WowBB Forums Home 

 Moderated by: Ron, brodiescomics, beejmi  
AuthorPost
Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
Just got a call from my brother.  He bought Etherum last February (even though I begged him not to) at $980.  He took $8,000 out of his 401(k) which was about 20% of his balance.  Has to play tax and a penalty of 10% and has lost 80-90% of his investment.  
I am always amazed that people jump into these things after they have gone way up. Not just the cryptos but EVERYTHING.  It happens over and over again (for hundreds of years, the same pattern) and I am convinced that hedge funds pretty much exist because dumb asses like my brother are around. 
He asked me who he should sue.  I told him to look in the mirror.  He is solely responsible.  Although, it is curious that my half literate brother (he can hardly read) was somehow able to open an account.  He did this because a neighbor was up big on this currency.  Well, now the neighbor is only up a bit.  I guess he didn't sell at a thousand. 
The price could go back up.  I get that.  I also get that the underlying blackchain technology has utility.  However, the currencies have not proven to have any real utility yet.  This reminds me of cabbage patch dolls and Pokemon.  There is literally no intrinsic value.  If you are SRossi and invested early, that is awesome.  I actually know an extremely smart investment person who always has a little bit of money in 10 emerging trends, even if they don't seem logical.  It only takes one to hit to make big money. 
For the rest of us, I just don't get it.  I am amazed that people forever keep making the same mistake.  

Superstar
2018 Poster of the Year


Joined: Thu Jan 31st, 2008
Location: Isle Of, Malta
Posts: 5317
Status: 
Offline
Cryptocurrency is truly the "Widgets" that they teach you about in economics class in college. I will never be rich because I'm too cynical to buy into all the bullshit.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart.  It's finally stabilizing.  I haven't followed other coins as carefully but Bitcoin has been trading in that $6,000-$7,000 range since summer.  That's a great thing!  I bought it at $2,500 and it seems like it's fair value price is at least $6,000.  But what happened last year was nuts and everyone knew it was unsustainable.  Nothing goes up 100%, 300%, 500% in months and if it does you know it's crashing hard.  He don't take money out of your 401(k) to invest AFTER it goes up that much.  Actually, you never take money out of your 401(k) to invest in anything.  Ethereum is going to come back eventually, and Bitcoin might hit $20,000 again, but this time it will take years, not weeks.  I am extremely bullish on crypto though and very happy with my investments. 

I would actually say that this is a great time to look at Bitcoin and Ethereum again now that there has been little movement for months.  It's behaving like a real currency, but the upside is still immense.   Of course, as I always said, all it takes is a new adapter to come along and apply the blockchain technology more efficiently or in a different way, and in 50 years everyone could be using crypto but you could still lose your entire investment because Bitcoin was too soon.  Like believing in Netscape, and being right, but then Google comes along.

  

Last edited on Wed Nov 14th, 2018 06:57 pm by srossi

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart.  It's finally stabilizing.  I haven't followed other coins as carefully but Bitcoin has been trading in that $6,000-$7,000 range since summer.  That's a great thing!  I bought it at $2,500 and it seems like it's fair value price is at least $6,000.  But what happened last year was nuts and everyone knew it was unsustainable.  Nothing goes up 100%, 300%, 500% in months and if it does you know it's crashing hard.  He don't take money out of your 401(k) to invest AFTER it goes up that much.  Actually, you never take money out of your 401(k) to invest in anything.  Ethereum is going to come back eventually, and Bitcoin might hit $20,000 again, but this time it will take years, not weeks.  I am extremely bullish on crypto though and very happy with my investments. 

I would actually say that this is a great time to look at Bitcoin and Ethereum again now that there has been little movement for months.  It's behaving like a real currency, but the upside is still immense.   Of course, as I always said, all it takes is a new adapter to come along and apply the blockchain technology more efficiently or in a different way, and in 50 years everyone could be using crypto but you could still lose your entire investment because Bitcoin was too soon.  Like believing in Netscape, and being right, but then Google comes along.

