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Do You Support Trump?  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 09:56 pm
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BlueThunder



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mike3775 wrote: The problem with Trump and immigration BT, is the fact that the way he is talking about it, is hurting his image.

Yes immigration is a problem, but building a wall is not going to solve the problem, if it was, how come the parts of the country on the southern border that already have a wall, not working?

Then you have him saying that he is going to monitor every single mosque to make sure a certain religious group is not planning something. Thats exactly what the old Soviet Union used to do, and also its almost exactly like what Germany did in the early 1930's.

Also putting Muslims on some sort of watch list? Exactly how is that going to work?

I am glad to see outsiders ruining both parties clear paths for their chosen ones(Bush/Clinton)


A wall will work. I believe migrants are rerouted where a wall doesn't exist. I agree he's hurting his image because he's crude and not polished. There is a way to convince people that illegal immigration is horrible for the country on many many levels, but he chose the worst possible way to convey his message. Tell me a sane country that allows illegals to come in so the host can pay for their education, health care, and in some states food and utilities.

Wrt muslims. Lincoln suspended the constitution in time of war. We have it worse now because we aren't fighting a nation. We're fighting an ideology that is entering our shores legally and as refugees. There is nothing wrong with banning practitioners of that ideology until the dust settles. Also, it's common sense to have every mosque hardwired to the FBI so we can monitor potential attacks.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 09:59 pm
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thunderbolt
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DaNkinator wrote: .

  ...your so called Messiah would be a liberal socialist too, considering that's what he taught most of the time (there's dozens of passages that show otherwise, but those get ignored too).



Such as?



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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 10:07 pm
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BlueThunder



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DaNkinator wrote: This idea that Christianity is any different than Islam is the biggest sham that so many of you believe.

Sure you'll wave your flag that not going around killing innocent people proves that (even though there are dozens of examples that show otherwise), but also fail to mention how Christians push their beliefs on the rest of the country through indoctrination into politics that is very unfair and damaging as well.

All it shows when you say stupid shit like "virus of Islam" and "follow their primitive rag" how undeniably (even though you'll continue to do so) racist, xenophobic, and utterly willfully ignorant you are. All religions are primitive, all religions preach the same shit. They preach tolerance in one passage and hate, bigotry, sexism, narcissism and so forth in another. You're both two sides of the same coin.

But reviewing answers like BT gave, and the follow up from rossi, and he's right. Every single counter point.

I get labeled as a liberal, and to a lot of degree, I am. Way more than most so called Christians (who, if you really followed your primitive rag instead of picking and choosing what should apply), who would notice that your so called Messiah would be a liberal socialist too, considering that's what he taught most of the time (there's dozens of passages that show otherwise, but those get ignored too).

And to say you're going by what he promises is the height of picking and choosing, the height of ignorance. You'll claim that Bernie or Hillary can't possibly carry out their promises without major changes to the constitution and/or bill of rights, but you gleefully jump on board a blowhard like Trump.   It'd be comical if it weren't so scary,  that having that kind of hate and prejudice wasn't so prevalent.


Yeah, the old testament advocates violence, but the Jews today do not follow the scripture to the letter. I believe that's called evolution. Sadly, in muslim countries, their laws are based on the Koran. Playing the equivalency card is beyond laughable. Countries with a Christian majority are usually the countries that give their citizens unlimited freedoms. You can't say that about muslim countries. Once thing I noticed about good liberal atheists like you is that if someone is criticizing Christianity, either your type is silent or they join in. When Islam is criticized, that's when the ol "Christianity is just as bad" card comes out. 

Don't we as voters usually vote for people who promise things we've wanted fora long time? I don't recall saying Bernie or Hillary can't live up to their promises. Of course Bernie would need an act of congress to raise everyones taxes, but we've learned that things can get done via executive order.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 10:11 pm
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srossi

 

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DaNkinator wrote: This idea that Christianity is any different than Islam is the biggest sham that so many of you believe.

Sure you'll wave your flag that not going around killing innocent people proves that (even though there are dozens of examples that show otherwise), but also fail to mention how Christians push their beliefs on the rest of the country through indoctrination into politics that is very unfair and damaging as well.

All it shows when you say stupid shit like "virus of Islam" and "follow their primitive rag" how undeniably (even though you'll continue to do so) racist, xenophobic, and utterly willfully ignorant you are. All religions are primitive, all religions preach the same shit. They preach tolerance in one passage and hate, bigotry, sexism, narcissism and so forth in another. You're both two sides of the same coin.


It's only different when it comes to the political realities of the situation.  Christian nations have mostly evolved politically, Islamic nations haven't.  So you can't really have a Christian nation do the things that Islamic nations can.  Pat Buchanon can become president and there's only so much he can do, whereas even a "moderate" Islamic leader (like many of the ones we keep propping up because we can't butt out) can and does cause widespread terror and chaos. 

