions by the hijackers on flight 93.  And of course everyone, via radar and visual, then see the plane turn around and head southeast toward Washington.  This was the case with all 4 flights.  Their odd flight patterns were observed by many pilots.  It was a crystal clear day on the East coast and these were professionals who would quickly notice anything out of the ordinary.   

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Why was there a debris field of three miles for Flight 93? Including a one ton engine found 2000 yards away from the impact.

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Trump Campaign's Russian Ties ;)

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KGB wrote: thunderbolt wrote: I tend to believe the plane which went down over PA on 9/11 was brought down by the Air Force on Executive order.
The flight was observed by another pilot, moments before it went down, rocking its wings and flying erratically at a low altitude.  This is consistent with the passengers fighting back and the hijackers trying to thwart them by pitching the airplane up and down and from side to side. ATC tapes of his observations are on Youtube.  This pilot never once mentioned the presence of a military plane.  Are any of you familiar with how loud those planes are?  If one had been flying at that altitude, low enough to shoot down UA93, it would have been widely reported by people from miles and miles around the crash site. 
 
The ATC tapes from that day are the easiest way to debunk the Troofers.  In the case of flight 93, there is a brief burst of screaming as the hijackers enter the cockpit, and almost immediately, pilots flying in the vicinity remark to Cleveland Center that they just witnessed flight 93 descend abruptly.  These pilots then continue to give Cleveland reports of erratic flying while at the same time there are other, likely accidental, transmissions by the hijackers on flight 93.  And of course everyone, via radar and visual, then see the plane turn around and head southeast toward Washington.  This was the case with all 4 flights.  Their odd flight patterns were observed by many pilots.  It was a crystal clear day on the East coast and these were professionals who would quickly notice anything out of the ordinary.   

My wife's company had an office 10 minutes from the crash site and people said that fighter jets flew over the crash site not even 15 seconds after the plane went down. It was shot down.

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Why did the pilot in the first recording below not report that?  Why would the hijackers have deployed their landing gear so far from their intended target?  Why would they have been flying so low?  Why would they have rocked their wings?  These observations are consistent with what we later learned happened on board.  Why do the cockpit voice recorders contain the sounds of a struggle and of the hijackers deciding to ditch the plane?  Why wouldn't a single relative of the passengers spill the beans on this stuff?  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.




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I just had one question. Why was the debris field so large? Crashing straight into the ground does not eject an engine weighing over a ton 2000 yards away. Thousands of smaller pieces were found up to three miles away. That is not consistent with a nose first crash even at a high speed of impact.

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I never really believed 9/11 was inside job or conspiracy of some sort. Always saw 'truthers' as kooks addicted to conspiracy porn. But because of the way things have played out since 9/11 & where we are today, I'm fully on board with that entire episode being an orchestrated event using 'terrorists' who were really something like secret double agents. Bush was a moron so I seriously doubt he was clued in. He was more of the lap dog after the fact

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Infamous wrote: I never really believed 9/11 was inside job or conspiracy of some sort. Always saw 'truthers' as kooks addicted to conspiracy porn. But because of the way things have played out since 9/11 & where we are today, I'm fully on board with that entire episode being an orchestrated event using 'terrorists' who were really something like secret double agents. Bush was a moron so I seriously doubt he was clued in. He was more of the lap dog after the fact
Bush didn't need to be in the know for it to be an "inside job". That's why they have Generals and other people in the military and other branches of Government.

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I don't know that I fully believe it, but there is a lot of compelling substantial evidence that Adolf Hitler may have escaped Germany and lived out the remainder of his life in South America.

I certainly don't believe all the Nazi leaders they claim were killed in Germany at the end of World War II were as it seems there is evidence that speaks otherwise for many of them.

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Talk to anybody credible who works in demolition.

Those towers collapsed under planned demolition explosions. You would actually see the opposite occur; the buildings would have went down in fragments under the jet fuel theory.

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Papa Voo wrote: Talk to anybody credible who works in demolition.

Those towers collapsed under planned demolition explosions. You would actually see the opposite occur; the buildings would have went down in fragments under the jet fuel theory.

Invisible explosive devices?  Please provide video evidence of any controlled demolition, before or since, in which no visible explosions took place prior to the collapse of the building.  And don't bother pointing to the jets of air coming out of the building after it's started collapsing, those are the result of the floors pancaking on top of each other.  Same story with building 7.  There were no explosions prior to the building collapsing.
 