  
Bitcoin is down 11% today.  Selling around $5400

Superstar
2018 Poster of the Year


Joined: Thu Jan 31st, 2008
Location: Isle Of, Malta
Posts: 5317
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991
At some point, it becomes the greater fool thing.  Not talking about you Rossi!  As it goes up in price, there is a greater fool ready to buy.  You mention baseball cards.  That is one I fell for back in 1990.  I had a part time job at school and with the GI bill paying for quite a bit, I had a few extra $.  I plowed it into a case of Score baseball cards.  They were hot!!  Then, Score decided to dump them on every Kmart in the country.  The value plummeted.  I think I spent $500.  I still have the cards of the better players and I highly doubt I could get even $200 for all of them.  However, there was a period where they were worth a lot.  
As for the cryptos, I don't know.  Anything is possible I guess.  But I don't trust anything that doesn't have instinsic value.  

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991

Well yeah, I could show you a $100 bill and you could easily say, “At the end all that you have is a piece of paper with a picture of a dead President on it.”  That’s kind of the reason people started Bitcoin in the first place. It’s not like fiat currencies in other countries have never become worthless, as recently as last year. And it’s not like that’s never happened in America before either, unless you’re willing to buy a billion Continentals from me for $1,000. 



Last edited on Wed Nov 14th, 2018 11:34 pm by srossi

Superstar
2018 Poster of the Year


Joined: Thu Jan 31st, 2008
Location: Isle Of, Malta
Posts: 5317
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991

Well yeah, I could show you a $100 bill and you could easily say, “At the end all that you have is a piece of paper with a picture of a dead President on it.”  That’s kind of the reason people started Bitcoin in the first place. It’s not like fiat currencies in other countries have never become worthless, as recently as last year. And it’s not like that’s never happened in America before either, unless you’re willing to buy a billion Continentals from me for $1,000. 



If you show me a $100 bill I'll say that you have some money.  If you show me your crypto portfolio I'll say you have a computer.  Take me to a bank and get me your bitcoins so that I can see them.  I fully admit that I'm not "future thinking" when it comes to this type of thing, but I also know that my $100 bill is going to be worth $100 tomorrow regardless of how much stuff it can buy.  Your $100 bitcoin could be worth $60 tomorrow and nothing else has changed.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991

Well yeah, I could show you a $100 bill and you could easily say, “At the end all that you have is a piece of paper with a picture of a dead President on it.”  That’s kind of the reason people started Bitcoin in the first place. It’s not like fiat currencies in other countries have never become worthless, as recently as last year. And it’s not like that’s never happened in America before either, unless you’re willing to buy a billion Continentals from me for $1,000. 



If you show me a $100 bill I'll say that you have some money.  If you show me your crypto portfolio I'll say you have a computer.  Take me to a bank and get me your bitcoins so that I can see them.  I fully admit that I'm not "future thinking" when it comes to this type of thing, but I also know that my $100 bill is going to be worth $100 tomorrow regardless of how much stuff it can buy.  Your $100 bitcoin could be worth $60 tomorrow and nothing else has changed.

Makes no sense though.  Bitcoins aren't physical so you can't see them at a bank, but I can sell them online as quickly as I sell stocks and have that money deposited into my bank account instantly.  I've done it plenty of times.  Considering that even most USD are just numbers on a computer screen now, I'm not sure where the disconnect is.  If you show me your bank balance on Chase.com I can't see the dollars either.  Of course the price of Bitcoin fluctuates more, as does any investment.  If it's worth x amount of dollars right now, I have no problem cashing out for that amount within seconds though. 

Superstar
2018 Poster of the Year


Joined: Thu Jan 31st, 2008
Location: Isle Of, Malta
Posts: 5317
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991

Well yeah, I could show you a $100 bill and you could easily say, “At the end all that you have is a piece of paper with a picture of a dead President on it.”  That’s kind of the reason people started Bitcoin in the first place. It’s not like fiat currencies in other countries have never become worthless, as recently as last year. And it’s not like that’s never happened in America before either, unless you’re willing to buy a billion Continentals from me for $1,000. 



