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martini
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I kind of got to thinking about the national promotions the other night and wrestlers who were always in the main event picture, but never were the "guy" the company hung its hat on.

The most glaring inclusion to me was none other than The Undertaker. Here's a guy who worked on top for the better part of two decades, but never was the guy the company hitched its horse to.

When he started out, the guy was Hulk Hogan. Later, it became Bret Hart. Then Diesel for a year. Then HBK before yielding to Stone Cold, The Rock and John Cena.

Yet, he was always there and working with those guys and in the main event picture.

Big Show also comes to mind as one of these types.

Anybody else you can think of?

WCW-wise, I'd say the company carriers were Flair, Sting, Flair again, Hogan, the nWo, Goldberg (briefly) and that's about it.

Again, the Giant comes to mind there.

For that matter, Andre the Giant was also there at the top of the card, but never the guy. Randy Savage may be another because even though he was champ for a year, he was always in Hogan's immense shadow and never really "the guy."

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Billy Robinson comes to mind in his AWA prime.

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martini wrote: I kind of got to thinking about the national promotions the other night and wrestlers who were always in the main event picture, but never were the "guy" the company hung its hat on.

The most glaring inclusion to me was none other than The Undertaker. Here's a guy who worked on top for the better part of two decades, but never was the guy the company hitched its horse to.

When he started out, the guy was Hulk Hogan. Later, it became Bret Hart. Then Diesel for a year. Then HBK before yielding to Stone Cold, The Rock and John Cena.

Yet, he was always there and working with those guys and in the main event picture.

Big Show also comes to mind as one of these types.

Anybody else you can think of?

WCW-wise, I'd say the company carriers were Flair, Sting, Flair again, Hogan, the nWo, Goldberg (briefly) and that's about it.

Again, the Giant comes to mind there.

For that matter, Andre the Giant was also there at the top of the card, but never the guy. Randy Savage may be another because even though he was champ for a year, he was always in Hogan's immense shadow and never really "the guy."

How about Big Dust?  He basically is in the Andre category - during his prime, he traveled everywhere, and while he was based in a lot of places, he wasn't "the guy" that carried a company.  Most of what you mention is "current product" stuff, such as post '84 the Wrestlemania era.  But then you mentioned Andre, which is why I went with the Dream.  But if you simply look at 1984 and newer as the time when territories started to disappear, the biggest guy that you didn't mention was Luger.  Lex was given the mantle when Flair got fired/quit.  But had this not have happened, Luger would have never been "THE guy".  After this era failed, and I was at a Meadowlands card with Luger on top that drew maybe 500 people on a night when all tickets were $7 or $11, he went to WWF and from that point on was never better than upper mid card.

Many people argue that Andre and Dusty didn't need the belt in order to sell tickets.  I would put Undertaker in that category as well.  After he went back to being the Deadman, he sold tickets just by being advertised.

martini
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Superstar wrote: martini wrote: I kind of got to thinking about the national promotions the other night and wrestlers who were always in the main event picture, but never were the "guy" the company hung its hat on.

The most glaring inclusion to me was none other than The Undertaker. Here's a guy who worked on top for the better part of two decades, but never was the guy the company hitched its horse to.

When he started out, the guy was Hulk Hogan. Later, it became Bret Hart. Then Diesel for a year. Then HBK before yielding to Stone Cold, The Rock and John Cena.

Yet, he was always there and working with those guys and in the main event picture.

Big Show also comes to mind as one of these types.

Anybody else you can think of?

WCW-wise, I'd say the company carriers were Flair, Sting, Flair again, Hogan, the nWo, Goldberg (briefly) and that's about it.

Again, the Giant comes to mind there.

For that matter, Andre the Giant was also there at the top of the card, but never the guy. Randy Savage may be another because even though he was champ for a year, he was always in Hogan's immense shadow and never really "the guy."

How about Big Dust?  He basically is in the Andre category - during his prime, he traveled everywhere, and while he was based in a lot of places, he wasn't "the guy" that carried a company.  Most of what you mention is "current product" stuff, such as post '84 the Wrestlemania era.  But then you mentioned Andre, which is why I went with the Dream.  But if you simply look at 1984 and newer as the time when territories started to disappear, the biggest guy that you didn't mention was Luger.  Lex was given the mantle when Flair got fired/quit.  But had this not have happened, Luger would have never been "THE guy".  After this era failed, and I was at a Meadowlands card with Luger on top that drew maybe 500 people on a night when all tickets were $7 or $11, he went to WWF and from that point on was never better than upper mid card.

Many people argue that Andre and Dusty didn't need the belt in order to sell tickets.  I would put Undertaker in that category as well.  After he went back to being the Deadman, he sold tickets just by being advertised.
 

I forgot that Luger was ever the guy in WCW, lol.

That wasn't a good time for the company. I just kind of lumped it as part of Sting's run as the guy.

I think you put Andre, Dusty and Taker in the "attraction" barrel. They were always going to sell tickets, but never really were the top guys in any national company, which was what I based this on.

Certainly, Dusty was a top guy in some of the territories, especially Florida, but he wasn't ever that guy in Crockett. He was the guy who faced and chased the guy.

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Arn and Tully through their association with Flair.

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srossi wrote: Arn and Tully through their association with Flair.

As great as the Horsemen were, Flair was the only one I ever considered a main-eventer.

martini
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Kriss wrote: srossi wrote: Arn and Tully through their association with Flair.