As for the "generals" and sundry other nefarious characters who carried this out, what about all the grunts who would have had to be accomplices, right down to the demolition experts who placed these alleged explosives (and did it undetected)?  It would have to encompass hundreds, if not thousands of people.  Not one of them has come clean?  Not a single one?  Are all of them utterly devoid of a conscience?  That beggars beliefs.

(edit to correct number of building 7)

Last edited on Fri Apr 21st, 2017 05:19 pm by KGB

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WongLee wrote: I just had one question. Why was the debris field so large? Crashing straight into the ground does not eject an engine weighing over a ton 2000 yards away. Thousands of smaller pieces were found up to three miles away. That is not consistent with a nose first crash even at a high speed of impact.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a5688/debunking-911-myths-flight-93/

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The one thing that undermines any conspiracy theory is people talk, often multiple people. It can be bragging, drunken rambling, guilt or just the inability to keep a secret. Things get out. Conspiracy theories are fun, but most are just things to kick around fill time with. Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed.

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Dude, I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment, but that Popular Mechanics debunking has been throughly debunked.

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tamalie wrote: The one thing that undermines any conspiracy theory is people talk, often multiple people. It can be bragging, drunken rambling, guilt or just the inability to keep a secret. Things get out. Conspiracy theories are fun, but most are just things to kick around fill time with. Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed.I think that people mistakenly believe that to pull off something like 9/11 you need and evil team of thousands of sinners to make it work. With a few high ranking politicians and military men pulling the strings, every can fall into place nicely. For example, NOT giving the order for fighters to NYC and DC to intercept the airliners even an hour after the planes showed to be off course and flying erratically. Small teams of demolition experts to place the charges in the towers. A couple of guys to wire up the planes for remote control. Probably all career military intelligence who know what will happen if they squeal.

Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed? Not by a long shot.

The Mafia
MK Ultra
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Northwoods
The 15 year old Arab girl who said that Iraqi soldiers pulled babies out of incubators
Iran/Contra
Gulf of Tonkin
CIA dealing drugs
Operation Paperclip

The list goes on.

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WongLee wrote: Dude, I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment, but that Popular Mechanics debunking has been throughly debunked.

The Popular Mechanics article was pure BS and shredded by demolition experts after it was released.  They had a debate with the people in the article and they were getting dogged, but the host of the news program kept interrupting and "trying" to shoot holes through the opposing experts opinions but it made the PM side look even worse. 


Sorry, I just noticed that the PM article was about Flight 93.  There was also a big story on the collapse of the towers in PM and that is what I was referring to.


Populsr Mechanics must have received some nice $$$$ padding to try and dispel the 09/11 questions and theories. 

Last edited on Sat Apr 22nd, 2017 12:57 am by Papa Voo

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tamalie wrote: The one thing that undermines any conspiracy theory is people talk, often multiple people. It can be bragging, drunken rambling, guilt or just the inability to keep a secret. Things get out. Conspiracy theories are fun, but most are just things to kick around fill time with. Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed.

Imagine if somebody began screaming into media microphone every step in the 09/11 conspiracy.  The government agencies would have that person for lunch.  They would make them look like a whack job, because it is probably fair to say that these people are unknown to the public and their backgrounds would probably be covert or modified.  
Trust me, there are things out there that would amaze us all. 

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WongLee wrote: tamalie wrote: The one thing that undermines any conspiracy theory is people talk, often multiple people. It can be bragging, drunken rambling, guilt or just the inability to keep a secret. Things get out. Conspiracy theories are fun, but most are just things to kick around fill time with. Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed.I think that people mistakenly believe that to pull off something like 9/11 you need and evil team of thousands of sinners to make it work. With a few high ranking politicians and military men pulling the strings, every can fall into place nicely. For example, NOT giving the order for fighters to NYC and DC to intercept the airliners even an hour after the planes showed to be off course and flying erratically. Small teams of demolition experts to place the charges in the towers. A couple of guys to wire up the planes for remote control. Probably all career military intelligence who know what will happen if they squeal.

Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed? Not by a long shot.

The Mafia
MK Ultra
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Northwoods
The 15 year old Arab girl who said that Iraqi soldiers pulled babies out of incubators
Iran/Contra
Gulf of Tonkin
CIA dealing drugs
Operation Paperclip

The list goes on.