Which ties into the point that Bill Maher always makes, that even though he's an atheist and hates all religions, at least Christians are mostly real moderates who wouldn't actually stone an adulteress to death even though the Bible might say it's OK.  Islamic moderates are still pretty into the whole "death to infidels" thing and there's just no getting around that.  This doesn't mean that every Muslim is actually going to kill someone, but it does mean that when others do it they are more likely to shrug their shoulders and say "Eh, kinda had it coming".  There are obviously some Christians like this too, but they're in fringe groups.  It's very mainstream thinking in Muslim countries.  These countries just haven't evolved  politically or economically yet to the point where they can push these primitive ideas to the back-burner. 

So the religions themselves are equally batshit crazy, but the practitioners are a bit different.  It's time we get out of Middle East politics, stop picking sides among all the nutjobs, and let them sort it out themselves.  If the majority really wants change, they'll organize and fight for it amongst themselves.  And eventually I think they can, because Christian countries did it centuries ago.  America can then concentrate on defense rather than war.        

Last edited on Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 10:13 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 10:15 pm
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srossi

 

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BlueThunder wrote: Wrt muslims. Lincoln suspended the constitution in time of war. We have it worse now because we aren't fighting a nation. We're fighting an ideology that is entering our shores legally and as refugees. There is nothing wrong with banning practitioners of that ideology until the dust settles. Also, it's common sense to have every mosque hardwired to the FBI so we can monitor potential attacks.
Lincoln was wrong and an overrated president.  As was liberal hero FDR when he sent the Japanese to internment camps.  And monitoring mosques is unconstitutional so there's that.  You don't fight terrorism by creating it, as we have done.  It's amazing how wrong both sides can be about the same issue.

Last edited on Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 10:15 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 10:54 pm
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srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote:  Neither have any conception of how any of this will work in reality, but we need to DO something, reality be damned!  They would have some great debates on Planet Unicorn in the Flying Spaghetti Monster galaxy.  
The optimist would look at this and hope that those without a clue how to do things would come up with some alternative solutions not previously tried.
The realist will understand that any way of doing things outside of the current systems won't ever have a chance of working since the system is designed to keep fresh ideas and thinking from being implemented.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 11:00 pm
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KGB

 

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DaNkinator wrote: I get labeled as a liberal, and to a lot of degree, I am. Way more than most so called Christians (who, if you really followed your primitive rag instead of picking and choosing what should apply), who would notice that your so called Messiah would be a liberal socialist too, considering that's what he taught most of the time (there's dozens of passages that show otherwise, but those get ignored too).


FFS.  Please show me where Christ said that salvation comes from being involuntarily shackled to the piety of others -- a piety always quite subjective.  He taught that humans saved themselves by exercising their free will and choosing to live by the precepts of morality established by God, taught by the prophets, and instinctively recognized by our human conscience.  Socialism and all collectivist ideologies dehumanize those forced to live under them by stripping away their natural born, moral liberties.  It sure as hell ain't Christian to demand that some version of the IRS compel your neighbor to "donate" to your pet causes.  There's no compulsion in charity.



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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 11:40 pm
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srossi

 

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khawk wrote: srossi wrote: BlueThunder wrote:  Neither have any conception of how any of this will work in reality, but we need to DO something, reality be damned!  They would have some great debates on Planet Unicorn in the Flying Spaghetti Monster galaxy.  
The optimist would look at this and hope that those without a clue how to do things would come up with some alternative solutions not previously tried.
The realist will understand that any way of doing things outside of the current systems won't ever have a chance of working since the system is designed to keep fresh ideas and thinking from being implemented.


Well there also is checks and balance and this pesky Constitution to work around, so some elements of the current system work quite well and are the only things saving us from totalitarian rule.  Our government was designed to resist change, which isn't always a bad thing, but obviously sometimes can be.  In the cases of Trump and Sanders, I say thank God for it.

Last edited on Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 11:41 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2016 11:47 pm
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Spatulapup

 

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it will be one of the biggest jokes in History if this guy becomes president. It will be a disgrace. He is a rotten person, he acts like he is still in high school. 2 years ago he was hosting a reality tv show and publicly calling Rosie O Donnell a "fat pig". He is sexist, racist, and the list goes on. He says he is going to do this and that but has no plan to do it. People need to wake up.

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 Posted: Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 12:25 am
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DaNkinator



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thunderbolt wrote: DaNkinator wrote: .

  ...your so called Messiah would be a liberal socialist too, considering that's what he taught most of the time (there's dozens of passages that show otherwise, but those get ignored too).



Such as?

Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4, Jesus specifically supported Mosaic law and reiterated it in those passages.  Cursing one's parents is punishable by death.

Not to mention how he said that any non-believers would be crushed to death by his hand.   So loving!

But if you need more examples, they're definitely out there. 

Yeah, the old testament advocates violence, but the Jews today do not follow the scripture to the letter. I believe that's called evolution. Sadly, in muslim countries, their laws are based on the Koran. Playing the equivalency card is beyond laughable. Countries with a Christian majority are usually the countries that give their citizens unlimited freedoms. You can't say that about muslim countries. Once thing I noticed about good liberal atheists like you is that if someone is criticizing Christianity, either your type is silent or they join in. When Islam is criticized, that's when the ol "Christianity is just as bad" card comes out.
Both you and Rossi addressed this as an evolution of the practices and so forth.  And to an extent, that is true.  But again, that goes back to my original point that Christians especially (and it's funny that you pointed out Jews in your response), pick and choose what to apply in their beliefs.  Those practices evolved because they were primitive and that was somewhat acknowledged, yes.  However, that begs the question, why bother to follow this religion at all if you can just abandon parts of it to suit your modern beliefs?