As great as the Horsemen were, Flair was the only one I ever considered a main-eventer.

Ditto.

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From around 2000-2002, both WCW and WWE tried to make Scott Steiner "the guy", but he faded out quickly. When he came to WWE, it seemed like they were trying to set him up as Triple H's long-term foil. Then Royal Rumble 2002.

WCW kinda' hung their hat with Booker T in 2000, but his run was fairly brief, in retrospect. When he came to WWF/E in 2001, he always seemed to be involved in the main event scene, but they never really ran with him. It's debatable if "King Booker" in 2006 qualifies as making him "the guy".

Going back to the 80's, "Iceman" King Parsons seemed to be one who was usually up there, but never the clear #1.

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Sting was a top face but I never saw him as the marquee player even though he is who I associate with WCW. He had 7 world / international title reigns with 2 lasting over 120 days and the rest were very short. He wasn't even booked as a dominate US Or Tag champ. Sting was often booked to fight monsters; Vader, collosal Kongs, avalanche or grudge match type attraction spectacles like the convict or Jake Roberts.

Sting was also booked to be the most naive wrestler in the world. How can someone be so clueless and be the alpha?

Last edited on Mon Sep 11th, 2017 07:48 pm by Franchise

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martini
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Franchise wrote: Sting was a top face but I never saw him as the marquee player even though he is who I associate with WCW. He had 7 world / international title reigns with 2 lasting over 120 days and the rest were very short. He wasn't even booked as a dominate US Or Tag champ. Sting was often booked to fight monsters; Vader, collosal Kongs, avalanche or grudge match type attraction spectacles like the convict or Jake Roberts.

Sting was also booked to be the most naive wrestler in the world. How can someone be so clueless and be the alpha?

Um, Hulk Hogan anyone?

Didn't see the Savage turn coming. Didn't see the Orndorff turn coming, etc., and so forth.

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martini wrote: Franchise wrote: Sting was a top face but I never saw him as the marquee player even though he is who I associate with WCW. He had 7 world / international title reigns with 2 lasting over 120 days and the rest were very short. He wasn't even booked as a dominate US Or Tag champ. Sting was often booked to fight monsters; Vader, collosal Kongs, avalanche or grudge match type attraction spectacles like the convict or Jake Roberts.

Sting was also booked to be the most naive wrestler in the world. How can someone be so clueless and be the alpha?

Um, Hulk Hogan anyone?

Didn't see the Savage turn coming. Didn't see the Orndorff turn coming, etc., and so forth.


I think it pretty much taken as canon that Sting is the most naive wrestler in the world. It's hard to name someone who Sting teamed with who DIDN'T turn on him. 

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Kriss wrote: srossi wrote: Arn and Tully through their association with Flair.

As great as the Horsemen were, Flair was the only one I ever considered a main-eventer.


I think that Tully could have been the top guy if they had the Horseman turn on Flair and have him chase Tully for the belt.

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Razor Ramon in WWF

Davey Boy Smith during his heel run in WWF

martini
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Kriss wrote: martini wrote: Franchise wrote: Sting was a top face but I never saw him as the marquee player even though he is who I associate with WCW. He had 7 world / international title reigns with 2 lasting over 120 days and the rest were very short. He wasn't even booked as a dominate US Or Tag champ. Sting was often booked to fight monsters; Vader, collosal Kongs, avalanche or grudge match type attraction spectacles like the convict or Jake Roberts.

Sting was also booked to be the most naive wrestler in the world. How can someone be so clueless and be the alpha?

Um, Hulk Hogan anyone?

Didn't see the Savage turn coming. Didn't see the Orndorff turn coming, etc., and so forth.


I think it pretty much taken as canon that Sting is the most naive wrestler in the world. It's hard to name someone who Sting teamed with who DIDN'T turn on him.

Lawler in Memphis kind of fits that bill, too.

Flair is the one guy I can remember turning on Sting like 100 times. I don't remember so many others. The Flair thing was kind of comical. It was kind of a "that which I love always hurts me" type of vibe.

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martini wrote: Kriss wrote: martini wrote: Franchise wrote: Sting was a top face but I never saw him as the marquee player even though he is who I associate with WCW. He had 7 world / international title reigns with 2 lasting over 120 days and the rest were very short. He wasn't even booked as a dominate US Or Tag champ. Sting was often booked to fight monsters; Vader, collosal Kongs, avalanche or grudge match type attraction spectacles like the convict or Jake Roberts.

Sting was also booked to be the most naive wrestler in the world. How can someone be so clueless and be the alpha?

Um, Hulk Hogan anyone?

Didn't see the Savage turn coming. Didn't see the Orndorff turn coming, etc., and so forth.


I think it pretty much taken as canon that Sting is the most naive wrestler in the world. It's hard to name someone who Sting teamed with who DIDN'T turn on him.

Lawler in Memphis kind of fits that bill, too.

Flair is the one guy I can remember turning on Sting like 100 times. I don't remember so many others. The Flair thing was kind of comical. It was kind of a "that which I love always hurts me" type of vibe.


Luger and Hogan come to mind.

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martini wrote: 
Lawler in Memphis kind of fits that bill, too.



I always thought Lawler presented the vibe that he knew what COULD happen but was taking the chance for whatever he was trying to get done.
Sting just seemed like "Hey he's good now! NO WAY will this not work out great."
Different character makeup.



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