I'll temper my comment and say that while few conspiracies exist, keeping the ones that do truly a secret is as difficult as I described it. The Mafia wasn't a secret to anyone. Many of the items on the list were barely secrets and were known to some extent even while contemporary. I think conspiracy theories are fun and while occasionally real serve a greater purpose of enabling people to grasp and attempt to make sense of or peace with things that have no explanation, can't be explained or can be explained so simply that people can't or won't accept that that's all there is to it.

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I'll throw one in here that I don't believe rather than do believe, but which will remain with us in some form for ages to come. All U.S. military Vietnam War POWs were returned in accordance with the Paris peace agreement. There were not any held back or kept in Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia at any time under any circumstances nor spirited off to someplace else. The MIAs are all people who were either verifiably killed in action with the bodies not recovered or whom the overwhelming body of evidence suggests were killed in action with the bodies not recovered. The number of the truly missing has been misunderstood, misrepresented, and exploited by numerous persons and groups over the past 44 years. The number of persons who are truly missing, as in they went on a mission and never returned, is extremely low and even then the issue is not knowing a general idea of where to look for the body. The government has been painted into a corner by itself and others on the issue and thus can't get real and say to people that anyone who was alive is home and everyone else is dead.

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tamalie wrote: WongLee wrote: tamalie wrote: The one thing that undermines any conspiracy theory is people talk, often multiple people. It can be bragging, drunken rambling, guilt or just the inability to keep a secret. Things get out. Conspiracy theories are fun, but most are just things to kick around fill time with. Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed.I think that people mistakenly believe that to pull off something like 9/11 you need and evil team of thousands of sinners to make it work. With a few high ranking politicians and military men pulling the strings, every can fall into place nicely. For example, NOT giving the order for fighters to NYC and DC to intercept the airliners even an hour after the planes showed to be off course and flying erratically. Small teams of demolition experts to place the charges in the towers. A couple of guys to wire up the planes for remote control. Probably all career military intelligence who know what will happen if they squeal.

Few real conspiracies have ever actually existed? Not by a long shot.

The Mafia
MK Ultra
Operation Mockingbird
Operation Northwoods
The 15 year old Arab girl who said that Iraqi soldiers pulled babies out of incubators
Iran/Contra
Gulf of Tonkin
CIA dealing drugs
Operation Paperclip

The list goes on.

I'll temper my comment and say that while few conspiracies exist, keeping the ones that do truly a secret is as difficult as I described it. The Mafia wasn't a secret to anyone. Many of the items on the list were barely secrets and were known to some extent even while contemporary. I think conspiracy theories are fun and while occasionally real serve a greater purpose of enabling people to grasp and attempt to make sense of or peace with things that have no explanation, can't be explained or can be explained so simply that people can't or won't accept that that's all there is to it.
 
While it's true the Mafia wasn't a secret. The U.S. Government and the F.B.I.'s official stand on it was it didn't exist. That's what makes a conspiracy. The government either denying something exists (Mafia, WMD, Iran Contra) or deflecting the public from the truth with half fabrications.

The Vietnam POW thing you brought up is interesting. We have elite level politicians like McCain and Kerry swearing up and down that we left guys over there. If we did, someone had to benefit from it. Who would benefit? I couldn't say.

Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2017 10:08 pm by WongLee

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Ann Coulter is really a Tranny.

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Principal_Raditch wrote: Ann Coulter is really a Tranny.You would think that me of all people would know that.

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http://culturecrossfire.com/etc/crime-mystery/stantonfriedmanalienabductions/
Stanton Friedman covers the infamous abduction of Betty and Barney Hill, quotes from politicians and others on the reality of UFOs truly existing, leaked government papers on UFO investigations, the Alien Autopsy video, and other evidence.

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tamalie wrote: I'll throw one in here that I don't believe rather than do believe, but which will remain with us in some form for ages to come. All U.S. military Vietnam War POWs were returned in accordance with the Paris peace agreement. There were not any held back or kept in Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia at any time under any circumstances nor spirited off to someplace else. The MIAs are all people who were either verifiably killed in action with the bodies not recovered or whom the overwhelming body of evidence suggests were killed in action with the bodies not recovered. The number of the truly missing has been misunderstood, misrepresented, and exploited by numerous persons and groups over the past 44 years. The number of persons who are truly missing, as in they went on a mission and never returned, is extremely low and even then the issue is not knowing a general idea of where to look for the body. The government has been painted into a corner by itself and others on the issue and thus can't get real and say to people that anyone who was alive is home and everyone else is dead.This picture will always haunt me:  Satellite photo of a ‘Walking K’ sign in a rice field in northern Laos by a US Satellite in 1988. (US Govt. Photo)

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It is indeed a haunting photo although a Laotian farmer claimed his son was responsible and Hmong who were affiliated with U.S. forces during the war, failed to escape the country afterward, and sought evacuation lived nearby.