If you show me a $100 bill I'll say that you have some money.  If you show me your crypto portfolio I'll say you have a computer.  Take me to a bank and get me your bitcoins so that I can see them.  I fully admit that I'm not "future thinking" when it comes to this type of thing, but I also know that my $100 bill is going to be worth $100 tomorrow regardless of how much stuff it can buy.  Your $100 bitcoin could be worth $60 tomorrow and nothing else has changed.

Makes no sense though.  Bitcoins aren't physical so you can't see them at a bank, but I can sell them online as quickly as I sell stocks and have that money deposited into my bank account instantly.  I've done it plenty of times.  Considering that even most USD are just numbers on a computer screen now, I'm not sure where the disconnect is.  If you show me your bank balance on Chase.com I can't see the dollars either.  Of course the price of Bitcoin fluctuates more, as does any investment.  If it's worth x amount of dollars right now, I have no problem cashing out for that amount within seconds though.
I don't do any banking at Chase.  They are thieves...

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
The point is that bitcoin can fluctuate to 0. The USD will not.

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: D-ville
Posts: 3318
Status: 
Offline
The difference for me in my lifetime is that $100 U.S. has always been worth $100 U.S. but the amount of goods and services you could acquire for that $100 U.S. has fluctuated.

Bitcoin is the opposite as it can fluctuate at a rate more violatily than the goods and services can.

At least from what I’ve seen.

Blazer
Mr Monday Night!


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 5845
Status: 
Offline
Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991

Lost my ass on Todd Van Poppel over here.  :)

The Ultimate Sin
Hall Of Famer


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Parts Unknown, Sri Lanka
Posts: 9756
Status: 
Offline
Blazer wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: There is nothing wrong with investing in crypto if you're smart. 

There's nothing wrong with investing in baseball cards if you are smart too.  But at the end of the day all you have is a piece of cardboard with a photo on it.  With bitcoin, you don't even have anything tangible - and I know it's the same as so many other things - but just one thing goes wrong and your online monopoly money is POOF gone into thin air.  At least with baseball cards, you've still got 1000 Kevin Maas rookie cards to hold in your hands when he inevitably stops hitting HRs in 1991

Lost my ass on Todd Van Poppel over here.  :)


Mo Vaughn & Damon Stoudamire for me.

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: D-ville
Posts: 3318
Status: 
Offline
TVP was all over ESPN back in the days, the way they pimped him out I thought he was going to win the Cy Young award 20 years in a row.

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
The route continues. The crypto’s are down 12 to 15% this morning.

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6695
Status: 
Offline
The whole market is getting hammered so far this week. All the indices are going to end the year flat or down at this rate.

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
Yes but the cryptos are really getting killed. Look at Etherum. That is scary over the past 9 months.

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6695
Status: 
Offline
Here's a good story about getting killed in an investment My wife's ex husband works for Yellow Roadway (used to be Yellow Freight) When I first got married I used to hear from him all the time how he was going to retire early because the value of his Yellow Stock was soaring.  Towards the end of 2004 the stock was peaking, and he kept on telling me how he had @ 1 million in his company 401k, and he'd be done at age 55.  So then the company goes and buys Roadway, and the stock plummets....and plummets...and eventually does a multiple reverse stock splits, including a 1:25. 
So move ahead to current day...the value of that $1 million in 2004....is now a cool $15...Yes you read that right....$15. The stock lost more than 99.9% of it's value. He never sold any of it...always hoping it would rebound. Guy is going to be working till he dies now.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/YRCW/

