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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 12:26 am
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All I know is screw insane criteria, if you’re one of only 4 rock bands with multiple diamond albums you’re a HOF lock IMO..



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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 08:02 pm
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John Prine is a folk singer/songwriter, and a pretty good one, if not a bit quirky. The guy has been an indie darling since the 70's. Has a pretty decent collection of awards.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 10:36 am
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- Def Leppard - definitely yes. They sold several metric tons worth of albums. Not without its controversy though. I firmly believe Pete Willis should be up there. Do you ignore Vivian Campbell who has been with them (and everyone else seemingly) for well over 20 years?

- Devo - as far as originality goes. A definite yes. They have a boatload of great tunes and were indeed very popular in the late 70's and 80's. Borderline choice.

- Janet Jackson - Janet was a super-duper star for a while almost in the same ballpark as Michael. She was gutsy enough to experiment with different genres of music and was a fashion icon. Maybe

- John Prine - I went over to KKKlassics to see if Crimson Danny was salivating at the thought of this guy going in. Surprisingly he wasn't. If Dan Chernau doesn't think he's good enough, WongLee doesn't think he's good enough

- Kraftwerk - even Kraftwerks moms don't like Kraftwerk. The Fuhrer would have thrown these guys in Treblinka and have been done with them.

- LL Cool J - the guy was a massive star in his day. Decent actor too. But then you have the age old argument do colored hippity hoppity guys belong in a R8R HOF.

- MC5 - everyones kneejerk reaction is usually...YES, YES, HELL YES. But can you name one song besides Kick Out the Jams? Plus that song was only famous because they used the word motherfucker. Yeah they influenced a subgenre of music that was never that big to begin with. Neckbearded critics from the 70's through the 90's thought these guys were revolutionary but me, I'll take the Stooges anytime.

- Radiohead - probably yes because they were huge. Not a fan at all. However, millions are so that trumps me.

- Rage Against the Machine - sure. Great songs, great live band. But keep in mind, these guys aren't revolutionaries along the lines of Che and Pancho Villa. They are millionaire rock stars who sleep on mattresses stuffed with hundred dollar bills.

- Roxy Music - loved these guys in the 70's. Great, great albums and fashion icons. They will not make the cut though.

- Stevie Nicks - Stevie is just an enormous talent. Her solo albums are easily as good as anything Mac put out. I would vote yes.

- The Cure - too depressed to type anything

- Todd Rundgren - as a producer this is a no brainer. As a performer, totally meh.

- Rufus & Chaka Khan - I would vote yes. No, my "white guilt" is not making me do so. I say these guys at Shea Stadium in 1975 and they rocked as hard as any of their contemporaries. Everyone in this band were elite level musicians. Very enjoyable to listen to and watch on stage. Plus, for the decade of the 70's, Chaka Khan was the hottest woman on the planet. That was until her manager kept giving her two-fer coupons to Arbys.

- The Zombies - why?



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 01:02 pm
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My God, Wong is ready to put 98 Degrees into the HOF, and maybe Nick Lachey as a solo act too. 

Last edited on Thu Oct 11th, 2018 01:02 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 01:18 pm
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srossi wrote: My God, Wong is ready to put 98 Degrees into the HOF, and maybe Nick Lachey as a solo act too. Ok I'll play. Which parts of my post did you not agree with?



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 02:29 pm
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srossi
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WongLee wrote: srossi wrote: My God, Wong is ready to put 98 Degrees into the HOF, and maybe Nick Lachey as a solo act too. Ok I'll play. Which parts of my post did you not agree with?
I just think you're putting in almost everyone.  Just because someone was good or popular for a period of time doesn't mean they are HOF worthy.  Chaka Khan shouldn't sniff the HOF IMO.  Janet Jackson was never in the same stratosphere as Michael Jackson and is best remember for a nip slip.  I remember LL Cool J being somewhat popular in some circles, but "massive star"?  And again, I love Stevie Nicks and her solo stuff is good, but does that constitute her going into the HOF twice?  Is it a massive injustice if Stevie Nicks is simply a HOFer once with the band she's most famous for being in and does not suddenly become the equivalent of John Lennon?



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 03:24 pm
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Not arguing that Def Leppard was popular, but their "body of work" was basically two albums-- Pyromania and Hysteria.

When someone goes to see Def Leppard, today, they want to hear stuff from those two albums....and maybe "Bringing on the Heartache". Who the hell wants to hear "Let's Get Rocked" or "Me and my Wine"? The immense popularity of those two albums may actually work against them.

What may also hurt them is that I don't recall them being much of a influence or being praised for their technical prowess. "Yeah, I was inspired by Phil Collen and was blown away by his solo on Pour Some Sugar On me"...said nobody ever.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 03:48 pm
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srossi
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Erick Von Erich wrote: Not arguing that Def Leppard was popular, but their "body of work" was basically two albums-- Pyromania and Hysteria.

When someone goes to see Def Leppard, today, they want to hear stuff from those two albums....and maybe "Bringing on the Heartache". Who the hell wants to hear "Let's Get Rocked" or "Me and my Wine"? The immense popularity of those two albums may actually work against them.