And for the record, in case you missed it, I feel the same way about Islam as Christianity.   But to say that unlimited freedoms is granted is "beyond laughable" as you say... How is what a woman does with her own body being dictated by laws, most commonly driven by religious beliefs, giving someone unlimited freedom?  Or by attempting to attempting to circumvent laws in regards to the rights of the LGBT community?  Just a couple of examples.



Last edited on Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 12:28 am by DaNkinator

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 Posted: Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 12:54 am
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srossi

 

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DaNkinator wrote: Both you and Rossi addressed this as an evolution of the practices and so forth.  And to an extent, that is true.  But again, that goes back to my original point that Christians especially (and it's funny that you pointed out Jews in your response), pick and choose what to apply in their beliefs.  Those practices evolved because they were primitive and that was somewhat acknowledged, yes.  However, that begs the question, why bother to follow this religion at all if you can just abandon parts of it to suit your modern beliefs?


That's a different question but thank God (no pun intended) they do.  The hypocrisy of the religious is well-known but hypocrisy is a step up from following violent and arcane practices to the letter of the law.  It comes down to comfortable living.  When you're in NYC or Paris or whatever and you've got a wife and kids and a big screen TV and all this other stuff to occupy your time, you're not too concerned about what the Bible or Koran said 2000 years ago.  When you're living in a shack and starving to death and have state-controlled media manipulating your every thought and blaming others for your conditions, there's not a lot else to do but pray things get better and your enemies get smited, or smitten, or whatever the proper conjugation is.  People in America believe in these fairy tales because in the back of their minds they're worried about what happens after they die and they need to hedge their bets, but people in the Middle East have bigger problems.  Why not blow yourself up when your life sucks anyway and hope for the best after you die? 



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 Posted: Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 01:10 am
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srossi wrote: HBF wrote: Rubio, Cruz, Kasich and Carson need to drop out now.

Kasich and Carson likely will within a week or two.  I guess the other two might as well stick around.  Cruz scored a few big victories yesterday and Rubio still has his home state primary in Florida coming up with lots of delegates on the line.

Carson is about to drop out, although he can't even be clear about that.  Facebook post from an hour ago:


I have decided not to attend the Fox News GOP Presidential Debate tomorrow night in Detroit. Even though I will not be in my hometown of Detroit on Thursday, I remain deeply committed to my home nation, America. I do not see a political path forward in light of last evening’s Super Tuesday primary results. However, this grassroots movement on behalf of “We the People” will continue. Along with millions of patriots who have supported my campaign for President, I remain committed to Saving America for Future Generations. We must not depart from our goals to restore what God and our Founders intended for this exceptional nation.

I appreciate the support, financial and otherwise, from all corners of America. Gratefully, my campaign decisions are not constrained by finances; rather by what is in the best interests of the American people.

I will discuss more about the future of this movement during my speech on Friday at CPAC in Washington, D.C.

Last edited on Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 01:11 am by srossi



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 Posted: Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 01:27 am
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Spatulapup wrote: it will be one of the biggest jokes in History if this guy becomes president. It will be a disgrace. He is a rotten person, he acts like he is still in high school. 2 years ago he was hosting a reality tv show and publicly calling Rosie O Donnell a "fat pig". He is sexist, racist, and the list goes on. He says he is going to do this and that but has no plan to do it. People need to wake up.
You just described at least 75% of all the Presidents we've elected. 



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 Posted: Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 01:49 am
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Married Jo wrote: Spatulapup wrote: it will be one of the biggest jokes in History if this guy becomes president. It will be a disgrace. He is a rotten person, he acts like he is still in high school. 2 years ago he was hosting a reality tv show and publicly calling Rosie O Donnell a "fat pig". He is sexist, racist, and the list goes on. He says he is going to do this and that but has no plan to do it. People need to wake up.
You just described at least 75% of all the Presidents we've elected. 

I must've been sick that day in history class when they taught us about the time Harry Truman called Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig.

I also loved Thomas Jefferson's appearances on "Housewives and House Slaves of Monticello".

Last edited on Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 01:51 am by dogfacedgremlin34



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 Posted: Thu Mar 3rd, 2016 01:53 am
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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: Married Jo wrote: Spatulapup wrote: it will be one of the biggest jokes in History if this guy becomes president. It will be a disgrace. He is a rotten person, he acts like he is still in high school. 2 years ago he was hosting a reality tv show and publicly calling Rosie O Donnell a "fat pig". He is sexist, racist, and the list goes on. He says he is going to do this and that but has no plan to do it. People need to wake up.
You just described at least 75% of all the Presidents we've elected. 

I must've been sick that day in history class when they taught us about the time Harry Truman called Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig.

I refuse to believe that Truman never at least called Mamie Eisenhower a "beastly scurrilous wench". 



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