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It took a year for the government to even find that image after it was taken, and the locals "testimony" has been scrutinized. For the POWs sake, I hope your correct.

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I just came across this one today on my FB newsfeed. I have never heard anything like it before and it's fascinating because it's original.

I am but a very casual fan of the Grateful Dead. I've seen them six times, usually kicking and screaming by my Deadhead friends. I do not long to hear 28 minute versions of Dark Star that go seamlessly into Jack Straw. Garcia as a guitarist doesn't even register on the Wong Richter Scale. But like Springsteen, there are a bunch of single songs by them that I like alot.

True Deadheads usually cite the 5/77 show at Cornell University in Ithaca New York as the greatest Dead show of all time. But did it really happen? One Mr. Barefoot Bob in the Phish forums makes an argument that the show never happened and was a CIA mind control experiment. A fun read however far fetched it is. Don't forget, the lead guitarist name is GarCIA. Read and enjoy.

http://forum.phish.net/forum/show/1295323689

"I am moving into my new home soon and in packing - I came across this old printout within my tapes, that I forgot about. I personally never believed it but just wanted to get some of your thoughts. (Sorry for the length - so you may want to pop in the show as you read)...

I understand why most people think that 5/8/77 was real as can be. It's widely considered to be the holy grail of GD shows. And if it was an actual, real show, it would be just that. But the fact is, that it was a HOAX perpetrated through a joint effort of the US Department of Defense and the CIA. And this is nothing new. My uncle served in ‘Nam with one of the guys that were actually *in* the CIA experiment. Hell, if you don't believe me, it's even on the archive!

There's been a lot of talk lately about the legendary fake show on 5/8/77. I've kept my silence on the subject for 22 years ... now it's finally time to come clean on the whole subject.

The whole idea began back in late 1969/early 1970. The Department of Defense and the CIA were very disappointed by the way the Vietnam War was progressing. Not only were we losing but, more importantly, the US public did not approve of the war and, worse yet, weren't believing everything the military said about what was happening. This was an unprecedented event. Every other recent war was viewed positively by the public ... or at least with apathy in the case of Korea. Something had to be done. They decided to take a page from the Soviets and experiment with mind control. Together with Disney and a fledgling computer company called Microsoft, they set out to prove that brainwashing could really work on the very people who opposed
them: the hippies.

It isn't widely known but Cornell was actually the second test of these mind control procedures. The first occurred in mid-1975 and was a dismal failure. 2 major mistakes were made. First, they picked the one time that the Dead were not touring. This created all sorts of problems with the subject audience. The more serious mistake was in not updating the criteria of the experiment. Due to typical government inefficiency, they used the 1969 version of the Dead that was playing when the program was conceived. The sudden appearance of Pigpen, who had died 2 years earlier, literally blew the minds of those in attendance. 6 months were spent erasing all traces of the "show" and carefully rebuilding as much of their minds as possible. The
subjects were eventually released and most of them became evangelists, their only lingering memory of the whole experiment being an unshakeable belief that they'd witnessed a true miracle.

Unfortunately, no tapes have been found from this first experiment. That's a real shame because the version of Dark Star-> St Stephen-> Eleven-> Lovelight used was supposedly the best ever. After a few drinks, the original scientists still speak in awe about the music heard that day.

By Nov 1977, everyone was ready for the second test. This time, they learned from their mistakes. A small group of college students were hired to attend shows from 1976 through 1977. Our job was to collect tapes of the Dead's performances, select which tunes to use, and to
help identify subjects for the upcoming experiment. The location and date were chosen with equal care. It was a off-day during the tour and the location close enough to the real concerts to be believed. Of more
importance was the late snowfall that day. That unusual and easily confirmed event provided the glue that would hold the implanted memories together. Even now 22 years later, people "remembering" that concert use almost identical words to describe leaving the show.

Overall, the experiment was a great success. Of course, some people were given slightly different memories. Some, like Teddy Goodbear, "remember" taping the show and were even provided "Audience" tapes to further cement the hoax. Still others remember getting "horribly smashed" up front. None of this actually occurred.