Last edited on Tue Nov 20th, 2018 03:56 pm by Principal_Raditch

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
Principal_Raditch wrote: Here's a good story about getting killed in an investment My wife's ex husband works for Yellow Roadway (used to be Yellow Freight) When I first got married I used to hear from him all the time how he was going to retire early because the value of his Yellow Stock was soaring.  Towards the end of 2004 the stock was peaking, and he kept on telling me how he had @ 1 million in his company 401k, and he'd be done at age 55.  So then the company goes and buys Roadway, and the stock plummets....and plummets...and eventually does a multiple reverse stock splits, including a 1:25. 
So move ahead to current day...the value of that $1 million in 2004....is now a cool $15...Yes you read that right....$15. The stock lost more than 99.9% of it's value. He never sold any of it...always hoping it would rebound. Guy is going to be working till he dies now.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/YRCW/
We had a friend who was a senior accountant for Internet Capital Group (ICGE) at the turn of the century.  She had a load of stock options at something like $10.  The stock goes up to $300 or a bit more and my wife begs her to exercise and sell at least half.  She never did.  Wound up worthless.   Just asked my wife about this - it was 7000 shares.  $2.1m and maybe a bit more.  Had the lottery ticket and didn't cash it in. 

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: D-ville
Posts: 3318
Status: 
Offline
I don’t expect much out of my 401k and never will. It’s something that’s there like my HSA and I think about both once a year.


I made a choice awhile back to invest in real estate and that’s the course I’m going to keep.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
Principal_Raditch wrote: The whole market is getting hammered so far this week. All the indices are going to end the year flat or down at this rate.
Cryptos shouldn’t follow the conventional market. Logic says that with the market plummeting people should be pulling out and investing in crypto for an inverse effect. But clearly that hasn’t been the case. They have to put their money somewhere though. 

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: The whole market is getting hammered so far this week. All the indices are going to end the year flat or down at this rate.
Cryptos shouldn’t follow the conventional market. Logic says that with the market plummeting people should be pulling out and investing in crypto for an inverse effect. But clearly that hasn’t been the case. They have to put their money somewhere though. 
If the marketing plummeting then investors typically go to cash.  They don't go to a speculative risk asset.  The cryptos were not around during the last bear market so perhaps that will happen.  I would doubt it though. Capital preservation becomes to primary motivator for investors. 

katook



Joined: Tue Sep 21st, 2010
Location: In A Trailerpark Filled With Rednecks, North Carolina USA
Posts: 3357
Status: 
Offline
Stocks and Cyrptocurrencies and investments are nothing more than rich people playing games with each others money, and suckering the poor and working class into propping up the shell game, a few will "win" and get rich while most will lose their asses and wonder what the fuck happened to their money.

Rich people will always be rich, and they will always be able to manipulate regular people into playing their games, it's really no better than suckering poor folks into playing the lottery hoping for that giant payoff, when in fact the best bet is to save your cash, and don't buy anything on credit to start with.

I truly do not understand how sane rational people work their asses off and put their money and future into the hands of people who are quite literally playing games of chance with it every single day.

broke



Joined: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008
Location: Bolton, ON
Posts: 3132
Status: 
Offline
The allure of "easy money" is too great to resist for some.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
katook wrote: Stocks and Cyrptocurrencies and investments are nothing more than rich people playing games with each others money, and suckering the poor and working class into propping up the shell game, a few will "win" and get rich while most will lose their asses and wonder what the fuck happened to their money.

Rich people will always be rich, and they will always be able to manipulate regular people into playing their games, it's really no better than suckering poor folks into playing the lottery hoping for that giant payoff, when in fact the best bet is to save your cash, and don't buy anything on credit to start with.

I truly do not understand how sane rational people work their asses off and put their money and future into the hands of people who are quite literally playing games of chance with it every single day.

This is exactly the attitude that keeps a lot of poor people poor. 

katook



Joined: Tue Sep 21st, 2010
Location: In A Trailerpark Filled With Rednecks, North Carolina USA
Posts: 3357
Status: 
Offline
It also keeps us out of debt and fiscally responsible.

Rule #1 is if you do not have the cash money for something, do not purchase it, you end paying damn near double what something is worth when you use credit

Rule #2 is that a good, well maintained used vehicle is just as good as the new $40,000 car, I get it if you are rich and have more money than sense, but otherwise why go into debt over something as trivial as having to keep up with the Joneses? If it gets you from point A to point B, that's what it's for.

My 2004 Honda Odyssey van has over 250K miles on it, and I would trust it right now to go to California or anywhere else in the country, and I paid cash for it.