What may also hurt them is that I don't recall them being much of a influence or being praised for their technical prowess. "Yeah, I was inspired by Phil Collen and was blown away by his solo on Pour Some Sugar On me"...said nobody ever.

When I first got MTV, they played "Let's Get Rocked" ad nauseum.  It was a successful album, and super hyped, but didn't have staying power of their two classics from the '80s. 

Regarding Phil Collen, it's funny because Joe Satriani personally picked him to join his annual G3 tour featuring guitar masters, and was universally mocked for it.  He had to defend the decision and basically threw Def Leppard under the bus by saying, "The guy is a total virtuoso, but he's holding back because he's in a different kind of band."  If Satriani thinks he's that great, I won't argue with him,  but his playing on Def Lep songs is nothing ground-breaking.  It's fair to say that Def Lep is not technically respected, for whatever that's worth (and it's usually not worth much). 

Last edited on Thu Oct 11th, 2018 03:49 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 04:26 pm
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srossi wrote: When I first got MTV, they played "Let's Get Rocked" ad nauseum.  It was a successful album, and super hyped, but didn't have staying power of their two classics from the '80s. 
"Let's Get Rocked" and its album "Adrenalize" came out in March, 1992. That was weird timing, because it was right after the huge grunge explosion of late 1991, plus other "alternative" bands, like RHCP, were growing in mainstream popularity. If it had been released even a year earlier, "Adrenalize" would've been huge. Yet it still proved successful...maybe out of habit. Think it had 4 singles that kept it on the radar until early 1993.
Def Leppard still did well, and even had an AOR hit in the summer of 1993 with "Two Steps Behind" from the Last Action Hero soundtrack. Probably wasn't until the fall of 1993 that their mainstream popularity declined, thanks to the "Beavis & Butt-head effect", when it became "cool" to trash 80's metal bands. I don't remember B&B specifically slamming Def Leppard, but the overall "pop metal/ radio friendly/hair band" thing was ridiculed.
Sorry. Don't mean to go off on a tangent. I just like talking about 80's/90's rock and especially metal.


And hey... to open a whole new can of worms: I'd put Blue Oyster Cult in the R&R HOF over any of this year's nominees.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 05:57 pm
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Erick Von Erich wrote: srossi wrote: When I first got MTV, they played "Let's Get Rocked" ad nauseum.  It was a successful album, and super hyped, but didn't have staying power of their two classics from the '80s. 
"Let's Get Rocked" and its album "Adrenalize" came out in March, 1992. That was weird timing, because it was right after the huge grunge explosion of late 1991, plus other "alternative" bands, like RHCP, were growing in mainstream popularity. If it had been released even a year earlier, "Adrenalize" would've been huge. Yet it still proved successful...maybe out of habit. Think it had 4 singles that kept it on the radar until early 1993.
Def Leppard still did well, and even had an AOR hit in the summer of 1993 with "Two Steps Behind" from the Last Action Hero soundtrack. Probably wasn't until the fall of 1993 that their mainstream popularity declined, thanks to the "Beavis & Butt-head effect", when it became "cool" to trash 80's metal bands. I don't remember B&B specifically slamming Def Leppard, but the overall "pop metal/ radio friendly/hair band" thing was ridiculed.
Sorry. Don't mean to go off on a tangent. I just like talking about 80's/90's rock and especially metal.


And hey... to open a whole new can of worms: I'd put Blue Oyster Cult in the R&R HOF over any of this year's nominees.

1991-1993 was the period when '80s metal bands who were already huge (GNR with the "Use Your Illusion" double album, Metallica with "The Black Album", Bon Jovi with "Keep the Faith", Aerosmith with "Get a Grip") were still doing their thing and having tons of success with it, while second- and third-tier '80s metal bands were absolutely being eviscerated by grunge and had absolutely no idea how to cope.  It was complete culture shock when everything was selling in 1989-1990 even if it sucked and then 1-2 years later, these newer or less talented bands that record companies had been fighting over were completely tossed to the curb, couldn't sell, got no advertising or touring money, and got dropped by their labels right after signing.  Warrant came out with their best album ever, "Dog Eat Dog", in April 1992.  This thing would've been huge 2 years earlier, but it died on the vine, and it was so damn good. 

Those few years were a very weird time because you could see the change coming, it already had come, but Guns N' Roses and Metallica were selling out stadiums on their co-headlining tour (this little song called "Enter Sandman" was doing fairly well) and right below that level all their contemporaries were seeing their pictures replaced by Nirvana's and Peal Jam's in the corporate HQ of the record labels.  But Nirvana and Pearl Jam were not the enemy, the cream always rises to the top, the problem was that the secondary grunge bands like Candlebox and Blind Melon were now getting all the attention that used to be reserved for the secondary metal bands in the copycat world of music. 