A week after the "concert" experiment, a 2nd test was done on the town of Cornell itself. In order to perfect this hoax, the town itself must also be convinced that the concert took place. Disney had acquired owner- ship of all the local TV and radio stations through dummy corporations. Using special chips developed by Microsoft, they played sublimbminal messages to every man, woman and child in a 100 mile radius of Barton Hall. For the most part, this programming still holds today although some people did prove resistant to the message.

As far as the source of the music, for the most part the list posted by "brew ziggins" is correct. The only mystery remaining is the Scarlet-> Fire. That was actually performed by the Dead specifically for this experiment. Since Jerry worked for the CIA, it was easy to convince him and the rest of the band to go along. Plus he liked the idea of "pranking" a large group of people like this. The fabled 2/6/77 "take a step back" rehearsal tape is also from material taped for these experiments.

The soundboard tapes in circulation were leaked by Betty O'Connell who
edited the original tapes. I don't know if it was just a coincidence or not, but they were leaked at about the same time as the tapes recorded by Betty Cantor were found. In any event, they became part of the so-called "Betty Boards". Leaking these tapes also provided the first cracks in the hoax to appear since the tapes were distributed to people who were not in the experiment and who knew that no show was performed that day. It was necessary to obtain their silence through blackmail, bribery and in extreme cases, mind control itself. That's also how this "show" came to be listed in all the popular Dead show guides like DeadBase.

So what's happened to these mind control techniques used in this experiment? Microsoft has used this power to become one of the biggest, most influential companies in history. They sure didn't become that big by providing quality products. It was used to shape public reaction to the Gulf War. It's also clear that George Bush never understood the full power of these methods. . There are also indications that this technology might explain the otherwise unbelievable popularity of rap music.

That's the whole story.

"BARTON HALL, ITHACA, NY 5/8/77 -- The Show That Never Happened"

Track listing Actual Source
------------ ---------------
1.Minglewood Blues [4] Winterland 3/20/77
2.Loser [7] Springfield 4/23/77
3.El Paso [4] Chicago 5/13/77
4.They Love Each Other [6] Lakeland 5/21/77
5.Jack Straw [6] Tempe 10/6/77
6.Deal [5] St. Paul 5/11/77
7.Lazy Lightnin' [3] > St. Louis 5/15/77
8.Supplication [4] "
9.Brown-Eyed Women [5] Winterland 6/8/77
10.Mama Tried [2] Seattle 9/29/77
11.Row Jimmy [10] Fox, Atlanta 5/19/77
12.Dancin' in the Streets [15] Pembroke Pines 5/22/77 (DP3)

Set II:

13.Scarlet Begonias [9] > ???
14.Fire on the Mountain [15] ???
15.Estimated Prophet [8] Passaic NJ 4/27/77
16.St. Stephen [4] > Mostly Passaic NJ 6/18/76
17.Not Fade Away [16] > with some tricky splicing of the
18.St. Stephen [1] > middle of an unidentified NFA
19.Morning Dew [13] Cow Palace 12/31/76

Encore:

20.One More Saturday Night [4] Springfield 4/23/77

... so, I actually listend to some of these other recordings and I must admit, very, very interesting."

Last edited on Wed May 3rd, 2017 05:12 pm by WongLee

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So if I wasn't in Barton Hall where was I?

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Note that the conspiracy minded teller of the tale refers to the town of Cornell when the school is actually in Ithaca.

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Franchise wrote: So if I wasn't in Barton Hall where was I?Well that's exactly what they told you to say isn't it. ..

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tamalie wrote: Note that the conspiracy minded teller of the tale refers to the town of Cornell when the school is actually in Ithaca.
Not only that but he got the month wrong too. It's still a fun read.

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http://culturecrossfire.com/etc/crime-mystery/mysteriousoriginsman/

This article offers a look at a NBC special which covered evidence that human history may be radically different than accepted science tells us. Fossils suggest man and dinosaurs walked alongside one another. An archaeologist discovered tools in Mexico that suggested man has been around far longer than we believe - she was blackballed for pushing her evidence. Plus fossils that may be the "missing link", incredible buildings in Egypt and Bolivia are built with methods that defy comprehension, ancient maps show accurate depictions of continents that had supposedly not even been yet discovered, among other theories and evidence.

Last edited on Sat May 6th, 2017 07:59 am by Arnold_OldSchool

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Good stuff, Arnold.

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5/8/77 Dead show just got released on iTunes

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Franchise wrote: 5/8/77 Dead show just got released on iTunesOr was it?



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