Rule #3 is to save at least 10% of your money every week, put it up somewhere and don't squander it on frivolous stuff like a new 60" TV or a heavy duty stereo, the show looks jus just as good on my $250 40" TV as it does on someone elses 60"4k theater

Rule #4 is don't waste money on buying a house. The so called "American dream" is deader than great grammas clit the government can steal your house and land at will, and you don't own it anyways, the bank does, thinking it is yours is an illusion.

Rent a place that is big enough for your needs, and if he time comes to move on, do so. Just be sure to not leave owing any monies or having trashed the place, and get a good reference from the property owner in writing and you will have no problems going elsewhere.

It also makes sense to be able to relocate without being burdened by a mortgage, especially in the economy these days where jobs are here today, gone tomorrow you need to be able to go where the money is

about 2 years ago I started to follow these simple rules and stopped playing the game, I sure as Hell am not "rich" but I have enough cash saved up that if I lost my job or became disabled tomorrow, or just decided to sit on my ass and be lazy that I could pay all of my bills for a year, that is good enough for me.



Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: D-ville
Posts: 3318
Status: 
Offline
I think “a lot” is an over statement. Their are plenty of people that used to be rich that would have been better off not investing and instead putting everything in bank accounts and cd’s (not the music kind).


For every person who bought apple at the right time and held on probably 10 bought Aol at the wrong time and held on too long.


Crypto’s are weird and a large portion of the United States doesn’t trust them. I don’t know anyone in my real life who owns bitcoin and I know a rather economically diverse group.


The stock market is a funny thing and investment firms / brokers can be even funnier.

katook



Joined: Tue Sep 21st, 2010
Location: In A Trailerpark Filled With Rednecks, North Carolina USA
Posts: 3357
Status: 
Offline
Franchise, I guess it comes down to what works for people and what doesn't work, as well as luck.

Personally I would rather live within my means and be debt free than live in the big house on top of the hill and be in debt that totals more than I make in a years time.


I'm not saying it's wrong for people to try to better themselves, but really, if you owe money on something it does not belong to you it belongs to someone else, every single thing I own belongs to me and only me, and I like it that way.

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: D-ville
Posts: 3318
Status: 
Offline
I don’t totally disagree with you Katook; we live within our means and have been fortunate over the last few years and hopefully outside of a car payment will be debt free by the end of 2019.

We aren’t crypto people and outside of our marginal 401k contributions we have mostly focused on paying down our house. We save for a rainy day and try not to waste. Next year will be our first real vacation and probably the last for many years.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
I’m just saying that literally the only way to move from one class to another is through investments, whether it’s starting your own business, or getting involved in property, stocks, whatever. The idea that you can generate serious wealth by working 9 to 5 is silly. Once upon a time you could get to a certain level at least by doing that, but in the last 30 years that barely even exists anymore. Poor people work their asses off in retail and stay poor, middle class people work their asses off in some desk job and stay middle class, etc. Generating wealth for others will never generate wealth for yourself. Of course there’s a risk to investing, you don’t make money without taking a risk.

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: I’m just saying that literally the only way to move from one class to another is through investments, whether it’s starting your own business, or getting involved in property, stocks, whatever. The idea that you can generate serious wealth by working 9 to 5 is silly. Once upon a time you could get to a certain level at least by doing that, but in the last 30 years that barely even exists anymore. Poor people work their asses off in retail and stay poor, middle class people work their asses off in some desk job and stay middle class, etc. Generating wealth for others will never generate wealth for yourself. Of course there’s a risk to investing, you don’t make money without taking a risk.All true.  However, people and institutions move $ to assets with less risk during times of increased volatility.  I see no way they move to an asset with zero intrinsic value.  All these coins are now making lower lows.  Could that change?  Sure.  My sense is that the people that drove the prices to their highs in Jan and Feb have all made their $ and have bolted.  There are no quarterly disclosures.  Big players could be selling and talking it up at the same time.  
I said this when Bitcoing was at 15,000 and I still believe it today - I wouldn't invest a dime because this asset class doesn't meet my criteria for investment.   I am not afraid of risk but this all seems to be a shell game to me.  