I'd put Def Leppard somewhere in the middle.  They weren't GNR but they weren't Warrant.  They had success, but they felt the pain.  By the time "Slang" and "Euphoria" came out in the late '90s, they were virtually a dead band.  They actually marketed "Slang" as a grunge album, which was as embarrassing as that time KISS tried to do disco in the '70s.  It was a brutal period for them and just about everyone else who didn't have the good sense to fade away.  Then time went on and nostalgia kicked in and they were able to make a living again playing their '80s material.  At this point, everything '80s is hot again and Def Leppard and Journey just had a very successful arena tour this summer where they played "Let's Get Rocked" and "Two Steps Behind" and every other song predated those.  They will absolutely never play a song live from their last 6 albums, which covers 1996-2015.  Never.  They might never make another album again either.  There's no money in it, and no market for it.  Fans who sell out Def Leppard shows to hear "Hysteria" won't buy a new album from them.

Last edited on Thu Oct 11th, 2018 06:21 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 06:50 pm
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On the topic of Warrant and "Dog Eat Dog", around 1996 or 1997, MTV News aired a documentary about the death of metal at the hands of grunge in the early 1990s. It interviewed various figures from that 1985 to 1991 glory period. Jani Lane and someone else from Warrant were among them. The two of them noted that before "Cherry Pie" came out they went to the office of their label's president for a meeting and the guy had a big Warrant poster in the office. They got the royal treatment and left pumped because they knew Warrant was getting the full court press from the label. When it came time for the follow up album, grunge had already broken big. They had another meeting with the same label president, but now instead of their poster, the spot on the wall was occupied by new darlings of the label Alice In Chains. The meeting was friendly, but not nearly as enthusiastic as the one from a few years before. On the elevator afterwards, the guys from Warrant looked at each other mournfully and agreed they were in big trouble.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 07:24 pm
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Erick Von Erich

 

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That Alice in Chains/Warrant story is interesting. When AiC first came out in late 1990 with the single "We Die Young", they were going for that hair band/pop metal vibe. I remember seeing it and thinking they were like a Lynch Mob, Babylon AD, Love/Hate or any other second/third level metal band.

Then, about 3-4 months later, they released "Man in the Box" as a single and they had changed quite a bit... even though it was the same album. So, uh, good marketing?

That summer (1991) they were the opener on the "Clash of the Titans" tour with Slayer and Anthrax. They were almost boo'ed off the stage when they played the Red Rocks (Denver) stop.

So I always thought the "grunge" thing was a little unfair, especially to AiC and Soundgarden. I feel that they were metal bands, first, and got lumped with grunge for marketing purposes.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 08:16 pm
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WongLee
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srossi wrote: WongLee wrote: srossi wrote: My God, Wong is ready to put 98 Degrees into the HOF, and maybe Nick Lachey as a solo act too. Ok I'll play. Which parts of my post did you not agree with?
I just think you're putting in almost everyone.  Just because someone was good or popular for a period of time doesn't mean they are HOF worthy.  Chaka Khan shouldn't sniff the HOF IMO.  Janet Jackson was never in the same stratosphere as Michael Jackson and is best remember for a nip slip.  I remember LL Cool J being somewhat popular in some circles, but "massive star"?  And again, I love Stevie Nicks and her solo stuff is good, but does that constitute her going into the HOF twice?  Is it a massive injustice if Stevie Nicks is simply a HOFer once with the band she's most famous for being in and does not suddenly become the equivalent of John Lennon?Rufus should definitely get real consideration. Four #1 albums in a row, Five #1 singles. Sold out tours. They co-headlined Shea Stadium as I mentioned with K.C. and the Sunshine Band in 1975. They had a nationwide broadcast on ABC Network of a massive Central Park concert they did the same year. These guys were the real deal.
Janet Jackson had one of the biggest selling albums of all time with Rhythm Nation 1814. She had #1 hit after #1 hit year after year. She was a total road dog and took out some huge tours that did sellout business here and abroad.
LL Cool J was at the forefront of raps golden age. The guy sold boatloads of records. He had a huge tour and probably the biggest rap tour of all time when he opened for Run DMC and the Beastie Boys.
Stevie Nicks is a better person than John Lennon because she never beat her wife or ignored her children, if she had any, which she didn't, but if she did she wouldn't have ignored them.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 08:40 pm
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Actually, given the current cultural climate, the Hall would probably receive a huge backlash if at least one of Stevie Nicks, Janet Jackson or Rufus & Chaka Kahn didn't get in.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2018 08:43 pm
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"Man In The Box" wasn't really marketed as grunge when it came out in early 1991. It was played on Headbangers Ball. The sleeve for the single showed the band in more of hard rock to metal stylings although not like a Poison or Motley Crue. The video with Layne Staley in that druid robe clearly played to a metal audience. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" didn't come out until the fall. "Nevermind" wasn't in the album charts until this week in 1991 and it entered at #144. The single was #5 on the modern rock charts at that point, but modern rock radio wasn't a format that had much commercial clearance or success. Once it caught on, it caught on fast though. At that point Alice In Chains was repackaged and rode the grunge wave. They might have been more at home in that genre, but that's not how they were presented when they first hit.

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