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
I also get what you are saying about 9-5. In Jan of 2000 I took out my entire 401(k) to fund my new business. Everyone told me not to do that. However, my other options were not appealing. I wanted to own 100% of the business.

Yea, very few can build wealth with a 9-5 job. Still, not sure crypto is the answer either.

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 6695
Status: 
Offline
So I researched this before on what % of households have liquid assets worth $1 million or more not including home value. There's not a set number, but the consensus seems to be somewhere @ 7-9%. So even as a whole having a million, while not like 20 or 30 years ago, still separates the overwhelming majority of the country fiscally.

Now my wife and I do ok. Combined we make more than 90% of households annually, but we're at the bottom end of that range and the gap between us and the truly wealthy is also a world apart. But even for us to get to this point....our house payed off, retirement and investment accounts that should be able to replicate 80% of our current income at retirement puts us in a safer spot than I realize most of the country is in. It took me though being consistent since my 20's in selecting certain stocks to move in/out of . In Kansas City real estate just doesnt move like other markets...which is great for people buying a house, but not good for rental units or reinvesting in comparison to larger urban centers. If all I had done was dump $$ in bonds or conservative funds there's no way we'd be where we are just based on our income. The problem I see at work is that there are a lot of people earning good combined incomes with their spouses, but who will never be able to replicate it come retirement. They might make 150-200k combined in a city where living is cheap, but here they are in their 50's and have maybe 100k saved, and have no clue that once they retire, they'll be bringing in 1/4 of what they were once earning and forced to readjust their lifestyle.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
As the stock market continues to have a historically bad December, major institutional funds are moving back into crypto. Bitcoin is back over $4,000 and Ethereum was around $125 last time I checked.

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
Yea, I noticed the bounce. Still wouldn't touch it. Maybe Etherum if it hits $40. No intrinsic value. Even at $125, it is down more than 85% yoy. People who know this stuff tell me Etherum is superior to Bitcoin.

Superstar
2018 Poster of the Year


Joined: Thu Jan 31st, 2008
Location: Isle Of, Malta
Posts: 5317
Status: 
Offline
Bought in Feb at $980, is now $125. That's an $855 loss per share. Took $8k out of 401k to do it means forgetting about the early withdrawal, that $8000 investment is now worth about $1000. Wow. That would completely gut me if I did that.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
Ultimark wrote: Yea, I noticed the bounce. Still wouldn't touch it. Maybe Etherum if it hits $40. No intrinsic value. Even at $125, it is down more than 85% yoy. People who know this stuff tell me Etherum is superior to Bitcoin.
It is as far as practical application goes, which is why so many are still very bullish on it.  Bitcoin still has the name recognition and is the entryway into crypto, but that could change in the next couple of years.

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
Superstar wrote: Bought in Feb at $980, is now $125. That's an $855 loss per share. Took $8k out of 401k to do it means forgetting about the early withdrawal, that $8000 investment is now worth about $1000. Wow. That would completely gut me if I did that.If you knew my brother you would not be surprised.  I purposively texted him twice not to do that because I wanted to have it in writing.  So, he did try to blame me saying I am the one with business sense and I should have told him to not do it.  I then resent the texts.  Haven't heard from him since.  I don't feel bad. I told him not to do it.  

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
A neighbor just told me a story about his son investing $20.000 in something called coin. Now his investment is worth $1500.

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
The story with my brother gets worse. When Etherum hit $87 or so and he was blaming me (despite me flat out telling him not to invest), I told him he had no real option now but to hold on and hope. I thought he had. Nope. Sold out at $88. Cannot get out of his own way.

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
Ultimark wrote: The story with my brother gets worse. When Etherum hit $87 or so and he was blaming me (despite me flat out telling him not to invest), I told him he had no real option now but to hold on and hope. I thought he had. Nope. Sold out at $88. Cannot get out of his own way.
LOL  What was the point of selling that low?  He already lost it all, you HAVE to let it ride at that point unless you're convinced that crypto is going to zero this year, which no way in hell it is. 

Ultimark



Joined: Sun Oct 28th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6808
Status: 
Offline
srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: The story with my brother gets worse. When Etherum hit $87 or so and he was blaming me (despite me flat out telling him not to invest), I told him he had no real option now but to hold on and hope. I thought he had. Nope. Sold out at $88. Cannot get out of his own way.
LOL  What was the point of selling that low?  He already lost it all, you HAVE to let it ride at that point unless you're convinced that crypto is going to zero this year, which no way in hell it is. 
He's a fucking moron with money.  Always has been, always will be.

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: D-ville
Posts: 3318
Status: 
Offline
Buy high sell low that’s the way

Big Garea Fan

 

Joined: Wed Mar 4th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 2565
Status: 
Offline
This is one of the big reasons why I am leery of cryptocurrency:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/05/tech/quadriga-gerald-cotten-cryptocurrency/index.html
Hong Kong (CNN Business)The death of a Canadian entrepreneur has left a huge stash of cryptocurrencies locked off from the people who own them.Quadriga, Canada's biggest cryptocurrency exchange, said it's unable to gain access to $145 million of bitcoin and other digital assets after Gerald Cotten, its 30-year old CEO and co-founder, died of complications arising from Crohn's Disease while traveling in India.Many of the digital currencies held by Quadriga are stored offline in accounts known as "cold wallets," a way of protecting them from hackers. Cotten is the only person with access to the wallets, according to the company.

The unusual case highlights the risks investors face looking after their assets in the thinly regulated industry. Cotten's death has plunged Quadriga into crisis and left it struggling to figure out how to refund more than 100,000 of its users.On Tuesday, the company said it was granted creditor protection in the Nova Scotia Supreme Court as it tries to sort out its financial mess."For the past weeks, we have worked extensively to address our liquidity issues, which include attempting to locate and secure our very significant cryptocurrency reserves held in cold wallets," Quadriga said in a statement on its website. "Unfortunately, these efforts have not been successful." Cotten's widow, Jennifer Robertson, said that the laptop that Cotten used to run the currency exchange is encrypted, according to a copy of her affidavit posted online by cryptocurrency news site CoinDesk."I do not know the password or recovery key," she said. "Despite repeated and diligent searches, I have not been able to find them written down anywhere."
The company has hired tech experts in an attempt to hack into Cotten's laptop and other devices to retrieve the missing cryptocurrencies, but Robertson warned that at least some of them "may be lost."Quadriga, which is based in Vancouver, also owes about 70 million Canadian dollars ($53 million) in cash that it's unable to pay back, she said, citing difficulties accessing funds through the traditional banking system.The Nova Scotia court appointed financial services firm Ernst & Young as an independent monitor that will oversee Quadriga's efforts to resolve its financial problems.The Canadian High Commission in New Delhi told CNN that it was aware of Cotten's death and had "provided consular assistance," but declined to reveal further details.While the case is unusual, it isn't the first time the cryptocurrency industry has been hit by security concerns. Hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of digital currencies have been stolen by hackers over the past few years. The spectacular boom and bust in the prices of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have presented a quandary for governments around the world, which have taken differing approaches in trying to regulate their use.

Janet DiGiacomo, Jethro Mullen, Sugam Pokharel and Ahiza Garcia contributed to this report.

Last edited on Thu Feb 7th, 2019 07:03 pm by Big Garea Fan

srossi

 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 48483
Status: 
Offline
Ultimark wrote: srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: The story with my brother gets worse. When Etherum hit $87 or so and he was blaming me (despite me flat out telling him not to invest), I told him he had no real option now but to hold on and hope. I thought he had. Nope. Sold out at $88. Cannot get out of his own way.
LOL  What was the point of selling that low?  He already lost it all, you HAVE to let it ride at that point unless you're convinced that crypto is going to zero this year, which no way in hell it is. 
He's a fucking moron with money.  Always has been, always will be.

Pretty funny that he sold before the recent surge.  It was really on fire there for a couple of weeks.  Poor guy.



UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2013 Data 1 Systems